Tilt Shift/PC lens for my D800

[dgberg]

Putting together my poor mans medium format rig for my pano work.
 D800e and a tilt shift lens still to be determined.
The Nikon 24 fits my budget but several of the reviews discuss build quality issues. (small knobs,sloppy fit)
The Hartblei and Scheinder both look to be of stellar quality but at twice the price of the Nikon.
Looking for comments from possibly a D3X  owner that's been shooting with a tilt shift lens.
Presently shooting my panos with D2Xs and 14-24 and 24-70 on a pano rig. This will be my first time shooting full frame with these lenses.
Hoping to start shooting 3 shot vertical and horizontal panos with the new setup and especially to get rid of that heavy pano head.
Prints go pretty big usually 24x60.
Is their a tilt shift optic I may be missing?

[kers]

I do not have the d800 so cannot judge about 36mp. But on 24mp:

the 85mm pce is the best - d8 full shift no problem
the 45pce is also very good - not full shift and d11
the 24pce is also very good -but you have to use it with liveview and check the corners at d9-11

as far as i know Schneider does not have a 24mm TS lens and the 45mm is expensive but not that good
The hartblei's i do not know..
For me it also will be a surprise to see how 36mp does on the PCE lenses- for sure not many Nikon lenses can do 36mp in the corners or even the sides

[dgberg]

Thanks.
You have pretty much confirmed my findings.
My other option is no tilt shift,stay with the pano head and get something like the Zeiss 21 Distagon T.

[torger]

I haven't used the Nikon's PC-E lenses, but use Canon's TS-E 24 II extensively. Concerning small knobs and sloppy fit, I guess this is a general problem with 35mm tilt-shift lenses. If you compare to an Arca Swiss large format camera with geared movements, the tilt-shift knobs on the 35mm systems is really crappy and poor feel etc.

However, having used the TS-E 24 I'd say that for actual results there's no problem. Despite the smallness and sloppiness it is good enough to consistently focus/tilt/shift well. All it takes is a good live view. On the Canon, the tilt needs locking down to not come out of position (one hand on the geared adjustment knob, one hand on the locking knob, and the eye on zoomed in live view), but the shift I often use unlocked.

[BernardLanguillier]

Looking for comments from possibly a D3X  owner that's been shooting with a tilt shift lens.
Presently shooting my panos with D2Xs and 14-24 and 24-70 on a pano rig. This will be my first time shooting full frame with these lenses.
Hoping to start shooting 3 shot vertical and horizontal panos with the new setup and especially to get rid of that heavy pano head.

I have been using the 24 pce on a D3x, very sharp lens but I found it a bit hard to focus with live view for some reason.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Ellis Vener]

Thanks.
You have pretty much confirmed my findings.
My other option is no tilt shift,stay with the pano head and get something like the Zeiss 21 Distagon T.

If that is the case I'd look at the Zeiss 25mm instead of the 21mm. From my (admittedly brief -about an hour or so ) hands on experience with a D800 and looking at a lot of the sample photos that have been posted so far, to get the full image quality out the  D800 cameras appear to be capable of will take superior optics and technique.

Like you I do a lot of stitched panoramic work and look forward to the D800 and also wonder if Canon will have something to compete with its sensor resolution and dynamic range within the next year.

[gubaguba]

Zeiss. 
http://www.hartblei.de/en/srz-set.htm

You could probably put a down payment on a house for the cost of all 3. 

[dgberg]

If that is the case I'd look at the Zeiss 25mm instead of the 21mm. From my (admittedly brief -about an hour or so ) hands on experience with a D800 and looking at a lot of the sample photos that have been posted so far, to get the full image quality out the  D800 cameras appear to be capable of will take superior optics and technique.

Like you I do a lot of stitched panoramic work and look forward to the D800 and also wonder if Canon will have something to compete with its sensor resolution and dynamic range within the next year.

