Dark Haze in Picture - Root Cause Analysis

[noparking]

I took a couple of first-ever pictures using a 1954 270mm 5.5 Schneider-Kreuznach lens and a Riteway 4x5 dual sheet film holder (see URL below). After scanning the processed negatives, I decreased the brightness of their digital images. With both images, as the brightness is decreased, blotches of dark haze appear throughout. (I was shooting paritally in the afternoon sun at the time, however, I was using a large lens shade, and held my hand up over the lenshade to prevent any possibility of the image becoming washed out.)

I brought in four 4x5 negatives for processing at the same time, but only the two images which came from this lens/film holder combination have this problem.
I like to know what caused this haze so I can avoid it in the future. I'm speculating to myself that maybe these were the first negatives to be processed that morning and the processing was still being dialed-in?

Your thoughts?

http://picasaweb.google.com/jeffp41/RCAOfDarkHazePictures?authkey=Gv1sRgCJqIt5uXv6b3lAE#

[HarperPhotos]

Hello,

Personally I think you should think about at looking at going digital?

Again personally I think you are flogging a dead horse if you are trying to get quality images off film and yes I know I will upset the die hard’s out there in LL land.

Cheers

Simon

[amsp]

You're probably better off asking over at http://www.apug.org/forums/home.php

[Dick Roadnight]

I took a couple of first-ever pictures using a 1954 270mm 5.5 Schneider-Kreuznach lens and a Riteway 4x5 dual sheet film holder (see URL below). After scanning the processed negatives, I decreased the brightness of their digital images. With both images, as the brightness is decreased, blotches of dark haze appear throughout. (I was shooting paritally in the afternoon sun at the time, however, I was using a large lens shade, and held my hand up over the lenshade to prevent any possibility of the image becoming washed out.)

I brought in four 4x5 negatives for processing at the same time, but only the two images which came from this lens/film holder combination have this problem.
I like to know what caused this haze so I can avoid it in the future. I'm speculating to myself that maybe these were the first negatives to be processed that morning and the processing was still being dialed-in?

Your thoughts?

http://picasaweb.google.com/jeffp41/RCAOfDarkHazePictures?authkey=Gv1sRgCJqIt5uXv6b3lAE#

Could you use a digital back to investigate the problem? ...or tell us where you are so that one of us could help you?

You tried other lenses?

Have you used this film holder with other lenses?

Yes, it looks to me as if it could be a chemical problem.

Mould on the lens is an obvious suspect - but the brown marks seem to be orientated vertically - like smoke?

¿Dirt in the film holder?

The film would not seem to be the problem ... but were all the sheets of film out of the same packet, or with the same batch number, best before date etc.

They best before date is only a guide, and the storage conditions could lead to premature deterioration.

Sheet film is so rare now that they could have been the firs processed that month? ... ask them if they do a test how often?

[Bryan Conner]

First of all, I dont think that you are flogging a dead horse at all in trying to get quality images from film.  Lots of competent, intelligent people do this everyday.  Having said that, it looks to me to be a chemical problem.  I never developed color negatives, but it looks similiar to problems I have seen in developing BW negatives.  You can only find out by a process of elimination.  Try a different lab and see what happens.  good luck.

[noparking]

Could you use a digital back to investigate the problem? ...or tell us where you are so that one of us could help you?
  I'm located in San Diego County
You tried other lenses?
  one other lens of the set of the 3 outfit lens was tried. It did not exhibit this problem.
Have you used this film holder with other lenses?
  -> All of this used hardware is new to me. I had never used this film holder before; period.
Yes, it looks to me as if it could be a chemical problem.

Mould on the lens is an obvious suspect - but the brown marks seem to be orientated vertically - like smoke?
  -> I don't see anything in the lens to explain this.

¿Dirt in the film holder?
  -> None that I recall

The film would not seem to be the problem ... but were all the sheets of film out of the same packet, or with the same batch number, best before date etc.
  -> Yes, all sheets were from the same packet.  Best use date: 08/2013

They best before date is only a guide, and the storage conditions could lead to premature deterioration.

Sheet film is so rare now that they could have been the firs processed that month? ... ask them if they do a test how often?
   -> FWIW, I had other 4x5 negatives developed at the same business 7-15 days earlier, without this problem.

