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Author Topic: This is quite amusing..  (Read 26170 times)

Rob C

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Re: This is quite amusing..
« Reply #60 on: April 22, 2013, 12:02:35 pm »

Hmmm...you realise that you have cogently argued that everyone in the EU, including the UK, should speak German (as the most widely spoken native tongue in Europe) and convert to Catholicism (as the most widely practised religion in Europe)! Why should the English have an ‘identity’ different or separate from the rest?

Maybe if you put yourself in the shoes of a minority within a greater system, you will understand why they their distinct ‘identity’ matters to them. The recurrent English political crises about "Europe" illustrate this.

Ray


1. German, Italian, English, French... as long as we all eventually understand it, I wouldn’t be concerned very much. Regarding religion, it hardly counts anywhere in Europe these days beyond the symbolic; the RC church makes its biggest strides in South America and wherever poverty exists.

However, part of the problem is that none of the languages native to present Italy, France or Spain were universal in those territories: they were mainly independent, warring states and principalities that came together to form countries through conquest, and a dominant language thus established. Granted many shared versions of the ‘romance’ tongue, but a lot of those dialects were/are totally indescipherable to folks outwith the region. Perhaps no more than twenty-five years ago, the local Mallorquin dialect of Catalan, as spoken in Pollensa, was somewhat different to that in Sa Pobla, a little town but about eight klicks away; that little town now is under siege with north Africans and I bet that in another twenty-five years, the proportionate use of Spanish will be greatly diminished.

2. But I am in a minority. As a British national in Mallorca that’s my position. I do not seek out other Brits as a matter of course because, frankly, we have little in common worth sharing: I can’t drink anymore, I gave up smoking in ’66 and, being a photographer my sense of values is light years removed from that of most of them.

The latter point already served as a wedge, a spacer between myself and a lot of neighbours even back in the days when I lived in Scotland. My work, travels and ambitions were alien to pretty much all of them; my wife was subjected to the boring repeat question of how she felt with her husband working alongside young, pretty women whenever he worked, and photo trips abroad were always going to be the prelude to a divorce. It never happened; we loved each other but that didn’t seem to count. She would turn the question round, and ask whether the ladies posing it were worried about their husband’s secretary with whom he shared all of every working day... I suspect that’s the lot of many of us who ‘dare to be different’ for whatever reason: we never really fit too well into the general scheme of things.

Whew! I managed to return this to photography!

;-)

Rob C
« Last Edit: April 22, 2013, 12:05:49 pm by Rob C »
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JoeKitchen

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Re: This is quite amusing..
« Reply #61 on: April 22, 2013, 12:45:51 pm »

I am for English becoming the common language.  First, it sounds much nicer than most languages; maybe French has us, but compared to Italian, German, Dutch (God help us if Dutch ever became the language of choice), etc.  And this is not just my opinion, but that of many second English language speakers.  Second, aside from being tied with Russian, English has almost three times as many words as any other language.  There is much more depth in English (and Russian, however if you feel Russian should be the language of choice, refer back to my first point). 

 :D
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Wayne Fox

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Re: This is quite amusing..
« Reply #62 on: April 22, 2013, 01:04:29 pm »

This has to be the record for the most off topic I have seen a thread go.  Time to move it over the coffee corner maybe?
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Rob C

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Re: This is quite amusing..
« Reply #63 on: April 22, 2013, 01:31:24 pm »

This has to be the record for the most off topic I have seen a thread go.  Time to move it over the coffee corner maybe?


Might that not suggest it has a Turkish element yet untapped?

;-)

Rob C

Doug Peterson

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Re: This is quite amusing..
« Reply #64 on: April 22, 2013, 01:39:06 pm »

This has to be the record for the most off topic I have seen a thread go.  Time to move it over the coffee corner maybe?

Can you really consider it off topic when it started so far outside of the realm of useful discussion?

If anything a discussion of linguistic anthropology is more relevant to photographers producing photography than the nonsense the thread was started to discuss.

My opinion: a language belongs to those who use it the most and do the most with it. Can Portugal really be considered the center of gravity in the Portugese universe when there are more Portugese speakers of and greater commerce transacted in Portugese in the country of Brazil than in Portugal?

Wayne Fox

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Re: This is quite amusing..
« Reply #65 on: April 23, 2013, 01:25:00 am »

Can you really consider it off topic when it started so far outside of the realm of useful discussion?

point taken ...
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Rob C

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Re: This is quite amusing..
« Reply #66 on: April 23, 2013, 03:36:35 am »

Can you really consider it off topic when it started so far outside of the realm of useful discussion?

If anything a discussion of linguistic anthropology is more relevant to photographers producing photography than the nonsense the thread was started to discuss.

