Lenses for D800 - where's the weak link?

[MichaelEzra]

Hi Erik,

I agree with your explanation on the focus difference in ZD shots, this makes sense.
In the last image in your last post comparing ZD55 to Nikon 60 - which ZD image did you use - the one shot at the farther distance (the sharper one)?

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi Michael,

Yes, the sharper one one was used, I hope. I can make mistakes! I will recheck, and also make some new plots.

Best regards
Erik

Hi Erik,

I agree with your explanation on the focus difference in ZD shots, this makes sense.
In the last image in your last post comparing ZD55 to Nikon 60 - which ZD image did you use - the one shat at the farther distance (the sharper one)?

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

I noticed that test target is at the same size. So it seems that FOV is wider on the Nikon shot. The effect would be the same as cropping the Nikon image to 4016 pixels height instead of the 4924 pixels it has. I made an MTF plot for Nikon 60, ZD55 and Nikon 60 cropped. In this case the ZD image would be slightly better than the Nikon image.

The assumption here is that the target has wedges have the same pixel sizes.

Best regards
Erik

[MichaelEzra]

Thanks Erik, this confirms my earlier qualitative impression: when comparing pixel-to-pixel ZD file to a cropped D800e file, ZD can have sharper pixels.

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

I would suggest that when we compare a higher resolution sensor with a low resolution one at actual pixel the lower resolution one is always at advantage. That way to compare eliminates the only advantage a high resolution sensor has, namely resolution.

Anyway, I hope that we have gained some understanding about how the lenses perform and you gained experience with tools to measure MTF. I also think we got some perspective on lenses versus sensor performance.

I hope you still enjoy your D800E.

For me it was an interesting experience, and my guess is that I'm going to revisit this thread and your images quite a few times.

Best regards
Erik

Thanks Erik, this confirms my earlier qualitative impression: when comparing pixel-to-pixel ZD file to a cropped D800e file, ZD can have sharper pixels.

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi Michael,

One interesting observation is that the ruler shows some color artifacts on both Nikon exposures, while the ZD doesn't.

I don't have any good explanation for this. I also think the effect may be more pronounced with LR4 than with RawTherape.

One issue that we didn't look into really is the effects of sharpening. Sharpening is very important to visual impression but it is very much to taste.


Best regards
Erik

Hi Erik,

To bypass uncertainties in use of software, I composed these comparisons of thee sharpest exposures.
In this case for all three exposures the subject in the frame occupies about the same number of pixels (I re-shot ZD file again here, even closer)
This is for the purposes of comparing pixel sharpness, while disregarding framing differences.



The same via animated overlays (view full size also):

[Fine_Art]

I've been reading this thread with interest.

The following are a few comments I made elsewhere today. They seem relevant to this thread and sum up my frustration.

I look at files from the Canon 17 & 24mm TS-E lenses and weep. If only Canon made a body that took full advantage of them.

I'd literally go out and buy a Nikon D800E tomorrow if there was a lens of around 20mm that took full advantage of the camera.

I'm even considering buying a Canon 5D111 just to use the TS-E lenses. I'm that desperate.

You might find your solution in a FF nex that allows you to use any lens you want. They have put one in their video camera so it is bound to show up on a stills camera.

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

Another full frame alternative is the Leica M. It will take R-series lenses with an adapter.

An interesting alternative may be Hartblei H-Cam or Alpa FPS for digital back owners.

Best regards
Erik

You might find your solution in a FF nex that allows you to use any lens you want. They have put one in their video camera so it is bound to show up on a stills camera.

[TMARK]

I've been using the Zeiss Hasselblad V lenses with the D800e, with a Fotodiox adapter.  Focus confirmation works, just remember that the arrows point in the opposite direction as the V lenses focus ring moves in the opposite direction of nikon.  The 80 CF, 150 CF, 50 C, 120 CF and 180 CF are outstanding.  The 80 and 150 are my two favrite portrait lenses on the D800e, and film for that matter.

I have a 60 AFd Micro and it one of the sharpest lenses I've ever used.

Have fun!  The D800 hits on so many levels, with only a few draw backs.  I wish the VF were bigger, and I wish you could change screens.  other than that, it essentially replaced (not entirely) MF digital, Leica M and Mamiya 7. 

[MichaelEzra]

I've been using the Zeiss Hasselblad V lenses with the D800e, with a Fotodiox adapter.  Focus confirmation works, just remember that the arrows point in the opposite direction as the V lenses focus ring moves in the opposite direction of nikon.  The 80 CF, 150 CF, 50 C, 120 CF and 180 CF are outstanding.  The 80 and 150 are my two favrite portrait lenses on the D800e, and film for that matter.

I have a 60 AFd Micro and it one of the sharpest lenses I've ever used.

Have fun!  The D800 hits on so many levels, with only a few draw backs.  I wish the VF were bigger, and I wish you could change screens.  other than that, it essentially replaced (not entirely) MF digital, Leica M and Mamiya 7. 

