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Author Topic: Epson Solvent Printers vs Ink Jet Printers?  (Read 49082 times)

digitaldog

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Re: Epson Solvent Printers vs Ink Jet Printers?
« Reply #20 on: August 13, 2013, 09:49:59 am »

And as far as the terminology goes, inkjet is becoming a little vague like the term "giclee".

Giclee was never vague IMHO, it was always a bullsh*t, marketing driven and silly term that means anything from 'squirt' to something you wouldn't use in mixed company or around children depending on who you ask <g>. Anyone using the term giclee gets points removed in my book, especially when you talk about the term and history from the two guys who put the technology on the market (Holbert and Nash).
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Stefan Ohlsson

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Re: Epson Solvent Printers vs Ink Jet Printers?
« Reply #21 on: August 13, 2013, 11:52:01 am »

Whatever, the color variation between daylight and incandescent was as much as 50%. From maybe acceptable by my galleries to No Way would I buy that. Now I'm happily printing on my own 9900.

I did a test on our Epson 70600 printer and measured RGBCMYK in MeasureTool. With the Compare function in Measure Tool you can compare this print in different light. I found a Delta E value of 2.8 on the average and a maximum of 4.65 when I compared D50 to tungsten. A little higher than you would find on an aqueous printer like Epson x900, but not that bad.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2013, 02:13:30 pm by Stefan Ohlsson »
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Doombrain

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Re: Epson Solvent Printers vs Ink Jet Printers?
« Reply #22 on: August 13, 2013, 12:26:23 pm »

I've been getting 87-90% 'spot' coverage on a 70600 (Onyx 10.2.5 CMYKcmkO, 20 pass).

Dot quality is very high easily good enough for fine art. However the GSX ink isn't as smooth as water based UC, it attacks the media which will introduce metamerism and i've also seen bronzing. Lamination will help to get over this, and any outdoor work should be laminated no matter what printer it's printed on. One point to consider is the Orange ink has a half rated life compared to the CMYKcmk.

Your biggest problem will be finding a substrate and over laminate that offered the best output/price m2.

Maintenance is very light for an outdoor printer, once a week a 7-10 min clean. If you go for a Wh/Mt then this increases to once a day.

Ilford also do a great luster effect media. I'm about to start a large photographic exhibition run using the nanosolvent Satin on a 70600 soon for a large institution to be displayed outdoors.
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Scott Martin

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Re: Epson Solvent Printers vs Ink Jet Printers?
« Reply #23 on: August 13, 2013, 04:31:17 pm »

I did a test on our Epson 70600 printer and measured RGBCMYK in MeasureTool... I found a Delta E value of 2.8 on the average and a maximum of 4.65 when I compared D50 to tungsten.
That sounds like what I'm seeing. The difference was much greater with the GS6000 inks so the Surecolor inksets are a big improvement.
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Czornyj

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Re: Epson Solvent Printers vs Ink Jet Printers?
« Reply #24 on: August 14, 2013, 09:15:39 am »

The calibration process in ONYX is not for the faint at heart and requires CMYKO 5 color profiling.

I'm so happy to hear that - I just have to profile a SCS70800+Wasatch SoftRIP. How many CMYKO patches would you recommend?
« Last Edit: August 14, 2013, 09:22:24 am by Czornyj »
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Scott Martin

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Re: Epson Solvent Printers vs Ink Jet Printers?
« Reply #25 on: August 14, 2013, 09:42:32 am »

I'm so happy to hear that - I just have to profile a SCS70800+Wasatch SoftRIP. How many CMYKO patches would you recommend?

Wasatch comes bundled with the Surecolor F series but not the S series we're talking about. I'm also not heard of a Surecolor S70800 - do you mean the S70670?

Although I've calibrated a bunch of other printers through Wasatch, I haven't worked with the Surecolor S series through Wasatch yet so I can't comment on that, except to say skip the AccuPhoto GSX mode and do a custom calibration. The secret is not in the profiling process, it's getting the ink limiting and linearization right prior to profiling (the calibration process). If you see any pooling in the profiling target patches, then you need to go back and perfect the ink limiting settings.
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Stefan Ohlsson

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Re: Epson Solvent Printers vs Ink Jet Printers?
« Reply #26 on: August 14, 2013, 10:16:49 am »

I noticed that it took about 12 hours for the inks to stabilize. When I tested my RGBCMYk patches after 5 minutes and after 30 minutes, the max Delta E 2000 value was 3. When I compared the measurement done 30 minutes after printing and a measurement done after 12 hours, the max Delta E value was 1,5. After that, the difference were minor.