My opinion: a language belongs to those who use it the most and do the most with it. Can Portugal really be considered the center of gravity in the Portugese universe when there are more Portugese speakers of and greater commerce transacted in Portugese in the country of Brazil than in Portugal?




God help the HQ of any multi-national corporation, then.

;-)

Rob C

FredBGG

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Re: This is quite amusing..
« Reply #67 on: April 23, 2013, 05:18:49 am »

I am for English becoming the common language.  First, it sounds much nicer than most languages; maybe French has us, but compared to Italian, German, Dutch (God help us if Dutch ever became the language of choice), etc.  And this is not just my opinion, but that of many second English language speakers.  Second, aside from being tied with Russian, English has almost three times as many words as any other language.  There is much more depth in English (and Russian, however if you feel Russian should be the language of choice, refer back to my first point).  

 :D

English sounds nicer than other languages?

Hmmm My native language is English but I am fluent in Italian, French and Spanish.

Have you heard President Bush or his lap dog Anthony Blair.

Personally I find Italian, (it's amny colorful dialects), French and Spanish to be far more interesting colorful and remarkably beautiful.

I also find that they have words that are sipmply non existant in English.

Find me an English work for diripmetaio. The word for a neighbor that lives across the street, but right infront of your house.

English does have many words, but many are just another more or less snobbish ways of saying the same thing as a more commonly used word.
It's not like the English language can express notions that other languages cannot.

Italian dialects are simply facinating with very different ways of saying things in relation to their local culture and history.

I owned a country house in a town where a knife was described as a sgullotta and across the river it was described as a cultiello.
A chair, segiolla and cadregha.

Then the really funny thing is spelling. Spelling in English and American English is to say the least disgusting. Only in America do they make a big deal about the Spelling Bee. A dumb ass competition to see who can remember all the stupid irregular ways English words are spelled becasue some have drunk dimwhiited aristoctrat spelled it that way first.

An interesting thing is I have no problem at all translating things from English into Italian, however so many times there just isn't a way to say certain things that are sai in Spannish of Italian in English.

I think that the rather presuptuous assumption that English is the uber language leads to so many problems fro a political and cultural standpoint.

Another huge difference I have found is how language is used.

For example in Italy a greeting is only a question if time is going to be given for a response.
Other wise it's a friendly Ciao.

None of this walking right past you and blurting out how r you doin' ? ... and be gone before you can reply.

It also seems that despite the alleged abundance of English works it seems that 16 year old american girls
have to use the work 'like' , 'amazing' and 'awsome' like they were on sale at walmart. ;)

And then there's one of my pet peeves. Using completely worng words because it makes you cool or apear to be and expert.

Like glass instead of lens when taking about photographic lenses.

Anyway time to brush up on that Spanish as it my soon be the main language here in the USA.

A language really shows it's beauty in how it is and can be used.

The final movement of Pergolesi's Sabat Mater for example shows how emotional Latin Mediterranean languages can be in a way that a cold language like English just can't.

http://youtu.be/mNt13Vw-K6Q This is the first movement.

  
« Last Edit: April 23, 2013, 12:19:31 pm by FredBGG »
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ondebanks

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Re: This is quite amusing..
« Reply #68 on: April 23, 2013, 05:43:56 am »

Of the languages I am familiar with, I think that Italian is easily the nicest on the ear. I travel to the Bologna region annually so I speak a little Italian. I admire the precision of the diction, the efficiency of the spelling (not a syllable nor a letter is wasted), the consistency of the grammar (virtually no 'exceptions' to the rules, whereas English is riddled with them), and the musicality of the expression.

Ray
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AreBee

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Re: This is quite amusing..
« Reply #69 on: April 23, 2013, 08:01:37 am »

Quote from: Rob C
Gaelic? I have lived in Scotland about half my life, and I never yet ran into anyone speaking that language for real.

Then you need to explore the country more, for Gaelic is spoken as a first language in parts of it.

Quote from: Rob C
Kilts? Are you joking? They are the national joke except at some weddings.

You are entitled to your opinion. However, a multitude of people from around the world would disagree strongly with it, of which I am one.

The kilt enjoys extrordinary popularity around the world. It is instantly recognisable as a symbol for Scotland and I highly doubt that the majority of those who see it consider it a "national joke".

The kilt is considered by many to be the smartest form of formal dress there is. Some people not born or domiciled in Scotland consider its appearance so highly that they elect to wear it at their wedding, an odd compliment to pay for a "national joke".

Quote from: Rob C
Some of the Welsh, as with the Irish and Scots have the same problem of seeking an ‘identity’ different or separate from the national; why? None of that serves to do anything but isolate in a world that, in reality, needs closer integration and common understanding not only of language but of hopes and religion if it is to survive.

