After playing with the 5DMkIII

[walter.sk]

After deciding that I could not justify the cost of the 1DX, I felt bad about stepping down from a 1D series camera to the 5DIII.  My 1DII is on its 3rd shutter box, and has about as many activations on it as it did on each of the first two shutters.  About to leave on a 3 week trip I decided to go for the 5DIII as a second camera body.  I had also considered selling all my Canon lenses and switching to the Nikon D800, but the increase in lens prices made that a dismal choice, financially.

Well, after less than 3 weeks of playing with the 5DIII to get used to it, I am tickled silly.  I shoot nature, cityscapes and occasional landscapes and birds, with a full range of lenses from 15mm fisheye though 500mm f/4.  My impressions of the 5DIII is that with the exception of 3 things: the less-rugged body, the inability to autofocus at f/8 (500mm lens with a doubler), and the maximum frame rate of 6fps, the 5DIII blows away everything else about my 1DII.

The AF is faster and more consistently accurate, and the auto exposure seems to be at least as good.  For somebody who likes to shoot inside churches and subways, the high ISO choices with much less noise makes me feel like a child in a candy store.  And when I crop down a shot with the 5DIII to the size that I would have had with the 1.3-crop with the 1DII, it has more pixels and with less noise than the 1DII!

And with the Lexar 1000X 32Gb CF card in the camera, the ability to shoot bursts of over 25 RAWs at 6fps satisfies me for when I need to hand-hold the camera for HDR's.  The in-camera shooting of multiple exposures is inspiring me to try those for creative effects that I haven't done since my pre-digital days (or is it "daze"?).

Add to that the ability to bracket from 2 to 7 shots in a bracket, which I often do for HDR's, and I now consider my 1DII as my second body.

I know many do not see the 5DIII as that much different from the 5DII, and it could be that my impressions coming from the 1DII rather than the 1DIV make the 5DIII look a lot more advanced than it really is, but I am one happy camper.  And, as far as the ruggedness of the 1D series, my being on the 3rd shutter is because the first one self destructed at about 65K activations.  I got about that on the 2nd shutter before it placed a metal strip across the frame.  And the 3rd shutter has about 60K activations on it now.  I'll be happy to use it as a backup for my 5DIII.

Oh, and after shooting all afternoon handholding the 5DIII with the Canon 100-400mm lens, I was shocked to find that without the extra pound or so of the 1dII, there was no ache or incipient cramping in my right hand!  I had been worried that without the added vertical grip the 5DIII would not be as well balanced but for my very average-sized hand it turned out to be fine, and very nicely balanced and very noticeably lighter than the 1DII.

[Robcat]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm happy to hear some good news today. Glad you're pleased with your purchase, Walter. What's the opposite of buyer's remorse? Whatever it is, guess you've got it. Enjoy.
Rob P

[Steve Weldon]

My name is Steve and I'm an equipment addict who has been clean for 9 years, 3 months, and 23 days. 

I currently use my 1dsII and 5dII and planned on using them until they fell to pieces in my hands.

I also teach workshops and my students, many of them first time DSLR users, all have newer equipment.  So I read reviews like mad, memorize and take along owners manuals, and make cheat sheets so I can remember where everything is on each model a student might have.. and what features stand out, etc..

Last week I returned from a month in Bangkok where I shot a big wedding, some portrait sessions, and the rest of the days were filled with workshops.  In 38 days I had a grand total of 5 days off.  So.. a lot of workshops.

80% of my students had newer gear than me..  In the past the 1dIV's, 1ds3's, D3's, etc, etc.. while nice, didn't show enough image quality or feature improvement for ME to want to upgrade.   After using number 5d3's and D800's and even a couple D800e's with the newest glass.. all I can say is WOW!!!   We live in great times.

I also noticed several of my most used lenses (70-200/2.8 IS, 24 II, 85 II, 300/2.8 IS II, etc, etc) have also improved to the point where I'll want to replace many of my lenses.

So what's a guy to do?

My requirements allow the 5d3 most of the time.. but I still require a heavy duty weather tight body that can take a load of abuse and has memory card backup.. so if I stay Canon I''ll be spending a lot for a 5d3, 1dx, and 4-5 new lenses.    Nikon's UI is annoying at best, but those 36mp's would be real easy to get used to if not required.. Once I get my hands on a 1dx I'll know which way to go, but from early reports the 1dx is at least the improvement over the 1d2 that the 5d3 is over the 5d2..

