Epson 7600-9600 dye to ink

[dennmorr]

I just bought an epson 9600 in good shape. It is set up for dye. I understand that it is possible to reset it to pigment inks. Would appreciate any advice.
Dennis Morris

[Garnick]

I just bought an epson 9600 in good shape. It is set up for dye. I understand that it is possible to reset it to pigment inks. Would appreciate any advice.
Dennis Morris

Hi Dennis,

Of course the switch to pigment inks would necessitate a complete purge of the existing dye inks from the lines and the printhead. I believe you would need a set of cartridges with the proper cleaning solution to do this properly and I'm pretty sure you can obtain them from http://www.inksupply.com/index.cfm. Otherwise I suppose you could simply replace the existing inks with pigment carts and run them through as necessary while printing solid color images on plain paper, but I really don't believe that's the best plan. By purging you will at least know for sure that it has been done properly. I believe you would then have to reset some of the information on the control panel to identify it as pigment ink printer. Since I've never done this I can't offer any further information about the procedure, but I'm sure someone can and will. It's probably also covered in the Service Manual, which you can find online as well at http://www.feedroller.com/Store/epson_manuals.php.  Good luck and I hope this helps.

Gary     

[na goodman]

Here is a link to an old thread that tells you how to do it. I remember helping someone do it and kept the link.
Hope it helps. http://www.inkjetart.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1730

[dennmorr]

Thanks for the suggestions. I have scoured the web and have put together a strategy. The plan is to flush the lines and then reset the printer.  With luck I will post the procedure and  the results-hopefully with photos and a positive result.
Dennis Morris

[mmurph]

I have switched from dye to pigment and back a few times. No problems.

I actually love the 7600's because it is so easy to rest anything on the printers, to run any inks.

You should find details I posted on the Yahoo Epson Large Format.  If not, please e-mail me and I will find my old posts.

I made up my own cleaning carts with the Paul Roark Carbon base (mostly glycerin, water, and photo flo), along with some ammonia.  I would do 3-4 Inits, then dump the maintenance tank and swap inks. 

I actually like running dye inks for proofing. Cost is about $100 fot 1 liter opf each of 6 Claria-match dyes.  Cheap proofs!

Good luck! It is pretty easy.

Best,
Mchael

[mmurph]

Looking at those instructions. I am pretty sure I never had to use the mother board dip switch. Just the NPD settings.

I have posted on this here previously. It has been 2-3 years since I switched though. I know I posted fuller details at Yahoo Epson Large Format, as this used to be a big grey area, with many claiming you couldn't switch. It is actually quite simple.

There is also the trick to switch from matte black to photo without flushing all the color lines. Maybe called the African method? Basically you open the cart holder and shut off the printer, swap carts, then run a 24"x20" or so black only print to flush the black line.

My memory sucks. Have fun! But use cheap inks in these beasts, as the 7800 and newer only use 1/2 the ink for the same print. So with $100 for 6 liters my ink costs are like $.02 per square foot. But even Cone inks are too expensive to justify. (I used to get Epson pigment much cheaper than Cone from the 10000 and 10800 carts.)

Good luck!

Michael

[epatsellis]

Mike,
any advice on bringing an improperly stored 7600 back from the dead? While my ipf8300 just runs and runs, I have a 7600 that I'd like to convert to either one of the inexpensive 3rd party inks or monochrome, I expect I'll be flushing lines, changing dampers and likely doing a hot flush or soak of the head. Anything I'm missing?

erie

[mmurph]

Hi Erie!

I think you have most of it.  You might be surprised - I bought a 7600 that had very little use, but had sat for 3 years. I was able to get it back with no problem.

I think it will partially depend on the usage and wear on what you have to replace?

I started with some old carts.  I mixed the Paul Roark Carbon 6 base - glycerin, distilled water, and Photo Flo.  I mixed up a fresh batch with hot water.  It is basically what InkSupply.com sells as Gloss Optimizer.

http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Ink-Mixing.pdf


Then I added ammonia and rubbing alcohol - I don't remember the proportions.  I ran 4-5 "Init"fills, which fully empties the lines each time.  Then ran the inks and I was fine!  Empty the maintenance tank, fill with paper towels or similar, and reset the maintenance tank internally.

