Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

The image was that of a photographer who was Renting" his images "subscribe to my photography".  The rental was for access to viewing the jpeg.  Rental stops...access stops.

It's called an analog   

Which shows that humour is not universally understood in the same way as it was intended. Let's hope we collectively misunderstood Adobe's sense of humour ...

Cheers,
Bart

[Janne Aavasalo]

Thanks Janne,
As I said, I only bought ONE CC seat - a second seat requires a second Adobe ID - I only want to manage ONE Adobe ID.

From what I've read you can activate/deactivate the software on machines without limitations - I've tried it, and so far it works fine.

Michael Schoenfeld

No problem, the part about two activations made me think you had two subscriptions.

And if the activations/deactivations are unlimited, then you should be able to bounce around the subscription between your computers (pretty much the only positive news I've heard about the whole CC business).

[Michael Schoenfeld]

That's why I asked that question Janne - I'm actually interested in a real answer.
Maybe this is the wrong "bar" to try a get a shot of whiskey in right now........

Thanks for replying.

Michael Schoenfeld
www.michaelschoenfeld.com

[BJL]

I'm thinking colleges, universities on why they would buy into the "CC" thing. I know some colleges would upgrade every 2nd upgrade.

As someone who handles software installation in a computer lab at an academic institution, I think that

• academic sysadmins and also professors will like getting software like Photoshop through an academic discount bulk licensing subscription rate --- so long as the rate is reasonable --- for the virtue of being able to easily keep all computers up-to-date at the same version, and having the costs completely regular and so more easily budgeted. That is the way we try to handle all our other widely-used software, like MS Office, Matlab, and Mathematica. And the worries about not being able to edit files anymore if the license is allowed to expire is not much of a problem for an academic institution --- at worst it is the students who will need to either get PS access after graduation, or make sure to save their finished work to a format like JPEG of TIFF.
  
• The rate _will_ be kept somewhat reasonable, because software makers like to get students and teachers hooked on their software, and maintain the image that their product (Word, Excel, Photoshop, Matlab, Mathematica) is an indispensable "must know", so that graduates then want their employers to provide the same software, at far higher commercial prices.
  
• On the other hand, if the software is for photography students rather than, say, graphic design students, my perception is that Lightroom is already becoming the more common choice.
  

P. S. The academic sysadmins I know also prefer downloadable installs and updates to 20th century tools like spinning, scratchable plastic discs.

[AFairley]

Remember: Adobe is not our friend. Adobe is here to squeeze you for every last penny they can and they'll do everything in their power to leverage their virtual monopoly to that end.

Anyone who thinks otherwise should think back to when Adobe abandoned the skip-over upgrade policy.  The only reason for that was to maximize revenues by forcing people to upgrade every cycle or have to periodically purchase full versions of the software.  There were no technical issues involved at all.

[nemo295]

If you sell me a print, I own the print.  I can view it whenever I want, forever.  I can sell it or pass it down in my will.  I have perpetual rights to that print.

I do not have any copyrights to the image on the print.  I cannot reproduce it or create additional copies.

In my view, the print is similar to a perpetual license of software.  I can use it whenever I want, forever.  I do not own any copyrights.  Using the copyright verbage...and continuing on ad nauseum...was just a "fox" to muddy the argument in Adobe's favor.

Great points. When you're buying a copy of a copyrighted work or a "perpetual" software license you're buying a set of rights to those things. Those rights include the right of sale in the secondary market. You don't own the copyright for the image in the print you bought, but you do have the right to resell that print for whatever you can get for it. So to with a "perpetual" software license. You don't own the software's copyright, but you have the right to use that software under the terms of its EULA. And you can also uninstall that software and legally sell your license to someone else, thereby transferring the rights to a new owner. Creative Cloud effectively ends all end user equity with regards to Adobe's software.

[Janne Aavasalo]

If you cancel your subscription you can still show your images.

If you cancel your subscription you cannot use PS CC to make new images.

Or edit the current ones. I quite often do re-edits and refinements to my files, so there the "losing work" part comes in.

And since when has Photoshop been about showing images? I'm not worried about that at all, but I am worried about what will happen to the layered work files.

