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Author Topic: Epson 7900 from the inside - out  (Read 1082855 times)

Mark D Segal

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #320 on: February 12, 2012, 11:56:52 am »

..........Being more paranoid I guess I have printed out a daily nozzle check status and turned on my 7900 everyday (which I never did with my 7800 and it was fine) to stay on top of a possible problem. I will also do the wiper blade exchange in the near future. ........... 

I'd be interested in some clarity on the following questions relating to your experience with your recently acquired 7900: when did you get your 7900? For how many days now have you been printing the daily nozzle checks? What have the results been? Have you made any prints yet? What do the prints look like? What first-hand experience have you had or observed with YOUR printer that makes you think you need to change your wiper blade?
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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randal21

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #321 on: February 12, 2012, 03:45:05 pm »

I got the 7900 a month ago from a neighbor a mile away (we babied it home). He bought it new July 2010 and had 71 prints on it.  I read the pages last Sunday after my friend at sent me the link since he was the one who was initially happy about his 9900 until it looked like it may have expensive repair work after trying some solutions on his own. I was starting to have buyers remorse and the sweetness of the deal was becoming tarnished. I did a regular morning nozzle check printout and have only seen great results. I print regularly but don't want to turn the 7900 on everyday due to being paranoid it will clog if I don't. I called the previous owner and asked him the longest he went without turning it on and he said a couple of weeks. He had it set on an automatic nozzle check/clean which I have turned off. It makes great prints and can see a subtle difference than my 7800. I mainly had issues with out of gamut colors on my 7800 as well as the Apple operating system possibly causing color management issues. I don't have any issues with the printer and just want to be aware of potential problems/issues and their solutions as a minimum $1000 service call is not what I live for. Hope this helps. My 7800 spoiled me; I know there are 100's of 7900/9900 owners with no problems and want mine to be as trustworthy as I have been used to. I don't think I can get the new 7800 owner of my machine to let go of it as he loves it! 
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #322 on: February 12, 2012, 03:50:34 pm »

All that sounds fine. I would recommend forgetting about the wiper blade and forget about ANY fiddling around inside the machine unless real trouble erupts - and then be real careful about what you do so you don't compound the problem. Your preventive measures sound sensible to me, especially as you don't need to print with it every day. x900s are meant to be production machines.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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gwhitf

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #323 on: February 12, 2012, 04:39:20 pm »

x900s are meant to be production machines.

It would be interesting to know how many 7900's are production machines, and how many are used for lower volume. You'd almost wonder if a more consumer-friendly version of a 24" printer might be desirable; something like a big brother to a 3880. It's a bit off-putting to think these 7900's are so delicate that you have to turn them on and off every single day in order to avoid a printhead disaster.
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randal21

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #324 on: February 12, 2012, 04:53:06 pm »

What would you define a production machine mark? I am a photographer who also prints for other artists. Sometimes I print very little and other times I run the printer all day. Is there a print qty amount that ones use? 
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Mr.Gale

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #325 on: February 12, 2012, 05:05:35 pm »

It would be interesting to know how many 7900's are production machines, and how many are used for lower volume. You'd almost wonder if a more consumer-friendly version of a 24" printer might be desirable; something like a big brother to a 3880. It's a bit off-putting to think these 7900's are so delicate that you have to turn them on and off every single day in order to avoid a printhead disaster.

I have a 9900 and after reading this thread I decided I should check mine. It hasn't been on for more than a month and I have auto check/clean turned off, ran a nozzle check and it is perfect. IMO what you usually read on forums (not only here) are those that are having problems and seldom from those who are not. I have owned a 7600 and a 9600 before buying the 9900 (used) and it is by far the best printer of the three and has been problem free, but you never know :-).

Gale
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #326 on: February 12, 2012, 05:09:13 pm »

What would you define a production machine mark? I am a photographer who also prints for other artists. Sometimes I print very little and other times I run the printer all day. Is there a print qty amount that ones use? 