What I really want to know is how Canon will respond to Nikon's 36mp's..  maybe we'll know this Jan..

[K.C.]

I also noticed several of my most used lenses (70-200/2.8 IS, 24 II, 85 II, 300/2.8 IS II, etc, etc) have also improved to the point where I'll want to replace many of my lenses.
/quote]

I'd suggest you re-think the lens upgrades and do some testing first.

I was really frustrated when the new 85 II came out, felt I just had to have it. Then I rented one and tested it against my original 85 1.2. The differences are so minimal and the instances where they made any difference so infrequent that I could find no justification for upgrading.

The 70-200/2.8 was always regarded as one of Canon's best lenses. It still is. While the newer version is improved I think if you shoot something other than line charts and resolution tests you'd be hard pressed to not enjoy the shots taken with the original.

Undoubtedly the 5DIII is an upgraded camera but you have to wonder what's coming from Canon in the next 6 months. There has to be a competitor for the D800. Even if that proves to be outrageously priced it will mean a healthy market of used 5DIIIs will result.

[Steve Weldon]

I also noticed several of my most used lenses (70-200/2.8 IS, 24 II, 85 II, 300/2.8 IS II, etc, etc) have also improved to the point where I'll want to replace many of my lenses.
/quote]

I'd suggest you re-think the lens upgrades and do some testing first.

I was really frustrated when the new 85 II came out, felt I just had to have it. Then I rented one and tested it against my original 85 1.2. The differences are so minimal and the instances where they made any difference so infrequent that I could find no justification for upgrading.

The 70-200/2.8 was always regarded as one of Canon's best lenses. It still is. While the newer version is improved I think if you shoot something other than line charts and resolution tests you'd be hard pressed to not enjoy the shots taken with the original.

Undoubtedly the 5DIII is an upgraded camera but you have to wonder what's coming from Canon in the next 6 months. There has to be a competitor for the D800. Even if that proves to be outrageously priced it will mean a healthy market of used 5DIIIs will result.

1.  I'm constantly testing and comparing.. not just one sample, but because of what I do I have access t multiple samples.

2.  I'd agree optically the 85/1.2 has minimal differences.  But with this lens I want the new model for the improvement in AF speed which is significant.  The original is a very slow hunk of glass while the II version us merely slow.  Enough so that I'd choose it from the bag more often.

3.   I can't agree here.  I've used over a dozen different samples for enough time and variation of subjects, all without the lens being micro-adjusted, and seen each time a very significant difference.  Micro-adjusted I'd expect more of a difference.  Like you said, the 70-200/2.8 IS has always been a great lens.. but the II version is significantly better.

[Rob C]

Not wanting to be the fireman, but are these thoughts based on your actual printing output need or a theoretical one?

Does it matter at all if your 'students' have more expensive or later gear than you do? Isn't photo-teaching about 'how to' rather than 'look at my wonderful equipment'? If the latter, just hock everything and go to the top of the price lists and be done with it. It's seems such a lot of mental stress to try and outJones the Jones; sod the Jones, if you're a great 'teacher' then that should be why folks seek you out, not to admire your treasure chest.

Rob C

[walter.sk]

Just came across this article on DPReview concerning the AF system on newer vs older Canon cameras and lenses.  You might be interested.

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/08/autofocus-reality-part-3b-canon-cameras

[Steve Weldon]

Not wanting to be the fireman, but are these thoughts based on your actual printing output need or a theoretical one?

Does it matter at all if your 'students' have more expensive or later gear than you do? Isn't photo-teaching about 'how to' rather than 'look at my wonderful equipment'? If the latter, just hock everything and go to the top of the price lists and be done with it. It's seems such a lot of mental stress to try and outJones the Jones; sod the Jones, if you're a great 'teacher' then that should be why folks seek you out, not to admire your treasure chest.

Rob C

1.  Everything I shoot has the potential to be printed and sold so the need is there, but my observation is based on examination of the files as I haven't yet had a chance to print any of the files from this trip.   I'll get to it, but I haven't yet.   And image quality is just one factor, improved systems which enable you to get the shot would be another and is more in line with what I was thinking.   If the autofocus system is so much improved or the auto-iso system that much more user friendly, or the exposure system that much more accurate.. then you get a higher ratio of keepers.  I think these are the bigger gains I observed with the newer gear.  There were smaller gains.  Still, image quality is much improved imo.  5d3 files have more dynamic range and it appears a lighter AA filter.  D800 files.. stunning.