[Janne Aavasalo]

That's why I asked that question Janne - I'm actually interested in a real answer.
Maybe this is the wrong "bar" to try a get a shot of whiskey in right now........

Thanks for replying.

Michael Schoenfeld
www.michaelschoenfeld.com

Well have you tried to activate the CC package on two computers? I'd say that that's the fastest way to find out.

I've been reading so many sources that I can't remember where I read it, but at some point there was a mention of the CC package firstly being somewhat OS agnostic, so you can install it on Mac and Pc and if I recall right, it's great for someone who has a Windows Pc at work and a Mac at home, so I don't think they would mention that if it would involve activation bouncing between the two machines. And also, I don't think you need to have a Mac and a Pc for this, two of the same kind should work just fine.

Also, remember to report back if you get a definitive answer

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

I quite often do re-edits and refinements to my files, so there the "losing work" part comes in.

Same with me. The tools for e.g. tonemapping have become so much better, that I indeed redo parts of my previous works. I would not have the time to redo all of them from scratch.

Cheers,
Bart

[Janne Aavasalo]

Edits create a new image.

So you are using the later version that has those much improved features, to create new images.

I really don't get what's so difficult about this for you to grasp. Either you are trolling or just refusing to understand what we are trying to say.

If I open a layered TIFF or PSD - file, do some work on it and save it, it's not a new image, it's the same image which I'm working on. I'm not exporting nearly all the images that I work on to "a final and baked form" eg. jpg or equivalent.

Now if I use CC version of say Photoshop to create the file, use the latest and greatest techniques available, they won't open in "legacy" versions of Photoshop if I cancel my subscription.

Is this scenario clear enough for you?

Edit: On top of that, if you are a new customer and go with the CC subscription, you won't even have a version to fall back to.

[jwstl]

That's why I asked that question Janne - I'm actually interested in a real answer.
Maybe this is the wrong "bar" to try a get a shot of whiskey in right now........

Thanks for replying.

Michael Schoenfeld
www.michaelschoenfeld.com

I'm guessing you'd get more appropriate replies if you started a new thread with your questions.

[digitaldog]

Now if I use CC version of say Photoshop to create the file, use the latest and greatest techniques available, they won't open in "legacy" versions of Photoshop if I cancel my subscription.

This is PURE speculation! Where did Adobe say that CC will save formats (TIFF, PSD) that can't be opened in legacy versions? Even if they didn't, even if they will, Adobe has been very good about keeping legacy options open, down to silly things like legacy Contrast and Brightness settings. We've seen no less than three Process Versions in ACR and all are backwards compatible.

IF and WHEN Adobe provides a process in CC that will save in some new TIFF or PSD format that can't be accessed in earlier versions, raise the alarm. Especially if Adobe did this and didn't tell you (which I would find quite shocking and out of tradition).

Of course the grassy knoll conspiracy folks will say this is just around the corner.

[nemo295]

I really don't get what's so difficult about this for you to grasp. Either you are trolling or just refusing to understand what we are trying to say.

If I open a layered TIFF or PSD - file, do some work on it and save it, it's not a new image, it's the same image which I'm working on. I'm not exporting nearly all the images that I work on to "a final and baked form" eg. jpg or equivalent.

Now if I use CC version of say Photoshop to create the file, use the latest and greatest techniques available, they won't open in "legacy" versions of Photoshop if I cancel my subscription.

Is this scenario clear enough for you?

Edit: On top of that, if you are a new customer and go with the CC subscription, you won't even have a version to fall back to.

Pretty clear to me. The moral of the story is, from my point of view: get yourself a "perpetual" license for CS6 while you can, and take a hard look at other photo editors, e.g., Capture One, when CS6 no longer fills your needs. There will be alternatives that aren't subscription based. And after today they will have a major incentive to improve their products and win over customers who are disgusted with Adobe's predatory licensing.

[Alan Smallbone]

This is PURE speculation! Where did Adobe say that CC will save formats (TIFF, PSD) that can't be opened in legacy versions? Even if they didn't, even if they will, Adobe has been very good about keeping legacy options open, down to silly things like legacy Contrast and Brightness settings. We've seen no less than three Process Versions in ACR and all are backwards compatible.