This opens another can of worms.
I have a Nex 7 with Zeiss 24 f/1.8 on the way for a light weight carry around system. That Zeiss 24mm lens is auto focus on the Nex 7.
Another option would be to buy the Zeiss 21 or 25 mm with nikon mount.
Use it on the D800e and then also get a Nex/Sony adapter so it could be used manually on the Nex7.
I would then have 1 top grade Zeiss lens that could be used for both cameras.
Decisions,decisions?

[kers]

If that is the case I'd look at the Zeiss 25mm instead of the 21mm....

Sorry but i just sold my Zeiss 25mm because it was replaced by the much better Nikkor 24mm 1,4G, ;
also the 24mm pce is much better. At d11 the difference becomes small but that is 6 stops away from 1,4...
At 1,4 the nikkor is as good as the zeiss on 2,8
I am in line with the findings of photozone.de in this respect.
The 21mm Zeiss is probably a different story.

[Ellis Vener]

Glad to hear it. it is always good to find more quality at a lower price. I like 24mm f/1.4G myself but have not done the apples to apples testing you apparently did. Thanks for sharing your findings.

[jgbowerman]

Putting together my poor mans medium format rig for my pano work.
 D800e and a tilt shift lens still to be determined.

Is their a tilt shift optic I may be missing?

I believe you pretty well covered it. I have worked with a PC-E 45MM Nikkor the past three years, and as much as I like the lens, the glass, and the focal length; it is of inferior construction. The fittings for Shifting and Tilting are significantly loose. Tightening the nuts to lock movements is imprecise. I know of one user who twisted the knob off a lock nut. In any case, I'll never regret having acquired the Nikon model. But, I'm ready to move on.

After two years of holding back for a Hartblei 40/4.0, I took delivery on one two days ago. My D800E remains on pre-order, but in the meantime, I'm using a D700 to get familiar with the lens. It is of stellar construction, rock solid mechanical function exceeding the quality of Japanese-made Zeiss. It is a beast, weighing 4 pounds! I'm not looking forward to carrying it in a backpack over mountain passes. It comes with a tripod collar, so shift movements are parallax free. Shift and Tilt functions have no need for lock nuts... testament to the mechanical integrity. A large sweet spot comes with a 6 cm diameter making it ideal for full shifts. It is unidirectional shifting, but the direction can be rotated. Focusing in Live View was an eye opener. Live-View focus has never been more precise and quick, a real pleasure! Cost and weight are the most significant negatives, but losing EXIF data is also worth mentioning.

[sbay]

If you are shooting horizontal panos with tilt-shift lenses, keep in mind that the image quality may not be satisfactory at the far left and right edges. This has been my experience with the older 85mm nikon t/s and the canon t/s lenses (24II,45,90). For this reason, I prefer to shoot panos with a panning head and use t/s lenses for stitching when I need a more square aspect ratio (e.g., 4/3 or 3/2). Also using the 24mm t/s to create a horizontal pano will result in a very wide image (a little too wide for me to use generally).

Stephen

[JeffKohn]

Thanks for the report Greg, keep us posted as you continue to work with the Hartblei, especially once you get a chance to use it on a higher-res camera.

I share your assessment of the 45mm PC-E, just not sure I want to replace it for solely mechanical reasons, so I've been curious just how much better the Hartlei is optically.

[Dustbak]

Sorry but i just sold my Zeiss 25mm because it was replaced by the much better Nikkor 24mm 1,4G, ;
also the 24mm pce is much better. At d11 the difference becomes small but that is 6 stops away from 1,4...
At 1,4 the nikkor is as good as the zeiss on 2,8
I am in line with the findings of photozone.de in this respect.
The 21mm Zeiss is probably a different story.

Would that have been the ZF25/2.8? I have this one as well and agree the AFS24/1.4 is a better lens. However, it seems the ZF25/2.0 is another thing, I cannot say for sure since I have not used the 25/2.0. I sure would like to know.