Could you post any comparative (not sharpened) images of the sharpest captures with CF lenses vs Nikon 60mm?

[Ellis Vener]

The one thing I really want changed from the D800 to it's successor is the ISO control button needs to be moved from the "rewind knob" to near the shutter release. Better SNR at ultra-high ISo settings would be nice too.

[Fine_Art]

Thanks, it's a thought, but unfortunately the NEX is the least inspiring camera I've ever used.

I think the inspiration comes from the synergy of you with the scene.  You don't need the camera for that.
It wont impress clients looking for some expensive box. Just stick a Leica label on it. Suddenly the same output will be 5X more valuable.

[Enchanter]

I use my Zeiss 100/2 ZF.2 Makro Planar on my D800E for work related product shots and it's a superb combination.

I don't rate the Nikon 35 f/2 lens at all. A much better lens for the D800 is the manual focus Nikkor 28 f/2.8 AI-S lens. It's razor sharp, particularly up close, is beautifully made and excellent for some product shots as it focuses down to an incredible 20 cm (7") and has very little distortion. 

Tomorrow I'm taking delivery of a Sigma 35 f/1.4 and hope that it lives up to all the hype.

[HarperPhotos]

Hello Enchanter,

I received the new sigma  35mm F1.4 lens Nikon mount a week or so ago and after some tests against my Nikon 35mm F1.4G I sent it back to the NZ distributor. Very soft in the corners at F5.6 and F8.0.

I would be interested in you thoughts when you have tested your version.

Cheers

Simon

[Enchanter]

Hi Simon,

That's very disappointing to hear. I'll certainly let you know how my copy performs.

[Conner999]

As TMark with Hassy lenses via adapter, do the same with M645 glass (80/1.9 C & N, 120/4, 150/2.8A, the incredible 200/2.8 APO) and Fotodiox Pro adapter on 800E and D3S with excellent results -- and a very different drawing style vs Nikon, Zeiss, etc. Have also used Hassy 110/2 FE with Canon a couple of years ago - again very nice results.

AF and auto-aperture manual focus glass are a priority for the business, but when clean copy & budget stars align, I need to re-acquire the 80/1.9 (and maybe the 200 APO), and eventually try some more Hassy (and Pentax) glass, but the 120/4 and 150/2.8A are in the "never shall be sold" category.

[Enchanter]

Hello Enchanter,

I received the new sigma  35mm F1.4 lens Nikon mount a week or so ago and after some tests against my Nikon 35mm F1.4G I sent it back to the NZ distributor. Very soft in the corners at F5.6 and F8.0.

I would be interested in you thoughts when you have tested your version.

Cheers

Simon

Hello Simon,

I received the Sigma 35mm F1.4 (Art) lens today. Tested it this afternoon on my RRS TVC-34L tripod and BH-55 ballhead, which is very stable. Well, I was stunned at how sharp this lens is especially at F5.6 and F8. It equals my Nikon 200 f/2 VR II for straight out sharpness but not for colour. After your experience with the copy you had, I was particularly interested in the corners at F5.6 and F8.0. No problem with mine. Maybe, you should try another one as you had a decentred lens by the sounds of it.

[TMARK]

One thing about the 28 AIS:  it is a stunning, complex design.  I have two copies.  My first was knocked around a bit and started blowing highlights and showing CA.  I received a quote to have it repaired and found that buying another copy would be cheaper.  The second copy had the same problem, sent them both into be repaired and they are magic lenses. 

[TMARK]

As TMark with Hassy lenses via adapter, do the same with M645 glass (80/1.9 C & N, 120/4, 150/2.8A, the incredible 200/2.8 APO) and Fotodiox Pro adapter on 800E and D3S with excellent results -- and a very different drawing style vs Nikon, Zeiss, etc. Have also used Hassy 110/2 FE with Canon a couple of years ago - again very nice results.

AF and auto-aperture manual focus glass are a priority for the business, but when clean copy & budget stars align, I need to re-acquire the 80/1.9 (and maybe the 200 APO), and eventually try some more Hassy (and Pentax) glass, but the 120/4 and 150/2.8A are in the "never shall be sold" category.

Using whatever lenses you can adapt to a Nikon or Canon is, to me, so much more interesting and flexible than the MF backs. I have an 80 1.9 and an 80 2.8.  I very much liked them both of film and MF digital.  I'll get the adapter ASAP.

[HarperPhotos]

Hi Enchanter,

Good to read that you have a good copy.

Lloyd Chambers also has written on his website about lens skew he has encountered with the Sigma 35mm F1.4 lens.

I think I will wait a few months and then try a number of Sigma 35mm F1.4 lenses and compare them to my Nikon 35mm F1.4G lens to see if there is a good version out there.

Enjoy your new lens.

Cheers

Simon