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Author Topic: Lenses for D800e  (Read 19313 times)

erpman

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Lenses for D800e
« on: March 29, 2012, 04:59:36 am »

Hi Folks!

So Im getting the D800e, and Im trying to figure out which lenses to get. The challenge is to find good enough optical quality on a budget. A little about my shooting style:

1) I shoot natural landscapes, often quite close up, and I want everything sharp, all the time. Therefore Im working with small apertures. I could care less about lens speed, and actually need the option of f/22, especially on 50mm and above. I have a good post-processing/sharpening routine, so diffraction is well under control.

2) I print very large, up to several meters, for gallery exhibitions. I want maximum sharpness and IQ, therefore...

3) ...Ive mostly been stitching, sometimes two-row panoramas consisting of up to 20 shots on 5dmkII. The plan now is to reduce the number of images down to 2-6 in single row panos, and rather use wider lenses. This gives the advantage of larger DOF without having to stop down that much.

4) I dont need AF but do need some degree of weather sealing.

5) So the most important aspects for me are: Supreme overall sharpness on f5.6-8 and smaller, low distortion, low CA, and good resistance to flare.

Ive already settled for the samyang/rokinon 35mm f1.4. I think this will be the one Ill be shooting the most with.

Then I need a good 50mm. I understand that this is a bit more tricky. Initially I decided on the small 50mm 1.8D since it has f/22, but Im leaning more and more toward the 50mm 1.4G. If you know of any 50mm which is on level with these and has f22 its much appreciated.

Next, I want a 24mm. The nikon 1.4g is out of my price range. Ive been looking at the samyang, and it looks promising. But some alternatives that have better corner sharpness than the nikon 2.8D are welcome.

For tele, I want a zoom since its practical in the landscape. It allows you to fine tune composition without having to move so much. Obviously the nikon 70-200vr II is the preferred one, but i cant afford it. The tamron 70-200 f. 2.8 macro is an option, although it has some issues. There are tons of this type of lenses, so bring em on.

Remember, manual focus is not a problem!

Here is my webpage if you want to see the type of work that I do: http://www.erikfriisreitan.com
« Last Edit: March 29, 2012, 05:02:58 am by erpman »
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MarkL

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Re: Lenses for D800e
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2012, 05:09:09 am »

If you stitch so many frames do you really need lenses that wide? I stitch about 9-12 D700 frames and my most used lens is an 85mm. I would seriously look into helicon focus and focus stack rather than using lenses at f/22 especially with the D800E. I do this with my landscapes and never stop down past f/8 to maintain sharpness.

Take a look at zeiss ZF lenses.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2012, 07:46:17 am by MarkL »
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marcmccalmont

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Re: Lenses for D800e
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2012, 05:44:58 am »

I settled on 2 lenses for the 800E ( I already had the Nikkor 14-24 2.8 that I used on my 5DII)
Leica R 80-200 f4.0 with leitax adapter and Leica R 28-90 f2.8-4.5 (a cheaper option Leica R 35-70 f4.0)
I would be shooting between f4.0 and f8.0 if you need more DOF I second helicon focus or blending in PS
Marc
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Marc McCalmont

erpman

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Re: Lenses for D800e
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2012, 06:13:04 am »

Ive tried helicon, and Im not comfortable with it. Its too messy and unpredictable for landscape use. To me its more important to produce a large print with a minimum of interpolation. With this much resolution and proper deconvolution sharpening in raw conversion, diffraction at say f16-f18 is in my experience not a big issue. Sometimes it can actually be an advantage, since the softening evens out the difference between in-focus and out of focus areas. It might be different with the d800s smaller pixel pitch though.

I wouldnt say that 2-6 images in a stitch is a lot, compared to the 20+ that I do now. Hence the need for wider lenses and the opportunity of stopping down less.

Zeiss... I dunno, neither the 50mms or the 25mm have decent enough corner sharpness. Thats more important to me than extreme center sharpness. Even sharpness across the frame makes stitching easier.

How about medium format lenses with an adapter (zrk)? Anyone have experience with this?