Of course you don't know exactly what you have until you try the inks.  You could add some dye and try a nozzle check on a porous paper if you want.  I would do that after loading the ink the first time and not getting a clean check, rather than having to load ink,, check, rerun cleaning fluid, etc.


I set up a proofing system 4 years ago using the OCP Claria Match dye inks with the premium quality Cyan.  R-Jet Tek is the USA reseller.  Of course the Cyan - which is the problem ink - isn't quite up to Claria standards. But sometimes we obsess about 100 year longevity for throw away prints!

http://www.resetters.ru/download/Claria.pdf

http://www.rjettek.com/


It is GREAT to be able to proof at 24" x 30" or larger for a few pennies worth of ink. I set that up when I was shooting 4x5. 24"x30" was my default proof size for a 4x5 scan that I thought would eventually be a larger print. The aesthetic of a large print is so different from a small one that I couldn't accurately judge using smaller prints. All of my output is intended as large prints, so I also proof my digital files at around 180 dpi native resolution, 18"x27" to 24" x 36". (I have the Nikon D800E on order.)


I have been proofing on Epson Semi-Gloss170 weight, I stocked up on that at when Epson had a buy 2, get 1 sale. I honestly prefer my OCP dye ink prints over my Epson Ultrachrome prints.  I think we abandoned dye a bit too quickly; hopefully we will move back a bit with the Claria-type inks at more reasonable prices.

I just ordered a fresh batch of ink from R Jet Tek. The $121 total for 6 quarts of ink (see below) comes to $4.72 for a 220 ml cart, or $.0214 cents per ML.  Be sure to get the C140-E Cyan, not the cheaper, regular Cyan.  

I don’t know if I still have my OCP Profiles for the 7600.  I think I lost them when I upgraded to Windows 7.  If not I can make some new ones and share them if you like.  It may be 2-3 weeks, I have some other things stacking up while I am working on taxes.

As I said, I am very happy with these inks, and I used to be about 99% against 3rd party inks. They fill a great niche for me. Even the Cone Color inks are 6x as expensive, at $123 for just 1 quart, or $28 per cart.

I bought refillable carts from InkSupply.com, but had about a 25% DOA failure rate. You might try the Cone (empty) refillable carts? I have also heard good thinks about the Lyson (empty) refillable carts.

Of course, I still have Epson Ultrachrome inks on another printer for final output. But this sytem saves me litterally thousnds of dollars when I am doing heavy proofing.  The match is close enough that I don't move to Epson inks until the very last print.


R-Jet Tek Order

BK140-E, OCP Ink EP T5844 BK, 32oz  - $17.77

M140-E, OCP Ink EP T5846 M, 32oz  - $21.28

Y140-E, OCP Ink EP T5846 Y, 32oz   - $19.25

CL141-E, OCP Ink Epson T08 Lt Cyan , 32oz  -   $11.35

ML141-E, OCP Ink Epson T08 LM, 32oz   -   $11.77

C140-E, OCP Ink EP T5846 Cyan, 32oz   -  $25.87

Subtotal     - $107.29
Shipping Cost (FedEx Ground®)   - $14.25

Total   $121.54


Back to taxes now!  More later when I can justify a break (known as procrastination.) Fun stuff!  

