Epson 7900 from the inside - out

[stormyboy]

Please promise you won't change your name to Metta World Print before the new season starts.

Tom

[James Haswell]

hi folks.

Count me among the masses. bought a 9900 a little over a year ago. Right when the warranty ran out, it developed a clogged(uncloggable) LLK. When I first called Epson I was told that I had 4 days left on may contract. Then later that day I was asked for proof of purchase and was informed that I WASN'T under warranty after all and it would be a out of pocket expense call.

Needless to say this is crippling for a small business that didn't realize that the machine could go up in a puff of techno magic smoke. (metaphoric only- there was no smoke-event related with this devices failure).

So tomorrow I'll call Epson again and try to convince them that the right thing to do is to help me out in this case with some sweet sweet warranty action. I have serious doubts, but worth a try. If not, buying a new machine will be the most reasonable course of action, which is seriously Effed up.

[Randy Carone]

James,

Check your Private Messages

[gwhitf]

To be clear, is the basic printhead the same in the 7900/9900, but also the 7890/9890 as well?

Is it the "xx90" that we are to be concerned about, or is the "x890" a different setup?

Or do you have to go all the way back to the "xx80" in order to get the more stable printhead?

Thanks.

[clic]

It is believed that the basic design of the x900 head is the same as for the x890.  As a matter of fact, I have found in my research, 1 case of x890 affected by the LLK syndrom.

[gwhitf]

As a matter of fact, I have found in my research, 1 case of x890 affected by the LLK syndrom.

Well, I still am down with a bad case of 7900 LLK Syndrome.

Only solutions seem to be the dumpster, or Decision One.

[James Haswell]

Well, I have an update. I called Epson back, and seeing that I was just over my 1 yr. warranty, they were willing to grant an exception to fix the machine under warranty and let me purchase the two year extended plan, which (all things considered) is a good deal when you're facing replacing the print head. The techs were out the next day to fix it. I suppose I couldn't be happier unless a better understanding of these issues were to be had.

[Eric Gulbransen]

I suppose I couldn't be happier unless a better understanding of these issues were to be had.

It's coming James.  A better understanding of these issues is around the corner.

...now if I just knew how long this corner was

[Mark D Segal]

Well, I have an update. I called Epson back, and seeing that I was just over my 1 yr. warranty, they were willing to grant an exception to fix the machine under warranty and let me purchase the two year extended plan, which (all things considered) is a good deal when you're facing replacing the print head. The techs were out the next day to fix it. I suppose I couldn't be happier unless a better understanding of these issues were to be had.

Did the tech offer any explanation of what was wrong?

[Mark D Segal]

It is believed that the basic design of the x900 head is the same as for the x890.  As a matter of fact, I have found in my research, 1 case of x890 affected by the LLK syndrom.

The value of your research is of course limited by the quality and scope of the data base you have access to. It is a good idea to remind your readers of these limitations. As for "syndrome", whether such a situation constitutes a "syndrome" depends on the facts underlying the value of the research.

[Ken Doo]

Well, I have an update. I called Epson back, and seeing that I was just over my 1 yr. warranty, they were willing to grant an exception to fix the machine under warranty and let me purchase the two year extended plan, which (all things considered) is a good deal when you're facing replacing the print head. The techs were out the next day to fix it. I suppose I couldn't be happier unless a better understanding of these issues were to be had.

That sounds like a very fair and equitable solution.  I plan on extending the warranty on my 9900----no problems so far, and I hope it's the biggest waste of money!   

[James Haswell]

Nope. No words of wisdom, but I was actually out of the shop for the day. They showed up within 12 hours of my phone call to EPSON. They changed the head directly, no playing around.

[John R Smith]

Well, I have an update. I called Epson back, and seeing that I was just over my 1 yr. warranty, they were willing to grant an exception to fix the machine under warranty and let me purchase the two year extended plan, which (all things considered) is a good deal when you're facing replacing the print head. The techs were out the next day to fix it. I suppose I couldn't be happier unless a better understanding of these issues were to be had.

I don't know, but all of this just seems ridiculous to me. Surely you shouldn't ever expect to have to replace the print head after only a year of usage? That's like having to put a new engine in your car after 10,000 miles and everyone at the garage saying this is quite normal, sir.

John

[Mark D Segal]

I don't know, but all of this just seems ridiculous to me. Surely you shouldn't ever expect to have to replace the print head after only a year of usage? That's like having to put a new engine in your car after 10,000 miles and everyone at the garage saying this is quite normal, sir.