A production machine normally means that it spends some time every day actually making prints. I have a 4900 and find that it can sit turned off for 3 or 4 days without needing to be cleaned, but beyond that it will need a light cleaning to get all the nozzles laying ink on paper. If I use it daily, there are fewer cleaning cycles.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Eric Gulbransen

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #327 on: February 12, 2012, 05:11:40 pm »

It is so great to hear good news like this thank you very much for sharing it.  I've had this looming feeling of doom hanging over my head for a while now.  Like if we get ours working somehow how long will it last?  Maybe it's not worth fixing?  Etc. etc.  I am very glad to hear not only about your good experiences, but also in other new threads.  What a relief

jeverton

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #328 on: February 12, 2012, 08:54:27 pm »

I did a regular morning nozzle check printout and have only seen great results. I print regularly but don't want to turn the 7900 on everyday due to being paranoid it will clog if I don't.

One question has been puzzling to me… Do you leave the wide format printer on or off?  What is the manufacture’s recommendation?  What does your experience or the distributor tell you?  If you turn off the printer for a period of time and then power up the unit… Are you more likely to experience clogging?
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randal21

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #329 on: February 13, 2012, 01:06:09 am »

I usually turn the printer off at night. Always did this with my 7800 for years. Not sure what Epson recommends. Once I turn it on in the morning I leave it on as it goes into a sleeper mode. Starting today I did not print out a nozzle check status and will probably move it to a weekly or every 10 days routine. I really am starting to believe the reported issues are the exception to the norm and there are alot of happy running 7900/9900 machines out there in use and may never have any problems. Let's hope I'm right.
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enduser

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #330 on: February 13, 2012, 07:48:16 am »

I know this is an Epson thread, but a few things I know about my Canon 6100 might be worth sharing.  A Canon distributer told me never to continue printing after the menu tells me the cartridge hasn't enough ink to finish the job.. It's possible to continue because the menu offers that choice.  The risk is the ink will then completely empty during the print, and the head will suffer overheating and nozzle damage due to no cooling by the flow of ink.  I'm not sure if  Epsons allow the printing to continue like that, so I offer the info for what it's worth.

The Canons perform much better if left on, they wake up at odd times and when they do the panel says "Agitating" or "Checking temperature and humidity" or "Nozzle check".  Leaving it on also consumes less ink than only turning it on to do a print.

I recall earlier in this thread a discussion about the electrical impulses that force the  piezo operation which shoots the ink from the nozzles.  Later discussion seems to be more about clogging than electrical or piezo failure.  Are we closer to knowing which really is the most likely cause of failure?
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rothberg

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #331 on: February 13, 2012, 08:04:24 am »

I have read this thread with great interest and wish to share my thanks along with many others for the OP's courage and open discussion of his clogging problem and solutions (and the delightful video).  I own a 7900 and a 4900 and have owned Epson printers back to the dark recesses of time. I replace them about every third generation (my last 24" printer was the 7600) With acknowledged fear (or superstition) for breaking that which does not need to be fixed, I am happy to report that I have never had a clog that was not easily cleaned.
My printers are certainly "light duty". If I am not planning to use the 7900 in the next 24 hours I turn it off.  Sometimes it remains off for a week or more. The 4900 powers itself off after about 6 hours of idle time. My studio is in a non climate controlled basement and both printers are within 15 feet of a oil fired furnace which produces prodigious amounts of dust and ash. I do not cover either printer when not in use. Epson printers just seem to work, at least for me.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2012, 08:48:47 am by rothberg »
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #332 on: February 13, 2012, 08:07:37 am »

This is not an Epson issue. There is always ink left in the cartridge after the system forces you to change the cartridge for exactly this reason.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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clic

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #333 on: February 13, 2012, 10:52:48 am »

A few observations:

* "x900s are meant to be production machines."  Where is this coming from?  Where is the evidence?  If that is so, then Epson would need to make that clear as not to sell printers to people who clearly would not "qualify" to use/own one.  As a matter of fact, I have talked to Epson management people and they clearly expressed interest in selling these printers to more than just "production" folks, so I guess that it is safe to write that Epson never intended x900 printers to be only production machines.


