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Author Topic: Difference between Hahnemuhle FineArt Baryta vs Photo Rag Baryta?  (Read 14100 times)

ymc226

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For purely B&W prints, what are the differences?  The Hahnemuhle website does not provide an adequate description for me to assess the differences.

I print using an Epson 3880 with ImagePrint 9 RIP.
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Czornyj

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Re: Difference between Hahnemuhle FineArt Baryta vs Photo Rag Baryta?
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2012, 10:31:04 am »

It states, that FineArt Baryta is 100% alfa-cellulose based bright paper with moderate OBA contetn, while Photo Rag Baryta is 100% Cotton based warm white paper with no OBA.

Both papers have glossy surface with distinct fiber texture, FAB is brighter (103%), PRB is not as bright (91%) and warmer, but it's suppose to have better archival properties.

neile

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Re: Difference between Hahnemuhle FineArt Baryta vs Photo Rag Baryta?
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2012, 11:07:21 am »

FineArt Baryta is incredibly cool toned. The paper base has an almost purple tone to it. The Photo Rag Baryta is also cool, but not nearly as purple.

Neil
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Neil Enns
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JeffKohn

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Re: Difference between Hahnemuhle FineArt Baryta vs Photo Rag Baryta?
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2012, 11:34:47 am »

Photo Rag Baryta has an OBA-free paper-white of 97, 0, 2 (Lab), I wouldn't call it a cool paper.
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Czornyj

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Re: Difference between Hahnemuhle FineArt Baryta vs Photo Rag Baryta?
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2012, 12:00:28 pm »

The paper base has an almost purple tone to it. The Photo Rag Baryta is also cool, but not nearly as purple.

I suppose you meant the infamous Baryta FB, known for magenta cast and heavy OBA load:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=58418.msg471885#msg471885

abiggs

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Re: Difference between Hahnemuhle FineArt Baryta vs Photo Rag Baryta?
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2012, 07:33:53 pm »

Photo Rag Baryta is definitely a warmish paper. I would say that it is similar to Museo Silver Rag on the warmth scale.
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Andy Biggs
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neile

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Re: Difference between Hahnemuhle FineArt Baryta vs Photo Rag Baryta?
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2012, 07:44:40 pm »

Sorry, my bad on the Photo Rag Baryta. Was typing from memory when I was still groggy in the morning :) The FineArt Baryta is definitely purple tinged. I used it for all of my Antarctica work, which was a nice combo but it's not for everyone.

Neil
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abiggs

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Re: Difference between Hahnemuhle FineArt Baryta vs Photo Rag Baryta?
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2012, 07:51:56 pm »

Yeah, the Fine Art Baryta is definitely bright bright bright bright. I do have an issue with their naming the paper Fine Art, though. Alpha cellulose as a base is good, but not good enough to be called Fine Art. Just my $.02
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Andy Biggs
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texshooter

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Re: Difference between Hahnemuhle FineArt Baryta vs Photo Rag Baryta?
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2012, 02:16:06 am »

im looking at my test prints with these papers from my epson 3800. the only difference i can tell is the photo rag is warmer and has a smoother surface than the fine art.
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Difference between Hahnemuhle FineArt Baryta vs Photo Rag Baryta?
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2012, 03:58:50 am »

im looking at my test prints with these papers from my epson 3800. the only difference i can tell is the photo rag is warmer and has a smoother surface than the fine art.

That is what I see too and what I have measured. The HM Photo Rag Baryta 315 gsm Lab 97.8 -0.2 2.2 is warmer and slightly smoother than the HM FineArt Baryta 325 gsm Lab 97.4 1.4 -3.9. The last is an alpha cellulose paper which is something I have no problems with.

When I put next to the two samples the HM Baryta FB 350 gsm Lab 93.7 4.1 -8.9 (the one not asked about) I see a much more cool magenta/purple paper, slightly more gloss and the two other samples show much less difference to one another than to this paper. The main thing is that this paper does not reflect much green, its whiteness depends on OBA content (blue emission) and the fiber white at the red end. In absence of UV light is will be a dull paper. Without testing it is hard to say what the lifetime of the OBAs is but the dependence on OBAs and the lack of other whitening agents makes it a risky choice. I do not object to its alpha cellulose base.


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340+ paper white spectral plots:
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
update april 2012: Harman by Hahnemühle, Innova IFA45 and more
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Czornyj

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Re: Difference between Hahnemuhle FineArt Baryta vs Photo Rag Baryta?
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2012, 05:10:40 am »

The main thing is that this paper does not reflect much green, its whiteness depends on OBA content (blue emission) and the fiber white at the red end.

BTW Ernst (Mark?), do you have any idea why there's such a huge hole in HM Baryta FB 500-650nm emission? It puzzels me how that's possible for a baryta based paper?

Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Difference between Hahnemuhle FineArt Baryta vs Photo Rag Baryta?
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2012, 08:54:08 am »

There is no weight or whatever % standard set for barite content in Baryta photo papers. I doubt the barite in this paper is more than 1% of total weight. The 550-600 NM recession in the white reflectance is like a plain paper reflectance. If barite would add to the reflection it would be over the total range including that part.

Edit:  a screenshot of SpectrumViz, the green spectral plot is Sihl 4804 Prof. Photo Barite Paper, the brown is HM Baryta FB, the red spectral plot is unsized, uncoated cotton paper, blue the spectral plot of a typical OBA, yellow a thick pressed tablet of barite.

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Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

340+ paper white spectral plots:
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
update april 2012: Harman by Hahnemühle, Innova IFA45 and more
« Last Edit: July 16, 2012, 04:00:29 pm by Ernst Dinkla »
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Difference between Hahnemuhle FineArt Baryta vs Photo Rag Baryta?
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2012, 12:36:00 pm »

I do have an issue with their naming the paper Fine Art, though. Alpha cellulose as a base is good, but not good enough to be called Fine Art. Just my $.02
What is "fine art paper?"  Cellulose is cellulose and it doesn't matter where it comes from.  One might also quibble with the definition of 'rag' since such papers are not made using cotton rags any more.  There may be other reasons to dislike a paper but the bottom line is that they are all cellulose derived (at least the paper stock as I'm disregarding the coating and RC components).
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