2.  Did I actually write anything in my post to lead you to think any of the rest?  You stated the obvious on a very elementary level and made assumptions which I didn't even hint at.  But to answer your questions no it doesn't matter as to the quality of instruction, but perhaps to the 'value' of the workshop to the student which runs into your next question where that answer would be "mostly."  

Education and practical application of different gear is an essential component of a quality workshop.  Equipment is always a large part of what a student questions you about and this is the instructors chance to help the student see what equipment is needed/important at their level of photography and ideally to be able to get some hands on with a body or lens they're considering for a future purpose.  I think making equipment available for a student to test drive adds considerable value to the workshop.  Equipment is important if you don't have any, or you have the wrong equipment for your style of photography, or if additional equipment could improve your photography and from my experience that would be virtually every student I've had.  

Some of my more astute students will ask if they can use my equipment for 100% of the workshop because they have questions and want to try different gear before making their own selections.  Imagine how nice it would have been for all of us to buy exactly what we needed, and only what we needed, the first time out..  I love it when the last part of a workshop is accompanying a student to my favourite camera shop, introducing him/her to my favourite salesperson, ensuring they get my personal discount at the store, and helping them set up their gear out of the box.  When someone is spending a large amount of money they're often nervous and unsure of themselves and worry if they'll get the right things or everything they need.  It can be a very stressful time, and having someone you trust there with you helping guide your purchases and answer additional questions is priceless.   At least imo..

[Alan Smallbone]

Walter congrats on the new camera and nice to hear some positive thoughts. I think the deal killer on the 1Dx is the lack of f8 autofocus, but I am still very happy with my 5D2 and 1D4.

Alan

[Rob C]

2.  Did I actually write anything in my post to lead you to think any of the rest?  You stated the obvious on a very elementary level and made assumptions which I didn't even hint at.  But to answer your questions no it doesn't matter as to the quality of instruction, but perhaps to the 'value' of the workshop to the student which runs into your next question where that answer would be "mostly."  

I didn't state that you had written that at all; I merely continued along the line of thought that your post suggested to me. Concern about the difference in performance between two virtually similar lenses, as raised in this thread, is indeed pixel-peeping and I have to wonder as to its value and in which context.

However, you have also answered my very elementary questions more clearly than you might have imagined, so that's fine by me.

Rob C

[Keith Reeder]

Walter,

you'd do the community a great service if you could try the "taping the pins" trick with your 500mm and 2x and report back - if it turns out that the 5D Mk III's AF works this way, lots of folk will be very happy to hear it. 

[Steve Weldon]

I didn't state that you had written that at all; I merely continued along the line of thought that your post suggested to me. Concern about the difference in performance between two virtually similar lenses, as raised in this thread, is indeed pixel-peeping and I have to wonder as to its value and in which context.

However, you have also answered my very elementary questions more clearly than you might have imagined, so that's fine by me.

Rob C

1.  This is good, you corrected yourself.

2.  Oh my, now look what you did.  I "suggested" no such thing in any stretch of a healthy imagination.  If I was to guess what happened here.. was you read into my post not that which was there, but that which reflects your own concerns and biases.  In other words preconceived grievances perhaps strengthened by a less than careful reading of my post.  Heck, I'm with you on all points and it was rather shocking to hear myself being accused of opinions contrary to my entire website full of articles where this topic is discussed time and again and years worth of columns on other sites along the same lines.  Put plainly, my opinion on these matters has been documented and not changed in years.  "Suggested?"  No.

3.  This was the point of my entire post.  Allow me to reiterate for your clarification.  I started this point basically saying that in the past I was worried way too much about equipment and now I'm different.. and supported this by saying I've used the same gear now for a long time with only one modest upgrade (5d2).. and that I hadn't seen "enough' improvement to warranty MY getting the newest gear.   But now.. after trying many copies of the newest DSLR's and lenses DO see a difference of such significance that I now want to upgrade my gear.  This should lead the reasonable person to see that I believe the differences to be quite profound and they would be correct.  I do.

I suppose your point is you don't agree.  That any differences I see must be pixel peeping and that makes me a gear head who feels inferior because I don't have the newer equipment my students own and so forth the things you said.. but I would never even suggest..