IF and WHEN Adobe provides a process in CC that will save in some new TIFF or PSD format that can't be accessed in earlier versions, raise the alarm. Especially if Adobe did this and didn't tell you (which I would find quite shocking and out of tradition).

Of course the grassy knoll conspiracy folks will say this is just around the corner.

I think what they meant was that new things, like new adjustment layers and new tools and smart filters will not open in legacy versions. Like for instance you can apply camera raw in CC as a filter or soon will, what happens if you open a layered PSD file and CS6 is unable to register the layer, you have lost an edit. So that is not a conspiracy theory but an actual item that can happen and may or may not concern people. If I take a current image with a vibrance adjustment layer and try to open it in CS then I get an error message and blank layer, so those edits are effectively gone.

Alan

[digitaldog]

I think what they meant was that new things, like new adjustment layers and new tools and smart filters will not open in legacy versions.

And this has happened in the last 20 years when? The file will not open? The flattened TIFF part of the TIFF file isn't accessible?

[Janne Aavasalo]

This is PURE speculation! Where did Adobe say that CC will save formats (TIFF, PSD) that can't be opened in legacy versions? Even if they didn't, even if they will, Adobe has been very good about keeping legacy options open, down to silly things like legacy Contrast and Brightness settings. We've seen no less than three Process Versions in ACR and all are backwards compatible.

IF and WHEN Adobe provides a process in CC that will save in some new TIFF or PSD format that can't be accessed in earlier versions, raise the alarm. Especially if Adobe did this and didn't tell you (which I would find quite shocking and out of tradition).

Of course the grassy knoll conspiracy folks will say this is just around the corner.

I actually didn't mean that the files wouldn't open in CS6 or even earlier versions, it's already been stated that if you use a "compatible" format to save the images, they will.

This is provided that you’ve saved your files to compatible formats with your older applications or other 3rd party Applications.

But if you use techniques or tools that are introduced in the newer versions of say PS CC, I'd say it's highly unlikely that those edits would trickle down gracefully when opened with a "legacy" version of PS.

Or do you think this is also just speculation from the grassy knolls?

[Michael Schoenfeld]

Well have you tried to activate the CC package on two computers? I'd say that that's the fastest way to find out.

I've been reading so many sources that I can't remember where I read it, but at some point there was a mention of the CC package firstly being somewhat OS agnostic, so you can install it on Mac and Pc and if I recall right, it's great for someone who has a Windows Pc at work and a Mac at home, so I don't think they would mention that if it would involve activation bouncing between the two machines. And also, I don't think you need to have a Mac and a Pc for this, two of the same kind should work just fine.

Also, remember to report back if you get a definitive answer

I've tried it on 4 computers so far - works fine. Laptop stays activated; I simply launch the CC software on the "other" computer, use it, deactivate, and move on. The laptop stays activated as it should. Could it glitch? sure - do I have a "plan B"? Of course......

Michael Schoenfeld

[Wayland]

I'm an Adobe customer and I bought in to all the non destructive editing stuff. Fat lot of good my layered files are going to be now.

I also bought into the DNG for long term file security stuff too. Why on Earth would I trust Adobe with that format anymore?

I'm also one of Mr Schewe's customers having bought a couple of his books. I'll let you work out for yourself if I'll ever buy one again.

I'll have to keep using CS6 so long as my current machine and OS support it which should give me the time I need to learn some new software I guess.

So my questions are simple. What is now going to be the safest method of archiving my RAW files and does anyone produce a good book on the Gimp?

[Michael Schoenfeld]

This is what CC says when de-activating.



Anyone ever used an ilok? Waves audio software? Only the dongle is in a cloud.

Hell, my email is in the cloud; this conversation is in a cloud. My calendar is in the cloud.

Perfect? No, but I'm OK today.

And I have Pixelmator, Lightroom, and Aperture on my computer. I also have 3 camera bodies.

Michael Schoenfeld

[Gulag]

So my questions are simple. What is now going to be the safest method of archiving my RAW files and does anyone produce a good book on the Gimp?

Keep your RAW files as what they are.

To learn GIMP, all you need is right here: http://www.gimp.org/tutorials/