Cheers! Michael

[tmphoto]

R-Jet Tek Order

BK140-E, OCP Ink EP T5844 BK, 32oz  - $17.77

M140-E, OCP Ink EP T5846 M, 32oz  - $21.28

Y140-E, OCP Ink EP T5846 Y, 32oz   - $19.25

CL141-E, OCP Ink Epson T08 Lt Cyan , 32oz  -   $11.35

ML141-E, OCP Ink Epson T08 LM, 32oz   -   $11.77

C140-E, OCP Ink EP T5846 Cyan, 32oz   -  $25.87

Subtotal     - $107.29
Shipping Cost (FedEx Ground®)   - $14.25

Total   $121.54

It seems those are Dye ink.
If you want cheap Pigmented inks you can get the R2400 inks (same as 7800)

BKP202, BKP203, BKP201 etc. would be the ink part numbers:

T0591 IJ BKP202
Photo Black
Pigment
T0597 IJ BKP201
Light Black
Pigment
T0599 IJ BKP200
Light Grey
Pigment
T0592 IJ CP200
Blue
Pigment
T0595 IJ CPL201
Photo Cyan
Pigment
T0594 IJ YP200
Yellow
Pigment
T0593 IJ MP200
Magenta
Pigment
T0596 IJ MPL201
Photo Magenta
Pigment

T0598 IJ BKP203
Matte Black
Pigment

R-JetTek does not normally stock Epson inks.
Recently they filled a special order for the above pigmented inks and have a few pounds left.
Call Debbie 1-800-688-0129 x114
If you wait too long the inks will be gone and it takes several months for a special order from Germany.

[mmurph]

True tmphoto!  

I hadn't thought of the 3rd party pigments, because the dye are so much easier to run, with slightly better dynamic range. We abandonded dye for the most part when they were pretty horrid, but the longevity of SOME selective cheaper ones is much improved, as are the Claria of course.

or monochrome

For the monochrome, I started with the Roark Carbon - C6.  But I print almost 100% on glossy and wanted to get rid of all matte papers.

I created a Glossy 6K + Glop ink set from Epson inks on a second 7600.

I plan to do the same now with the HP inks that Paul mentions.   Basically bought a large cart of HP Vivera Photo Black (pigment & dye, but very, very stable and more neutral than the Epson.)  I am going to create a Glossy 6K + Glop ink set from, along the lines of what Paul has outlined.

One 775 ml cart will make about 365 ml of the darkest black (straight), along with the same amount of the other 5K's when mixing with Paul's base. Net price on sale was around $145. The glycerin is about $35 a gallon, plus distilled water & very little Photo Flo.

Let us know which way you are heading - color, B&W, matte, glossy, dye, pigment - and we can, advise or share profiles.

Have fun!
Michael

[tmphoto]

One 775 ml cart will make about 365 ml of the darkest black (straight), along with the same amount of the other 5K's when mixing with Paul's base. Net price on sale was around $145. The glycerin is about $35 a gallon, plus distilled water & very little Photo Flo.

The lowest price I can find on Ebay is over $200; where do you get those carts for $145?
Are you going to use the Carbon 6 Ebony formula for that?

[mmurph]

The lowest price I can find on Ebay is over $200; where do you get those carts for $145?
Are you going to use the Carbon 6 Ebony formula for that?

From OfficeMax of all places! They have pretty decent HP specials now and then. I believe it was marked down to $185 or so, then 20% off on that.

I am using my own variation of Paul Roarks HP workflow.

http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/HP-C6.pdf

I am ONLY concerned with best glossy printing with no toning. I did the same thing with Epson inks a few years ago, because Cone still didnt have a glossy neutral ink set. The HP are more neutral.

I have an Xrite iPro, so I make my own profiles. I started with the full black. Then I made a 50%, 25%, 12.5%, 6%, 3% greys.(I think? The 50% sounds high for Light Black - is normal 35%?)

 It is easy to make the next dilution, as you just use equal parts of the previous dilution and the base. If you start at 35% you get closer to 1.5% to 2% lightest. Plus Glop (gloss optimizer).

Quick notes from memory. I'll look at notes later. Have to stay on taxes.