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erpman

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Re: Lenses for D800e
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2012, 06:22:49 am »

marcmccalmont: Tell me more about the leica lenses you mentioned. Are there any reviews or tests of them online? How much functionality do you get with the adapter? (metering, aperture control etc)
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JohnBrew

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Re: Lenses for D800e
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2012, 07:29:48 am »

Also have 800E on order and I do mostly landscapes. I already have Zeiss 50 Makro and 85 1.4G and am not really planning on getting anything else, however I do feel a 135 DC beckoning. Also have a few Ai, Ais lenses which are proving good in tests done by some Europeans.

Oh, on second thought, I am anxiously awaiting the new 28 to be available!
« Last Edit: March 29, 2012, 01:03:35 pm by JohnBrew »
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Lenses for D800e
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2012, 08:56:38 am »

I would recommend the Zeiss 100mm f2.0.

Cheers,
Bernard

Peter McLennan

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Re: Lenses for D800e
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2012, 11:34:50 am »

My 55mm F3.5 Micro Nikkor offers remarkable spatial and colour resolution at a bargain price.  Frequently less than $200 on KEH.  It stitches effortlessly.  Since the lens "breathes" little, focus blends are easy, too.  I call it my "Science Grade" lens. : )

I was so amazed when I first began using mine on my D300's, I immediately bought another as a backup.  They'll both be very happy on my just-ordered D800, I'm sure.

Just be sure to get the AIS version.
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marcmccalmont

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Re: Lenses for D800e
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2012, 01:06:19 pm »

marcmccalmont: Tell me more about the leica lenses you mentioned. Are there any reviews or tests of them online? How much functionality do you get with the adapter? (metering, aperture control etc)
Google Erwin Putt and leitax you get metering and focus confirmation
these zooms are as good as primes
Marc
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ckimmerle

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Re: Lenses for D800e
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2012, 01:19:49 pm »


1) I shoot natural landscapes, often quite close up, and I want everything sharp, all the time. Therefore Im working with small apertures. I could care less about lens speed, and actually need the option of f/22, especially on 50mm and above. I have a good post-processing/sharpening routine, so diffraction is well under control.


At f/22 diffraction is NOT under control, no matter how much post-processing you do. Lost information is lost, period. You may be able to use sharpening to help give the allusion of a bit more detail, but it will NEVER repair the damage caused by diffraction. With most Nikon lenses, peak performance is about f/5.6 with very good performance up to F/11.

Really, though, you need to think about WHY you want a D800. If it's for the resolution, then why on earth would you set the aperture so small that the lens resolution is less than the sensor's? Seems a bit of a waste.

If you have problem with DOF, then think about the PC-E lenses. They're about $2000 each, but they have excellent performance and will solve a lot of the problems with DOF. The only issue will be the 24mm PC-E, which can only be put on one way due to the overhanging flash. If it's anything like the D7000, though, it's not a big deal.
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erpman

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Re: Lenses for D800e
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2012, 02:02:33 pm »

At f/22 diffraction is NOT under control, no matter how much post-processing you do. Lost information is lost, period. You may be able to use sharpening to help give the allusion of a bit more detail, but it will NEVER repair the damage caused by diffraction. With most Nikon lenses, peak performance is about f/5.6 with very good performance up to F/11.

Really, though, you need to think about WHY you want a D800. If it's for the resolution, then why on earth would you set the aperture so small that the lens resolution is less than the sensor's? Seems a bit of a waste.

I didnt say that I regularly shoot at f22, just that I want the opportunity to go above f16 on occasion. Ive done extensive testing to figure out where the limits for my gear and processing go, and trust me when I say that I know what Im doing when going over f11. I will test the d800 with regard to this. Diffraction is a small issue when you consider that the image resolution you get from stitching can reach 140mp. The relative blurring caused by diffraction is marginal in this context.

Although a real and important phenomenon people obsess way too much about diffraction it. In real life, print that is, its not a big deal. If you check the first print on my web-page its done on f18...looks sharp enough to me...

Im actually wondering about just getting the 24-70mm f.2.8 and stick with it for the time being, I heard it does better than some primes.
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Christoph C. Feldhaim

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Re: Lenses for D800e
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2012, 05:19:43 pm »

A pixel of the D800 has a pitch of 4.88.
The diagonal of a square of 4 pixels is (2*4.88)*sqrt(2)=13.4.
13.4 corresponds to an f-stop of 13.4/1.35=9.9 at green light.
So - at F11 you already have a size of the first diameter of the diffraction disc which is big enough to swallow 4 pixels.
This means every single light ray is blurred to 4 pixels!
This alone will drop the effective resolution of a 36 MP image of the D800 to something below 9 Megapixels.

