No Canvas Print Allowed and Forced Limited Edition Rules?

[Jim Coda]

I am prepping for my first art fair shows this year.

I'm not sure if you're prepping for your first shows ever or the early shows for this year.  If you haven't done these before then I recommend you do some research on each show you're thinking of entering.  Contact the photographers from last year and ask them how they did and go to the shows this year that you're thinking of entering next year to find out how the photographers are doing.  It's hard to make money at most of the shows and they are a lot of work.   In my area (San Francisco Bay Area) the number of good photographers that are doing the typical city/town art show has fallen precipitously due, I assume, to the economy.  They've been replaced by those selling t-shirts and toe rings.   

Even the shows with big reputations in the S.F. Bay Area that charge high booth fees and an entrance fee seem to have been hard-hit.  I went to the Sausalito Art Show in September 2010 and the photographers I talked to were complaining about having made hardly any money. 

 

[Johnny_Boy]

I'm not sure if you're prepping for your first shows ever or the early shows for this year.  

It would be my first show EVER! :-) I have done quite a bit of research so far and talked to a lot of experienced folks here in LuLa to get some tips. Folks have been very helpful here on LuLa.

I picked three shows that I research quite a lot about, but I was thinking ahead about other shows in the near region for the next year.

I thought about emailing previous photographers on the shows and asking them like you suggested, but I wasn't sure if they will be forth coming, as I will be their competitors. Thoughts? I purchased and read the Art Festival Guide book and it seems to indicate that most show folks are weary of sharing any info with the new comers for various reasons.

[Jim Coda]

I thought about emailing previous photographers on the shows and asking them like you suggested, but I wasn't sure if they will be forth coming, as I will be their competitors. Thoughts? I purchased and read the Art Festival Guide book and it seems to indicate that most show folks are weary of sharing any info with the new comers for various reasons.

I wouldn't hesitate to ask them.  You've got nothing to lose.  A phone call might get you a better answer than an e-mail.  Try to go to Portland and/or Bend this year.  I'd wait until Sunday afternoon to talk to them.  Most people will talk if they aren't busy.   You'll get to see what others are selling and you'll learn how you stack up against the competition.  If there doesn't seem to be much serious competition it may mean you could do well there, but it could also mean the show doesn't attract people interested in buying art and the good artists figured that out long ago.  Needless to say, those shows are to be avoided.   

[framah]

In regards to printing on canvas, I can not find words to express the deep remorse and self-loathing I feel at the end of the day as I run the credit card batch file.

Picture a Chris Matthews "HA!" here!!

[JohnBrew]

I have never made a photographic print on “canvas”. Why not? Because doing so is tantamount to mimicking/borrowing from painting. I believe photography after all these years should be appreciated for its own strengths, not by aping another aesthetic process.

0.02. 

Ditto. I could not have said it better.

[louoates]

When I'm selling photographs at an art show, a gallery, or from my home studio or web site I have a business. If I were to ignore requests to make canvas prints for customers my business would suffer.  So I'm happy to provide what the market is demanding. And I make a larger profit margin per sale.

[leuallen]

I make images - just so happens that photography is the only means I have any skill at achieving a result. If a canvas print enhances my image over other means, so be it. If a fine black and white on a good paper fits the image better, that is fine also.

Larry

[Jim Coda]

I am prepping for my first art fair shows this year. While I am based in Washington, I am planning to hit some of the Oregon shows next year. I’ve noticed that a show in Portland says no photographic print on canvas allowed, and another show in Bend has a requirement saying the photographic prints must have limited edition of 250 or less.

Is this a large trend in general for these type of venue? Why would canvas print not allowed? And why enforce limited edition?

Here is a great forum for you:  http://artshowforums.com/forum/

One thread had a discussion on canvas bans. Sorry, I don't recall the title of the thread, but "canvas" was probably in the title.
 

[philbaum]

Hey!  I make big prints on canvas because it's the only sane way to make really big prints!  No glass, just for starters!  That's exactly the reason oil painters use canvas, although many of them would actually prefer to be using board.  And the only way I could TRULY distinguish my photography as a unique art form is if I was making Daguerreotypes which is just too boring.  
.....
The majority of the public has no acceptance problems at all with photos on canvas versus oils on canvas, they just buy the image that moves them the most.  Or the art that best color coordinates with the sofa...

Bill - I agree.  The reasons i went to canvas were not to imitate painters, but:
a. weight, large canvas prints are much easier handled and transported than traditional framed prints.

b. Some show organizers don't allow glass over prints, especially if its going to be mailed in.  I had a 1' by 3' framed print that the customer dropped while taking it off the display wall.  shattered the glass and frame - whoops - don't want that now :-)

c. Reflections - its so nice to be able to view a print without all those reflections on the surface that come with glass and even plex to some degree. Museum glass is so expensive.

d. As far as "purity" goes, a lot of painters are scanning their paintings, and using that digital jpeg to make additional ink-jet printed "painted" canvases.  There's nothing wrong with that, IMO, but its certainly not "traditional" to use ink jet printers for paintings.

e. I just got back from an artist's reception at the Edmonds, WA, art and crafts fair.  I'd guess about 10% of the photography was in canvas, at least i can remember 5.

f. In April i had a show of 16 canvas prints in Port Townsend, WA, at a local shop.  I sold 4 prints, and 5 members of the adjacent co-op gallery came by during the art walk night to invite me to join their gallery.  Canvas is still not going to sell your prints if the content is not there, of course.  And it does raise costs.  I belong to the PT Photo Club, and members there have been very supportive of canvas, a few going that way themselves.

g.  Printing on metal sheets is the newest thing, but that really is expensive.

