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Author Topic: Photographer or Cinematographer  (Read 1662 times)

Edalongthepacific

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Photographer or Cinematographer
« on: March 08, 2012, 01:11:45 am »

I have followed some of the discussion concerning the transition from Canon Mark II to Mark III. Am I wrong in concluding that the increased functionality and image resolution does not sustain an argument for the additional cost...of about $1,000 for photographers? Are photographers paying for an increase in the camera's movie making function? I believe a good photograph is worth an hour of video. I am always interested in a more perfect instrument for gathering image detail; however, I do not use the video function and do not want to pay for its research and development. I am a photographer not a cinematographer. Frankly, I wish the major manufacturers would either produce a movie camera or a camera for photographers and not combine both in one device. Your thoughts encouraged.
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Photographer or Cinematographer
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2012, 02:04:17 am »

Hi,

It may be that image quality wise the 5DII is as good as the 5DIII. On the other hand there had been a lot of enhancements on the camera like better weather sealing and better AF. My impression is that the new 5DIII is a more robust camera and more professional camera.

Image sensors are now pretty close to optimal, Canon may have some issues on the sensor side compared to the vendors using Sony sensors and it may some take for Canon to fix that. But until Canon develops new technology we will not see a "quantum leap" in sensor performance.

Like it or not, Canon cameras are much used for video. That does not cost a single penny for Canon to make, but gives additional value to the user. A still camera is obviously not ideal for motion, but nevertheless it is very useful.

If 100% viewfinder, new AF, improved weather sealing and other new features are not needed the 5DII is still available at much reduced price but it may not be around forever.

Personally, I like to combine stills with motion. Like stills of birds and motion with birds in flight.

Best regards
Erik

I have followed some of the discussion concerning the transition from Canon Mark II to Mark III. Am I wrong in concluding that the increased functionality and image resolution does not sustain an argument for the additional cost...of about $1,000 for photographers? Are photographers paying for an increase in the camera's movie making function? I believe a good photograph is worth an hour of video. I am always interested in a more perfect instrument for gathering image detail; however, I do not use the video function and do not want to pay for its research and development. I am a photographer not a cinematographer. Frankly, I wish the major manufacturers would either produce a movie camera or a camera for photographers and not combine both in one device. Your thoughts encouraged.
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Walter_temp

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Re: Photographer or Cinematographer
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2012, 02:47:36 am »

Like it or not, Canon cameras are much used for video. That does not cost a single penny for Canon to make, but gives additional value to the user.

I agree with most points you made but doubt this one. Oversimplified, i think.
According to Canon several enhancements for movie makers have been implemented. Among
- reduced rolling shutter effect
- headphone socket
- timecode
- encoding options.
I think we all agree that this has an influence to costs in development and manufacturing. And for those who have no intentions to take part in video production this may be a nuisance.
On the other hand: Video makers made a run on 5D Mark II and boosted the sales (no hard numbers to tell, just an assumption) and it is common sense for a company to keep the customer satisfied.

I think it would be easier to accept this dilemma without the hefty price tag coming with the Mark III compared to it's predeccesor.

Ciao, Walter
« Last Edit: March 08, 2012, 03:01:51 am by Walter_temp »
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Colorado David

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Re: Photographer or Cinematographer
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2012, 12:39:02 pm »

I'm not a Canon shooter, so my comments will be more general.  Still photography and videography have been on an intersecting trajectory for some time.  The two require different, but similar skill sets.  The market in general is asking (by their purchasing choices) for equipment that supports both disciplines.  At this time it would be foolish for either Canon or Nikon to ignore that reality.  I own several video cameras including one that was $35,000 new.  Although the functionality of shooting video with a still camera is still less than ideal, the results are unquestionably superior.  This is a pivotal time for the two disciplines and I believe that video acquisition through Canon and Nikon still cameras will only grow.

RichDesmond

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Re: Photographer or Cinematographer
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2012, 01:02:07 pm »

Increased development costs don't necessarily lead to higher product costs. If that development cost leads to far higher sales then the per unit cost may actually come down.
Obviously I don't have specific numbers or forecasts from Canon, but I'd imagine a "stills only" version of the 5D would sell in far fewer numbers.
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Scott O.

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Re: Photographer or Cinematographer
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2012, 02:27:31 pm »

I have always been in the photographer not videographer camp, wondering why we have to be subjected to the nonsense of video in a still camera. But a recent trip with photo friends to do street photography opened my eyes. Some of them got both stills and excellent video, while I got only stills and feel that I really missed out on some good opportunities. So I have completely changed my mind am anxiously awaiting the arrival of my D800E so I can have the option.