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Lenses for D800e
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2012, 06:34:41 pm »

At f/22 diffraction is NOT under control, no matter how much post-processing you do. Lost information is lost, period.  You may be able to use sharpening to help give the allusion of a bit more detail, but it will NEVER repair the damage caused by diffraction.

Hi Chuck,

Sorry to burst a bubble, but it is possible to restore a lot of the original information, in theory even all of it (if it weren't for noise, unknown deconvolution parameters, and limited precision of the calculations). Now, whether the OP also employs the deconvolution technique needed remains unanswered because he didn't specify what he does.

Cheers,
Bart
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erpman

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Re: Lenses for D800e
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2012, 07:33:13 pm »

Hi Chuck,

Sorry to burst a bubble, but it is possible to restore a lot of the original information, in theory even all of it (if it weren't for noise, unknown deconvolution parameters, and limited precision of the calculations). Now, whether the OP also employs the deconvolution technique needed remains unanswered because he didn't specify what he does.

Cheers,
Bart

I use Richardson-Lucy Deconvolution in RawDeveloper. I still maintain that its what meets the eye that counts though.

But anyway, the 24-70 2.8 looks promising, will it hold up to the resolution of the d800, assuming that we stay below f.11?
« Last Edit: March 29, 2012, 07:36:35 pm by erpman »
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stever

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Re: Lenses for D800e
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2012, 08:27:56 pm »

Lloyd Chambers diglloyd.com and lensrentals.com have lens lists (they may be the same).  if you're going to realize the capabilities of the D800E, anything less than the Nikon 70-200 is a waste of money  -- pretty much goes for any budget lenses
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Lenses for D800e
« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2012, 11:04:23 pm »

Lloyd Chambers diglloyd.com and lensrentals.com have lens lists (they may be the same).  if you're going to realize the capabilities of the D800E, anything less than the Nikon 70-200 is a waste of money  -- pretty much goes for any budget lenses

It depends on the intended usage though. For example, at f8 and 200mm, the gap between the 70-200 f2.8 and the 70-300 f4-5.6 is small enough that the slighest technical mishap will hide the difference in real world shooting.

Cheers,
Bernard

LKaven

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Re: Lenses for D800e
« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2012, 11:49:56 pm »

But anyway, the 24-70 2.8 looks promising, will it hold up to the resolution of the d800, assuming that we stay below f.11?

Yes, absolutely.  It's solid corner-to-corner on the D800.  The 24mm of the 14-24mm is better than the 24mm of the 24-70.  Less distortion.  I don't know how much you like to go ultra-wide, but the 14-24 is a slice of heaven.  It's a little unwieldy as far as using filters, but it's the sharpest ultra-wide made.  Just killing on the D800.  Very low depreciation on it too.

ckimmerle

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Re: Lenses for D800e
« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2012, 11:57:38 pm »

Sorry to burst a bubble, but it is possible to restore a lot of the original information, in theory even all of it (if it weren't for noise, unknown deconvolution parameters, and limited precision of the calculations).

Sure you can bring some information back, as I inferred, but to expect to recover all is ludicrous, even with deconvolution sharpening, which I do use. As you said, there are many more variables other than diffraction. There is simply no substitute for getting the most information possible at the time of capture.
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erpman

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Re: Lenses for D800e
« Reply #18 on: March 30, 2012, 06:19:09 am »

It seems that Im gonna start out with the 24-70mm and then build from there, perhaps add a 50mm. I will anyway need a general purpose lens with AF that can take a beating for doing work in more harsh weather conditions where you cant set up a tripod and work slowly. The 24-70 seems good enough for slow work too, and down the line this bad boy looks very tempting ;D
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billy

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Re: Lenses for D800e
« Reply #19 on: March 30, 2012, 01:01:11 pm »

I am also going to get the Nikon d800e and am trying to find a great 50mm for it. I only need one lens and prefer this type of prime. What autofucos options do I have? Is nikon's 50mm 1.4 any good? It is not on Nikon's preferred lens list. Are there 3rd party options? are there converters for canon lens to fit on nikon? any contax AF lenses that would work? I am only interested in high quality lens fyi. If i cant find an AF lens I would go with the zeiss zf 50mm.
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