You can't tread in an on-line photography forum or discussion group or any site at all.. without noticing tens of thousands of people are buying the new gear I didn't see significant enough to upgrade to.  Sure, some will be purchased by new photographers who have never owned a camera, but most are from photographers upgrading or adding to their gear.  When I see this I can either try to tilt the windmill.. or I can accept the improvements were significant enough for THEM, and wish them the best with their new gear.. no bad attitude or thoughts required.  Just a friendly wave of the hand and the realization that my opinion ultimately is just my opinion.  No one is obligated to comply.

4.  Oh oh I know I know (my best Horshack imitation which I admit is very poor), can I tell you Mr. Kotter?  You see, this is what someone does when they really put their foot in it, can't admit it, and is desperately striving to maintain some semblance of.. well.. who cares.  The experience used to form my answers was gained through years of working with students in workshops and supported by positive and frequent feedback.  I don't expect everyone to agree, but I don't expect words to be put in my mouth either.

Geez, you took what was a good spirited fun (for me) reply to the OP and turned the tone.  I was simply agreeing that the new gear is good and I too see the value in upgrading.  A light hearted sharing of an opinion between fellow photographers.   The last thing I expected was a response such as yours.  What is it about forums that brings out the worst in people..

[Rob C]

1.  This is good, you corrected yourself.

2.  Oh my, now look what you did.  I "suggested" no such thing in any stretch of a healthy imagination.  If I was to guess what happened here.. was you read into my post not that which was there, but that which reflects your own concerns and biases.  In other words preconceived grievances perhaps strengthened by a less than careful reading of my post.  Heck, I'm with you on all points and it was rather shocking to hear myself being accused of opinions contrary to my entire website full of articles where this topic is discussed time and again and years worth of columns on other sites along the same lines.  Put plainly, my opinion on these matters has been documented and not changed in years.  "Suggested?"  No.

3.  This was the point of my entire post.  Allow me to reiterate for your clarification.  I started this point basically saying that in the past I was worried way too much about equipment and now I'm different.. and supported this by saying I've used the same gear now for a long time with only one modest upgrade (5d2).. and that I hadn't seen "enough' improvement to warranty MY getting the newest gear.   But now.. after trying many copies of the newest DSLR's and lenses DO see a difference of such significance that I now want to upgrade my gear.  This should lead the reasonable person to see that I believe the differences to be quite profound and they would be correct.  I do.

I suppose your point is you don't agree.  That any differences I see must be pixel peeping and that makes me a gear head who feels inferior because I don't have the newer equipment my students own and so forth the things you said.. but I would never even suggest..

You can't tread in an on-line photography forum or discussion group or any site at all.. without noticing tens of thousands of people are buying the new gear I didn't see significant enough to upgrade to.  Sure, some will be purchased by new photographers who have never owned a camera, but most are from photographers upgrading or adding to their gear.  When I see this I can either try to tilt the windmill.. or I can accept the improvements were significant enough for THEM, and wish them the best with their new gear.. no bad attitude or thoughts required.  Just a friendly wave of the hand and the realization that my opinion ultimately is just my opinion.  No one is obligated to comply.

4.  Oh oh I know I know (my best Horshack imitation which I admit is very poor), can I tell you Mr. Kotter?  You see, this is what someone does when they really put their foot in it, can't admit it, and is desperately striving to maintain some semblance of.. well.. who cares.  The experience used to form my answers was gained through years of working with students in workshops and supported by positive and frequent feedback.  I don't expect everyone to agree, but I don't expect words to be put in my mouth either.

Geez, you took what was a good spirited fun (for me) reply to the OP and turned the tone.  I was simply agreeing that the new gear is good and I too see the value in upgrading.  A light hearted sharing of an opinion between fellow photographers.   The last thing I expected was a response such as yours.  What is it about forums that brings out the worst in people..

Goodness me, your knickers really are in a twist! Perhaps you'd be better taking them off before you damage the family jewels; had no idea any tone had been turned, but there you go: shit happens even in the best of company.

"Not wanting to be the fireman, but are these thoughts based on your actual printing output need or a theoretical one?"

If you'd bothered to understand my first sentence (above) in my first post, you'd have seen that I was asking a simple question; however, your explosive reaction tells me that I've touched onto something best left untouched, so I shall let you cuddle it all by yourself. It really matters not a lot to me whether you do or do not buy equipment, whether you lead your students to your favourite dealer - it's not my responsibility and I feel no interest beyond that shown (I thought) clearly in the post of mine I've quoted.

"What is it about forums that brings out the worst in people.. "

Well, you tell me; you're the guy with the big problem that I don't quite see.