[louoates]

Last weekend I walked a street art show in Chicago's Hyde Park and noticed some photography trends I've seen recently in many art shows in Arizona:
1. A much larger percent of photographers (vs. painters) 
2. More canvas prints
3. Larger canvas prints
4. Much cheaper paper prints with and without mats. $20-49 16x20 usual
5. More HDR on display, usually mixed with traditional digital prints
6. Some specializing in HDR only with jumbo canvas prints. A few WAY overdone HDR, much like cartoon art
7. The usual percentage boasting "traditional" non-digital processing as a selling point
8. More #7 photographers considering switching to digital because of cost factors
9. The usual array of quality from exceptionally good in both digital and film to beginning digital photographers with zero post processing ability.
10. Very few were happy with sales. #6 above seemed to be creating the most "buzz".  Some in #7 above very defensive about film vs. digital.

[P2R2]

I sell at art festivals. I offer mdf plaques, metal and Facemount acrylic. The acrylic outsell metal or plaque 3 to 1. The plaques are half of the acrylic in price, the metal is in between.

I do offer free shipping. I usually mail my acrylic and drop ship the metal product with fedex. No damages so far.  Foe my booth display I can buff out any minor scratches to the point only i know. I display them, but do not sell them without a damage discount and disclosure.

Using metallic paper makes for the best of all acrylics imho.

[mistymoon]

I have done Art in the Pearl four times. It is a great show and is run by artists, and you will NOT be able to change their minds on the canvas issue. The debate has a long history at that show and the debate is closed. We are lucky that they let photography in at all, since the artist organizers have long had a debate about that as well. The photographers fortunate enough to get into that show consistently have very personal styles that have evolved over decades. Photographers with traditional national park photos will not get into that show, because their work is too generic and imitative.

The Pacific Northwest has never been a great place to sell traditional nature photography, perhaps because so many potential customers have access to taking their own great nature photographs in a particularly beautiful region.

[BobShaw]

A lot of people want canvas because it is cheap. They don't want to pay for framing.
As someone who is a both a photographer and someone who runs an art group, I believe it looks cheap.
A photo on canvas can hide a lot of flaws. If it is not good enough to print on paper, then try canvas.

If a piece of painted art arrives unframed then I would suggest they get it framed for the same reason. It looks cheap.
People can go into a Reject Shop and buy large canvas for $25. That is the expectation.

As for limited additions, then yes, they do raise the price, in the gallery and later on as well.
Art shows cost a lot to run and have limited wall space. They only want to show the best.

If this is your first art show then you probably need to go and look at a few and ask questions there.
Suffice to say the organisers are probably not going to be too interested in changing the rules.

[BillK]

Very few shows have rules against photos on Canvas, so I would not worry about that much.  Many of the better shows require limited editions, usually of 250.
I have personally never seen an official at a show check that you are doing limited editions, but I would not try and cheat here.
I was hesitant to do limited editions in the beginning, but if you do the numbers, its unlikely you will sell out of many editions.

I have been selling my photography at art shows for several years now. For the first few years I sold traditional framed prints under glass.
I soon discovered the difficulty of transporting larger pieces with glass and another problem nobody has mentioned here. Most of these shows are outside
Direct sunlight on a framed glass print causes the internal temperature to rise very high and causes outgassing of solvents with inkjet prints, fogging the glass.
The only way to fix it, is to take it apart and clean the glass. A Royal pain in the A**. Reflections with the glass is another problem. I used to have customers say
I really like the picture, but the frame doesn't match my furnishings, so I would lose the sale.

For these reasons and others, I decided to start doing Gallery wrapped canvas. All my problems went away and sales increased. I would never go back to traditional framed prints.
I see some of you here have expressed your distaste for canvas, that is fine, but the bottom line is, most of the buying public does not share your distaste for canvas prints.
Doing art shows is a business, I have learned over the years that it doesn't  matter what I like, it matters what the customer likes. I wasn't that fond of canvas in the beginning,
but have now changed my mind.  If you don't give your customer what they want, you will be a poor business person and soon fail. You need to keep an open mind, test and see what sells,
when you find it, go with it. You can't argue about personal taste, but I have to chuckle when I see some here saying, canvas looks cheap, or they wouldn't have it in their house, while some of us are making a good living
selling it to the public that likes it. 

[patjoja]

I have never made a photographic print on “canvas”. Why not? Because doing so is tantamount to mimicking/borrowing from painting. I believe photography after all these years should be appreciated for its own strengths, not by aping another aesthetic process.

0.02. 

I don't print on canvas, but I wish I had a dollar for every time someone walked in my booth and asked me if I had paintings or photography.  It's something I've been trying to figure out for the last two years. One guy with kids actually started arguing with me when I told him they were photographs. 

Anyway, I think all artists borrow from each other...it's human nature and part of the creative process.

Patrick

[DougDolde]

I have never made a photographic print on “canvas”. Why not? Because doing so is tantamount to mimicking/borrowing from painting. I believe photography after all these years should be appreciated for its own strengths, not by aping another aesthetic process.

0.02. 

That is ridiculous

[mediumcool]

That is ridiculous

You like imitation then? 

[Deardorff]

On the idea of limited edition printing. You might remind them that would mean an Ansel Adams, Brett and Edward Weston, Paul Caponigro and so many others would not be able to show there.
Reality is that most photographs are printed in much smaller numbers than what  Limited Edition implies. Noted writer on Photography, David Vestal did some writing on it and found he seldom made more than 5 prints of any particular negative - and generally fewer.

Do some checking and have your facts straight before talking with them.

[DougDolde]

You like imitation then? 

More nonsense

[pearlstreet]

I don't use canvas  but I don't think you can make blanket statements about the aesthetic qualities of it. It all depends on how it is used and who the artist is.