Which "national" identity do you refer to?
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artobest

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Re: This is quite amusing..
« Reply #70 on: April 23, 2013, 08:18:27 am »


From where I stand, any language that becomes the only language is no bad thing. Speech is supposed to be about communication: when we can all communicate with one another without confusion, then we will be that tiny step closer to avoiding trouble.


Language is how we see, describe and make sense of the world. Each time a language dies, a unique worldview dies with it.
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Rob C

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Re: This is quite amusing..
« Reply #71 on: April 23, 2013, 09:31:58 am »

Language is how we see, describe and make sense of the world. Each time a language dies, a unique worldview dies with it.


Really? The same view can be expressed in any language. Because some phrases are impossible to word in exactly and literally the same manner in alternative languages does not imply that the sense is not communicated perfectly accurately. Esperanto was a good shot at it, at least for the Latin-based language groups. Could have made a promising start...

Rob C

MrSmith

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Re: This is quite amusing..
« Reply #72 on: April 23, 2013, 10:56:33 am »

"Like glass instead of lens when taking about photographic lenses"

So it's not just me then. I can't stand the use of this word it's an Americanism that seems to have spread with the Internet. It's nearly as annoying as bokeh.
Thankfully nobody has tried to use it in shops/rental or an assistant here in the U.K. Yet....
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Martin Ranger

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Re: This is quite amusing..
« Reply #73 on: April 23, 2013, 12:07:42 pm »


Really? The same view can be expressed in any language.

I am not so sure about this. Having spent almost half my life in Germany and the other half in the US, I find there are phrases that are virtually impossible to translate accurately. Sure, you can communicate the same general idea in both languages, but you will be missing a nuance or detail that is in my opinion impossible to convey in the "wrong" language, in some instances because no perfect equivalent exists in others because of common cultural connotations which are hard or impossible to translate. And German and English are two closely related languages belonging to people with very similar cultures, so I would imagine it to be even more of a problem with languages and cultures that are less related.
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Martin Ranger
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ondebanks

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Re: This is quite amusing..
« Reply #74 on: April 23, 2013, 06:53:01 pm »

Beemer is also the standard slang for a BMW in Ireland. And Merc (pronounced Merk) for a Mercedes-Benz, Jag for a Jaguar, Rolls for a Rolls-Royce. It only seems to be the luxury brands that get these nicknames. But sorry, Lexus - you're just called Lexus!

Ray
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Martin Ranger

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Re: This is quite amusing..
« Reply #75 on: April 23, 2013, 07:41:27 pm »


We in germany like to create our own english sounding vocabulary, we call a video projector a "beamer".

Don't even get me started on this  :) I will never be able to call a mobile phone "handy".
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Martin Ranger
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Bryan Conner

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Re: This is quite amusing..
« Reply #76 on: April 24, 2013, 12:39:09 am »

Hi Everyone,

what can I do to drive this discussion more off-topic than it already is? Perhaps I can start with a quote from one of my favorite films of all times:

Michele Monet: "Do you speak french?"
Hrundi V. Bakshi: "Enough to bring myself into trouble."

Or a small story: A few years ago I was invited to give a talk about photography at a canadian university. I was asked beforehand what I would need to give the talk. I replied, I only need a beamer because I will bring my laptop. – Silence on the other side of the phone line. Then the reply in a strange tone. I can get you a Volkswagen from a friend, but not a beamer. I replied, I don't need a car, just a beamer. After some back an forth it turned out:
We in germany like to create our own english sounding vocabulary, we call a video projector a "beamer". And some canadians call their BMW cars "beamer" (same word different meaning). So the canadian guy thought this crazy german wants a BMW to drive to the university.
 
Is this already off topic enough?

Language is not made that we understand each other, it is only there to fill the silence.

You all know "The Situation Is Hopeless, But Not Serious: The Pursuit of Unhappiness", 1983, by Paul Watzlawick. Don't you?

Best ;-)

Johannes

At least they did not give you "ein Gift" when you arrived.  :D
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Bryan Conner

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Re: This is quite amusing..
« Reply #77 on: April 24, 2013, 12:41:33 am »

Don't even get me started on this  :) I will never be able to call a mobile phone "handy".

But a mobile/cell phone is indeed handy, isn't it?   ;)
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Rob C

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Re: This is quite amusing..
« Reply #78 on: April 24, 2013, 04:37:32 am »

Beemer is also the standard slang for a BMW in Ireland. And Merc (pronounced Merk) for a Mercedes-Benz, Jag for a Jaguar, Rolls for a Rolls-Royce. It only seems to be the luxury brands that get these nicknames. But sorry, Lexus - you're just called Lexus!

Ray


In India, a Merc was the hip (for young boys) name for a Mercury, as in Ford.

I enjoy these 'debates'; at least nobody tries to frame rules for their application.

Rob C
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