Relax, stay cool; it's never worth the anxiety: it's only ever an opinion at best. I'm afraid I've no idea who Horseback and Clutter might  be, so can't help you by offering an opinion on your imitation.

;-)

Rob C

[stever]

Roger's series on autofocus accuracy at lensrentals.com is quite interesting and includes testing the 5D3 with "older" and "new" lenses

even though no improvement in resolution, the 5D3 has a number of features and improvements that i find very useful (and as usual lacks a few that i would have thought to be reasonably obvious).  for low light and action photography i think the upgrade from 5D2 is worthwhile - for other uses it's difficult to justify

[Ellis Vener]

Roger's series on autofocus accuracy at lensrentals.com is quite interesting and includes testing the 5D3 with "older" and "new" lenses

even though no improvement in resolution, the 5D3 has a number of features and improvements that i find very useful (and as usual lacks a few that i would have thought to be reasonably obvious).  for low light and action photography i think the upgrade from 5D2 is worthwhile - for other uses it's difficult to justify

One often overlooked reason to consider the 5D Mark III over a 5D Mark II is the addition of a second media slot. Think: greater shotign capacity or seprating video and/or JPEGS from raws, & in camera backup.
The signal over noise improvements even at ISO 400 are enough to justify going with a 5D Mark III over the 1Ds Mark III. while bright light landscape users may not (or may) see this as an improvement anyone whoshoots in the golden hour or in pre-dawn and post sunset light will welcome it as will anyone whop uses speedlights. I do a lot of stitched pan work and like both the smaller body design over the 1Ds Mark III  and the big improvement in the preview screen.

If you look at the 5d Mk III as the successor to the nearly 5 year old 1Ds Mark III instead of just being the replacement of the 5D Mark II you'll see that dollar for dollar it is a bargain.

[DaveCurtis]

Ive just come back from  Italy, Istanbul, Santorini and Crete. I shot 6000 shots  with a 5DIII. I used four Zeiss primes and a couple of Canon L zooms. I must say the 5DIII performed flawlessly. In the past I would have taken my 1DS3 but the weight reduction of the 5D3 was most welcome. It meant I could take another Zeiss prime ;-) Manual focus confirmation with the Zeiss lenses is better with the 5D3 than the 1DS3 and autofocus was snappier especially in low light. Also the rear LCD is a huge improvement.

A bonus for me is being able to set TV and AV manually and ISO to auto. It's great for creative street shooting.

Image quality is similar to the 1DS3. I cant really see any difference except the 5d3 looks a bit smoother at high ISO.

Handling is good but not in the same league as a 1 series. Dont mention the rate button!

The 5d3 even survived the back street of Naples.

[Steve Weldon]

Goodness me, your knickers really are in a twist! Perhaps you'd be better taking them off before you damage the family jewels; had no idea any tone had been turned, but there you go: shit happens even in the best of company.

"Not wanting to be the fireman, but are these thoughts based on your actual printing output need or a theoretical one?"

If you'd bothered to understand my first sentence (above) in my first post, you'd have seen that I was asking a simple question; however, your explosive reaction tells me that I've touched onto something best left untouched, so I shall let you cuddle it all by yourself. It really matters not a lot to me whether you do or do not buy equipment, whether you lead your students to your favourite dealer - it's not my responsibility and I feel no interest beyond that shown (I thought) clearly in the post of mine I've quoted.

"What is it about forums that brings out the worst in people.. "

Well, you tell me; you're the guy with the big problem that I don't quite see.

Relax, stay cool; it's never worth the anxiety: it's only ever an opinion at best. I'm afraid I've no idea who Horseback and Clutter might  be, so can't help you by offering an opinion on your imitation.

;-)

Rob C

Sorry.. didn't realize I was being "explosive."  I suppose this exchange is a good example of how the nuances of non-verbs not making it across the web.  I did read what you wrote, thought about it, and replied.  I suppose you did the same.  We just missed a cog here and there.

I appreciate the humorous reply and its intent.

[muntanela]

The 5d3 even survived the back street of Naples.

Et pour cause! ...

[NancyP]

The birders are going to want to know - can we use our teleconverters and still get that auto-focus? Or has there been a significant sensor focusing redesign that absolutely precludes squeezing a bit more to work at f/8?

[Ellis Vener]

With the 5D Mark III at f/8 the only AF sensor working in crossed sensor mode is the center one.