Cheers! Michael

[dennmorr]

Thanks for everyone's input. I have just finished the switchover from Dye to ink. I'll get into more detail later but I do need make sure I haven't messed up in some way.
I purchased 7 refillable  220 ML cartridges and partially filled them (25%) with Cone's Piezo flush . I toggled the #6 dp switch and on the service configuration switched "NPD" from "2" (dye) to "1" (pigment). When I turned the machine back on it had the "wrong cartridge" (or similar) display.  I then  tried "0"  "no ink check" and it powered up fine and accepted the pigment cartridges (with cleaner). I ran maybe a dozen power cleans and printed a dozen of so magnified scans (24"x24") of my 4000 autocheck print hopefully trying to recreate the base colors. After the pink of the cleaning solution started to appear on the printout I switched over to Epson ultratone 220 ml cartridges and proceeded to flush and print. After many many powercleans (20+ at least) and 20 24 x 24 prints    the cyans, magentas and yellow seem to be OK(and  have been since early in the process) but the blacks seem to have  some pink cleaning fluid causing a diluted gray printout. The ink levels have come down 2  notches. Is this normal and should I continue to pump OEM ink into the waste tank or use up my spare proofing paper? Or is there some other method of getting the cleaning fluid out of the lines? Does anyone know how much ink is used to charge the lines when the printer is originally started? My guess is I have run 50-70 ml from each cartridge  so far. Or alternately is the "0" no ink change setting causing me some printing issues?

Puzzled
Dennis Morris

[dennmorr]

And amazingly enough-I do one more cleaning and presto! Just made a canvas print and it came out great. However if anybody thinks I have messed up any steps let me know.  I am going to post a more detailed step by step of the dye to pigment switch when I'm done a few more prints.

Dennis Morris

[dennmorr]

As I promised earlier I am posting my adventures with trying to switch my Epson 9600 from Dye to Pigment ink.
Here is the process:
1. Obtain 7 refillable cartridges with chips matching the seven 7 ultrachrome cartridges you wish to use ( 6 plus photo black or Matte black)
2. Fill ( at least partially) these cartridges with your favorite cleaning solution. I used 16 oz. of Jon Cone's Piezo flush distributed evenly among the 7 cartridges.
3. Turn off and unplug the printer.
4. Remove the panel  directly behind the LED display on the rear of the printer.
5. Find dp switch #6. It should be in the up position.

6. Slide the switch to the down position.
7. Go into Maintenance Mode 2 by switching power ON while pushing the 'Paper source', 'Cut/Eject',
and 'Paper Feed down' buttons.
8. Press the 'Paper Feed down' button until you see "SERVICE CONFIG" on the display - press the 'arrow right'
button (not Enter!). It then shows 'XXD' in the lower part of the display.
9. Press the 'Paper Feed down' button until you see "NPD" -press 'arrow right' button (not 'Enter'!).
 A value '2' should be in the display.
10. There are 3 possible settings for NPD: 0 - no ink check 1 - pigmented ink  2 - dye inks(there should be
star "*" at this setting)
11. Change NPD setting to '0' (no ink check) and press "Enter" - a star should show now next to the '0'
12. Switch printer off
13. Switch printer on
14. Remove the Dye cartridges and replace with the cleaning cartridges. The LED should now indicate that the correct "ink" is installed.
15 Run some cleaning cycles -if you want you can run a test pattern with the 7 "colors"  When the the cleaning fluid works its way thru the lines it will appear on the print.
16. Replace the cleaning cartridges with OEM or your favorite substitute.
17.  Run cleaning cycles until you can get a good print of all "colors"  You are all done!!!!

Some contributors to various forums I researched indicated that running the cleaning solution was not absolutely necessary
 -though advisable - the fear is that the dye and pigment inks might react and clog the head.  Any how I was not able to get my light magenta cleaning cartridge (defective) to fit into the machine at #14. Not wishing to wait a week for a replacement I substituted a  G and G Light magenta cartridge I had laying around with no apparent ill effects.

Hope this can be of help to any one in the same position. I was able to get my used 9600 for $500 so this has been been very  happy experience. I have a 4000 and 7600 so my "Tool Time"  printer fetish is satisfied.
Dennis Morris 

[polymerase]

Thanks for sharing your detailed instructions Dennis!

You posted this just at the right time. I bought a 9600 a few days ago with dye ink and was trying to figure out the easiest way to switch to the glorious ultrachromes. You saved me a headache.

Happy printing.