[ondebanks]

Might be processing/drying-related residue on the negatives? In that case, thoroughly washing them in water and and carefully drying them again (using e.g. Photo-flo to prevent droplets forming) could help. If it's gunk which is not water soluble, try a film cleaner (like PEC-12).

And if either of those things work, it means the lab screwed up. I'd have a word with them about their quality control, give them a second (and last) chance. Some would say "ditch them", but in a world of dwindling film labs, I think it's better to ensure that the remaining labs deliver a consistent professional result through frank customer feedback, rather than see even more of them die of abandonment.

Ray

[tesfoto]

I like to know what caused this haze so I can avoid it in the future.

Your thoughts?

I think it actually looks great. Much like hipstamatic on iPhone, or an old Diana camera.

I would try to repeat this, to know how to get this analogue effect (or chemical), and use it creative.

Just my opinion

Cheers

TES

[drevil]

you said its only on half of the exposed images right? so maybe bad/voided film?
are the dark patterns randomly or always the same? if the same i would think the optics are somehow damaged.

what about the F stop, was it always the same?

[mediumcool]

Many years of experience in commercial colour and mono processing lead me to two conjectures:

(a) uneven development

(b) insufficient fixing (as part of the bleach-fix)

It’s not flare or light leakage. You could try putting it through a standard b+w fixing process to see if (b) is correct …

[theguywitha645d]

It is a processing problem. Can you see this by looking at the film or only after you scan?

My first guess is contaminated chemistry;those would have been the last two sheets. The chemistry may not have been brought up to temperature, but I would imagine the effect would have been even. Uneven development could be an issue, but I have never experienced that type of pattern. A wild guess might be that the negs were exposed to some sort of humidity before development. Can you can the negatives as negative? Can you also show the unexposed edges?

Boy, i thought the film/digital wars were over and photographers could be civil enough to help someone with a legitimate problem. Thank goodness you did not take that with a D800!

[mediumcool]

Why do so many posters affix a question mark after sentences that are not questions? [the preceding sentence was a question, BTW]

Get a grip, folks! Erroneous question marks make a writer seem unnecessarily querulous.

[Bryan Conner]

Why do so many posters affix a question mark after sentences that are not questions? [the preceding sentence was a question, BTW]

Get a grip, folks! Erroneous question marks make a writer seem unnecessarily querulous.

I agree?  How long has this bothered you.

[mediumcool]

I agree?  How long has this bothered you.

A long time?

[mediumcool]

And what do I get in my inbox this morning!
[for consistency’s sake, I just ended a question with an explanation mark   ]



Some Australians tend to run the ends of their sentences up in pitch; it gives the impression that their every statement is a question, but has the effect of making them sound as if they are continually/annoyingly trying to ingratiate themselves … [genuine ellipsis used to indicate a trailing off] 

Interrobang

[noparking]

I contacted the processing facility, and they investigated. They reported back that all four negatives were run on one rack at the same time. They do a control teststrip before processing any negatives, and that 4x5s usually go on after the rolls. They said they don't have an explanation how this happened and asked that I bring all four back in so they can be examined on a light box. I'll will do this with my next processing order.

I've examined the negatives under a bright light looking for any sign of a chemical residue. I don't see any.

I've uploaded the negative version of the picture that was suggested.

- Jeff

[ondebanks]

Some Australians tend to run the ends of their sentences up in pitch; it gives the impression that their every statement is a question, but has the effect of making them sound as if they are continually/annoyingly trying to ingratiate themselves … [genuine ellipsis used to indicate a trailing off] 

That mode of speaking - the moronic interrogative  - has become very prevalent in Ireland too, among youngsters especially. It began here about 20 years ago - I think it's due to constant exposure of kids and teens to US TV shows and movies. Sadly, my own young daughters lapse into it sometimes, having picked it up from their schoolmates, or TV, or probably both.

Ray

[mediumcool]

That mode of speaking - the moronic interrogative  - has become very prevalent in Ireland too, among youngsters especially. It began here about 20 years ago - I think it's due to constant exposure of kids and teens to US TV shows and movies. Sadly, my own young daughters lapse into it sometimes, having picked it up from their schoolmates, or TV, or probably both.

Ray

Ha! Not just the moronic interrogative, but the Valley Girl drawl (accompanied by “like” every third word, is also on the, like, you know, increase; about a decade ago I chided a friend (he was around 50 at the time) for using “like” as a meaning-free filler—most offended was he (then working at a university interacting with a lot young of student nurses)!