John

There's nothing ridiculous. Until you know the total number of machines that have had this kind of failure and the intensity of their use relative to all the 7900s that have been sold world-wide from the day the model was introduced to now and the intensity of their use, you have no way of knowing whether the failure rate is above or below that expected for the model. All equipment has expected failure rates. It's only when a piece of equipment exhibits failure rates above the expected value that there is what the industry would consider to be a problem. The main thing is whether the company makes good on its warranty, and in this case it would appear that Epson has more than done so. It's nice to read of stories with happy endings. Still keeping my eyes open for the final episode of Eric's saga! :-)

[Alan Goldhammer]

I would only add to Mark's point that MTBF (mean time before failure) was a key issue in evaluating disk drives in the early PC days.  Some manufacturers had real problems with lots of drive failures (I had a Compaq computer that went through three drives in 18 months).  These days drives are much more stable and failures are rare (don't get complacent, back up every week).  We really don't know what Epson's MTBF for the print head is.

[DeanChriss]

As another point of information, I was away recently and my 7900 was turned off for four weeks. There were some clogs when I turned it on. These "clogs" moved all around on consecutive cleanings of various color pairs, but after perhaps 4 such cleanings not all the nozzles were clear. I removed the wiper (wearing powder-free latex gloves so as not to contaminate it) and found it had a lot of "gunk" on it, consisting of liquid ink and particles of dry ink. It's easy to see how this thing wiping over the head would clear some nozzles while depositing junk in front of others. I cleaned the wiper as best I could with a dry PecPad, which is lint-free. I didn't use solvent because I didn't know what could safely be used on the blade. Of note is the fact that the wiper blade itself was in perfect condition after being in service for 38 months. I reinstalled the wiper and one cleaning then cleared all the remaining clogs.

[John R Smith]

There's nothing ridiculous . . .

Yes, Mark, fair comments. Unless you know the service history behind a failure it is pointless to speculate, of course. It's also possible that you can get this sort of failure because you haven't used the printer enough, perhaps.

John

[Eric Gulbransen]

Thanks for that Dean.  Good information & experience

[Gemmtech]

It is true that we can design a mechanical device to never fail, however it would be cost prohibitive to do so.  Every device can fail and the more complicated a device the more likely it will fail.  Imagine spending $80K for a Mercedes and having the transmission go south and the MB rep telling you "This never happens, there's not a transmission in the USA because they never break down", but they do, even after 195 miles.  I know a lot of people are happy with their Apple products, I have about a 50% failure rate with Apple products, I'm positive Apple doesn't have a 50% failure rate.  And it's difficult to determine via these types of forums because people are more apt to complain than commend.    Anecdotally one could surmise Epson does have a major issue with clogging, however to be fair, my 3880 I just fired up for the first time in 3-4 months, I did a nozzle check and it was perfect, printed some photos, not a problem.  The clogging issue does seem to be a problem with the large format printers and I'd be curious as to why?  I wouldn't expect a printer to have the print head go bad within 1 year, but if it did, it wouldn't surprise me.

"Those who always have great expectations are usually disappointed and those who never expect anything are always pleasantly surprised"

I'm totally surprised that my Epson 1280 is still running since 2001.... I was hoping it would last for a few years...

It's OK to be a little frustrated and upset when something breaks that we hope won't, however put it into perspective.

[deanwork]

This is a lot of non-sense talk. I had an Epson 10K that I ran for 12 years with the same heads, and I specialized in using cotton rag Hahnemuhle media with all the nasty cotton fiber. Hundereds and hundreds of rolls of everything went through that machine. Every other 10k I heard about functioned the same way.  Actually I ran absolutely everything trough it including kozo papers etc. It never once clogged more than would take one single standard head cleaning to clear, and even having to do that was rare. My two 9600s went for like 7 years without having to have heads replaced. I've also had many little epson desktop units that produced thousands of prints with alternative inks and rag papers and the heads NEVER went out on these either.

Epson makes good heads, that isn't the issue. The issue is this retarded pressurized system they designed for some of the latest printers. Everybody knows that. Even the Epson techs know that. Look, using that many big carts in one unit where the carts are inserted horizontally surely doesn't help. Maybe if the 10K had used 8 carts instead of 6 it would have had issues too. Whatever the cause of it, it isn't a problem with poorly made heads, it is a bad ink flow system and it's driving people nuts.

I've got a 9890 and it's been running great, but now all of a sudden out of nowhere my MK channel just totally disappeared causing a wasted day or two and more ink down the drain ( you can't just clear one channel you have to clean at least two at a time). I thought these new 890 series were immune to that. Guess I was wrong. If they want to fix something on the new versions, fix that.

john