[JohnBrew]

I have tried almost all the t/s lenses for Nikon mount. I even went so far as to purchase a 45, but had to return it as it had color bleed issues (bad Nano coating, imo). The Schneider 90 is a superior optic but ergonomically a nightmare to use. If you can master it, I feel sure it would be fantastic on a D800. I rented, then purchased a Zeiss 21. One of these years (hello Nikon) when the D800 is available I hope to use it on that body. Meanwhile I'm using it on my D700 and NEX-7 w/Novoflex adapter.
Ellis, not sure why anyone would choose the 25 over the 21 for landscape unless you are stitching, but YMMV.

[Philip Weber]

Where can one purchase a Hartblei 4/40 IF TS Superrotator in the US?

Thanks,
Phil

[bill t.]

T/S?  Bah!

It will make you crazy in the field and introduce a whole new set of ways to irrecoverably mess up the shot.  Those little knobs and their gear trains are ridiculously inadequate for the purpose.  And it is not uncommon to find scenes with planes and geometries that can't be adequately solved with T/S.  And be prepared for the light to go from great to blah as you are fiddling with springy little knobs and poking at the liveview.

For me it's the fiddle factor.  I hate fiddling in the field and nothing is as fiddly as T/S.

And it's also that optical ugliness that will inevitably creep into the corners/tops/bottoms/sides of your image, somewhere.  There is no free optical lunch with T/S.

Focus stacking.  Ah!  It's worth the effort.

And 21mm is too wide for panos.  You need 35 to 135mm to keep the horizon from winding up way the heck out there in Never Never Land.  Panos shot with long lenses greatly increase the height in the print at which high detail is apparent, and convey much more information about the scene than a wide angle lens approach.

[jgbowerman]

Where can one purchase a Hartblei 4/40 IF TS Superrotator in the US?

Thanks,
Phil

They are not stocked by a retailer in the US. I ordered mine direct from Germany with the help of Stefan Steib. He can handle all of the details. His email address:

s.steib@hartblei.de

Greg

[jgbowerman]

T/S?  Bah!

It will make you crazy in the field and introduce a whole new set of ways to irrecoverably mess up the shot.  Those little knobs and their gear trains are ridiculously inadequate for the purpose.  And it is not uncommon to find scenes with planes and geometries that can't be adequately solved with T/S.  And be prepared for the light to go from great to blah as you are fiddling with springy little knobs and poking at the liveview.

For me it's the fiddle factor.  I hate fiddling in the field and nothing is as fiddly as T/S.

It is a question of an individual demands and style.

I have not mastered tilting, and I'm not all that keen to use it. Tilt takes time to master, if it can be mastered at all, not to mention it demands compositional limitations on its implementation. But it can also make things work when otherwise they would not. Changing the plane of focus is tricky business and definitely not for many of us. 

It is the Shift that makes for all the reason to have one. My thing is landscapes, and I love the perspective control. It also aids a great deal in fine tuning a composition without having to mess further with tripod placement and tedious height adjustments on rugged terrain. No soft edges with the Hartlei 40/4, not to mention the precise mechanics. I'm not yet into stitching, but 40/4 is parallax free. Shifting, without question, saves me substantial time with setup.

[Stefan.Steib]

Bill

we build the 4/40mm IF TS on order. it takes about 2-3 weeks plus about 1 week to ship it (UPS is even faster).
It should maybe said , that the 4/40 IF is the worldwide only inside focusing shift and tilt lens, basing on the legendary
Carl Zeiss- 4/40mm IF Distagon, with a resolution of 200 lp/mm (Zeiss Data sheet, we have also measured this independently on our barrel)
you can take a look at a full review here:

http://diglloyd.com/articles/Hartblei-pub/Main.html

about operation you´ll find a very good explanation here on the DP-Review test of our 120mm:

http://www.dpreview.com/lensreviews/hartblei_120_4_pc_n10/

i have recently posted full neff raws from the Nikon D800E in this thread here on LL:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=66409.0

Greetings from Germany
Stefan