ErikKaffehr

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Re: Photographer or Cinematographer
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2012, 11:47:30 pm »

Hi,

Once development has been made there is little marginal cost, I would believe. A major part of the development costs is probably the DIGIC ASIC which is shared of several product lines. Once you have a movie capable chip set I'd suggest that adding video mode is associated with very small costs. Making a camera without video and maintaining tow different product lines with essentially same camera with and without video capability would also cause extra cost.

Best regards
Erik


Increased development costs don't necessarily lead to higher product costs. If that development cost leads to far higher sales then the per unit cost may actually come down.
Obviously I don't have specific numbers or forecasts from Canon, but I'd imagine a "stills only" version of the 5D would sell in far fewer numbers.
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Rob C

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Re: Photographer or Cinematographer
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2012, 05:51:47 am »

I agree with the OP. I have zero interest in video and do wish that cameras were smaller, lighter, cheaper and yet still capable of maximum FF quality. Strip out the crap by making them dedicated to one discipline or the other!

But I suppose the trend is being spread everywhere because of its money-making possibilities. Try buying a car without a host of additional junk bolted onto it!

I bought my new Fiesta last winter, and had to pay a lot more for it - about a thousand plus Euros - than I wanted to pay because it was in stock, supposedly the last of the coupés to have the 1.6 diesel option, and was black, itself a pain in the ass, because though it makes my third black car, you can only have that in a metallic look that, frankly, looks cheap! It also has a bunch of nonsense that includes voice control et bloody cetera. I've had cars since '56 and never felt deprived because I had to use a key, control the heat to suit myself; I never felt inclined to talk to any of them nor indulge in any other questionable behaviour with them. If I'm alone and feel the need for conversation, I have the best audience in the world to hand as well as the best opinions I could wish to hear. I need to engage vocally with a car?

Yes, we are being suckered at every step of the bleedin' way. And that's not even going into the subject of TV package deals, banks, nor supermarket ploys.

Rob C

jjj

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Re: Photographer or Cinematographer
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2012, 08:45:22 am »

I hate to sound like a stuck record, but why do people go on and on and on and on about extra features that they personally do not use? If you want a camera or pice of software that has only the very specific subset of features you personally require and not the stuff that many other users love, why not get the manufacturers to make you a bespoke version? Oh wait, then you'll all complain at how expensive a made to measure product is.

Or Canon, Ford, whoever...could simply stop bothering to add new features and just carry on cranking out the same old crap year after year.
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Rob C

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Re: Photographer or Cinematographer
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2012, 09:00:41 am »

I hate to sound like a stuck record, but why do people go on and on and on and on about extra features that they personally do not use? If you want a camera or pice of software that has only the very specific subset of features you personally require and not the stuff that many other users love, why not get the manufacturers to make you a bespoke version? Oh wait, then you'll all complain at how expensive a made to measure product is.

Or Canon, Ford, whoever...could simply stop bothering to add new features and just carry on cranking out the same old crap year after year.




If the 'same old crap' works for me, gives me all I ever needed, then damned right I'd be happy with more of the same! Why ever not? Surely, it's the end product that I create with the tool that matters, not the bells and whistles that make that tool someone else's eye candy? I never needed more than, nor felt deprived having a Hass 500C and CM and a Nik F; were they all that's going today I'd be just as pleased.

Rob C

ErikKaffehr

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Re: Photographer or Cinematographer
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2012, 12:35:23 pm »

So,

What component do you want to rip out to be more precise?

Or do you want features disabled in software, so you can buy functions in the camera? Just download a 60 character authorization sequence for each feature?

Best regards
Erik


I agree with the OP. I have zero interest in video and do wish that cameras were smaller, lighter, cheaper and yet still capable of maximum FF quality. Strip out the crap by making them dedicated to one discipline or the other!

Rob C
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jjj

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Re: Photographer or Cinematographer
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2012, 02:42:57 pm »

If the 'same old crap' works for me, gives me all I ever needed, then damned right I'd be happy with more of the same! Why ever not? Surely, it's the end product that I create with the tool that matters, not the bells and whistles that make that tool someone else's eye candy? I never needed more than, nor felt deprived having a Hass 500C and CM and a Nik F; were they all that's going today I'd be just as pleased.
I hate to break it to you Rob, but there are other people out there, with different needs to you.
But more importantly those cameras were big improvements on previous cameras, what if others like you then said "we don't need that new fangled Nikon or that fancy Haselblad'.
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