It was the red, blue and black patch that showed the biggest changes.
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Scott Martin

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Re: Epson Solvent Printers vs Ink Jet Printers?
« Reply #27 on: August 14, 2013, 10:42:52 am »

Good info Stefan!
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Scott Martin
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LenR

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Re: Epson Solvent Printers vs Ink Jet Printers?
« Reply #28 on: August 14, 2013, 06:16:59 pm »

this is what a solvent printer can do:

""2011 was 705,000s/f non stop 24/7 and the machine did perform as expected. Now for 2012 this project is a little over 900,000 s/f . Machine already has 1.3million s/f on it and about to run 24/7 once again. I do have my reservations on if LX will survive the mission...

1900 hours of print time or 80 days non stop, 750 rolls of media, 2300 liters of ink, 190+ heads.



This quote is regarding an HP printer that costs in the neighborhood of $500,000.00
Don't expect anything Epson makes to be able to come close to this.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2013, 06:28:44 pm by LenR »
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LenR

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Re: Epson Solvent Printers vs Ink Jet Printers?
« Reply #29 on: August 14, 2013, 06:27:22 pm »

Scott,
Wasatch is pretty good when using N-color.
I used to do Hexachrome calibrations and profiles on a Mimaki and it was pretty nice.
They have a file you can use that helps a lot (the name slips my mind at the moment) but if you have a service contract you can ask for it.  As a matter of fact I'll bet they included it with the printer.
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Scott Martin

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Re: Epson Solvent Printers vs Ink Jet Printers?
« Reply #30 on: August 14, 2013, 09:57:24 pm »

This quote is regarding an HP printer that costs in the neighborhood of $500,000.00
Don't expect anything Epson makes to be able to come close to this.

Look at the price differential though - what can 20 $25,000 Surecolor printers do relative to that $500,000 printer?

Of course, if you need optimal productivity (speed) and lowered ink costs, a big UV curable printer is the one to have.
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Scott Martin
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Czornyj

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Re: Epson Solvent Printers vs Ink Jet Printers?
« Reply #31 on: August 16, 2013, 01:43:39 pm »

Wasatch comes bundled with the Surecolor F series but not the S series we're talking about. I'm also not heard of a Surecolor S70800 - do you mean the S70670?

Although I've calibrated a bunch of other printers through Wasatch, I haven't worked with the Surecolor S series through Wasatch yet so I can't comment on that, except to say skip the AccuPhoto GSX mode and do a custom calibration. The secret is not in the profiling process, it's getting the ink limiting and linearization right prior to profiling (the calibration process). If you see any pooling in the profiling target patches, then you need to go back and perfect the ink limiting settings.

Yes, it's S70670 - sorry for a mistake. I had calibrated a few CMYK Roland/Mutoch/Mimaki printers in the past, didn't deal with CMYKO printer yet, but there's always the first time.

I noticed that it took about 12 hours for the inks to stabilize. When I tested my RGBCMYk patches after 5 minutes and after 30 minutes, the max Delta E 2000 value was 3. When I compared the measurement done 30 minutes after printing and a measurement done after 12 hours, the max Delta E value was 1,5. After that, the difference were minor.

It was the red, blue and black patch that showed the biggest changes.
Thanks Stefan - I left the targets to dry, hope for a good effect tomorrow!
Scott,
Wasatch is pretty good when using N-color.
I used to do Hexachrome calibrations and profiles on a Mimaki and it was pretty nice.
They have a file you can use that helps a lot (the name slips my mind at the moment) but if you have a service contract you can ask for it.  As a matter of fact I'll bet they included it with the printer.
Yep, the generalTest was quite useful, it was included with the software ;)
« Last Edit: August 16, 2013, 01:46:34 pm by Czornyj »
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Marcin Kałuża | [URL=http://zarzadzaniebarwa

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Re: Epson Solvent Printers vs Ink Jet Printers?
« Reply #32 on: January 08, 2014, 10:48:57 pm »

Hi, Stefan. Now that you have had the machine for 5-6 months, would you buy it again? I'm looking very seriously at it, but wouldn't mind some feedback.
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Stefan Ohlsson

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Re: Epson Solvent Printers vs Ink Jet Printers?
« Reply #33 on: January 09, 2014, 02:47:03 am »

Hi, Stefan. Now that you have had the machine for 5-6 months, would you buy it again? I'm looking very seriously at it, but wouldn't mind some feedback.
It's been quite a steep learning curve. This printer is nothing like our other printers, all Epson x900. So it took us some time to learn how to make a good profile for different medias. We have found that some medias just don't work in this printer. It's important to get the ink limiting correct. If you don't you will never get a good profile.

Today we are very satisfied with the results. We print a lot of large format prints that are used in public spaces and for this kind of work it's fast and the prints are very satisfying.

We have used the EFI Fiery v5 RIP, but are looking for results from other RIP:s.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2014, 02:52:14 am by Stefan Ohlsson »
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