* Eric, you don't have a clog anymore, and your current situation is probably not due to a clog.  As posted much earlier in this epic saga, I have collected data that so far shows that most printers affected by this "dead head syndrom," have that occur in LLK.  So, yes, especially with this thread, we learn that other colors can be affected too, albeit so far not cyan for instance, one of the most clog prone color in the x900.  Beyond that, verified experimentation establishes that LLK hardens much less than cyan for instance, it remains more fluid much longer.  It is therefore nonsensical to imagine that it could clog more, and as a matter of fact, most users would agree that LLK clogs less than most other colors, especially cyan and yellow for instance.  This goes further in demonstrating that typically a head failure on the LLK channel cannot be caused from actual clogging. Now we do not know if Eric's case is exactly similar as far as the causes go, but I tend to think that it has the same symptoms, except for the color(s) and that it therefore is likely to be actually the same problem on different colors.


* Eric and the rest of us affected by this have a head with either premature delamination, most likely in the upper chamber, or fried nozzle connections.  A good way to eliminate the delamination theory would be indeed to flush thoroughly the head from the nozzles out, reinstall it and see if anything has changed?  If delamination is the cause, then surely flushing the head with cleaner in the opposite direction as the normal flow, should have a tendency to clean the particles that presumably obstruct the filter before the nozzles.  If delamination is the problem, then surely such a job would change the situation, the physical obstruction would have a tendency to either be expelled, or at least move.  So by comparing a nozzle check done before and after, there should be a noticeable difference.


* But I am leaning more toward a "frying" of the nozzles'connections, as the issue does not seem completely in line with the normal symptoms and behavior of delamination.  Except that the frying could not possibly due to blockage or heat, given what I have observed both in my printer and the rest of the cases that I know.

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Ken Doo

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #334 on: February 13, 2012, 11:52:04 am »

A few observations:

* "x900s are meant to be production machines."  Where is this coming from?  Where is the evidence?  If that is so, then Epson would need to make that clear as not to sell printers to people who clearly would not "qualify" to use/own one.  As a matter of fact, I have talked to Epson management people and they clearly expressed interest in selling these printers to more than just "production" folks, so I guess that it is safe to write that Epson never intended x900 printers to be only production machines.

....

I think this comes from the basic premise that in general these Epson printers need or like to be used.  They simply run better---unless you like doing multiple nozzle checks and cleanings.  And the time in between usage that the printer can sit unused (imho) is a variable that varies greatly with environmental factors, humidity, etc. of individual users.  Even a car if left garaged (unused) needs servicing---fluids breakdown, battery drains, etc).  I would guess Epson doesn't care if the end-user is in a "production" environment or not.  The business model is just to sell relatively inexpensive pro-printers and ink.  It's up to the user to determine how to make the best of their printers and maintain.  And yes, I think it'd be helpful to have an Epson recommended tips/maintainance/service schedule.  Until then---we have Eric and this forum.   ;)

So, in my "production environment" I do try my best to run at minimum a nozzle check on days I'm not printing.  I shut off the printer each day.  I do wonder about printer utilities like www.harveyheadcleaner.com (runs nozzle checks automatically) for times when I leave the studio for days/weeks at a time on vacation/assignments.  Humidity kept between 40-60%.  Carefully vacuum media roll ends and printer areas with dust from canvas and fine art papers.  And now with Eric's shared experience here I will be occasionally inspecting and cleaning the wiper---as well as replacing it after about a year or so.  That much I can do----and I've had basically a great trouble-free experience with my more-finicky 9900 (than 9800) thus far.  And I suspect that is what the vast majority of 49/79/9900 users experience: a great printer.  But I also believe in doing the little things noted above helps to protect my investment and keep my 9900 running, just as I would with any other piece of equipment in my studio.

This is not to say that those that do suffer clogs/difficulties with their printer are necessarily to blame or to diminish their frustations.  But I do believe the vast majority of 49/79/9900 users don't experience these mortal printer head deaths, and do enjoy their Epson printers.  I do appreciate those that have had difficulties with their printers, sharing their experiences so everyone else can perhaps learn from their experiences.  So I am thankful for Eric's detailed breakdown and experience.  I can now confidently clean my wiper and replace it.  Anything more and I know quite confidently I'll be calling on Decision One.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2012, 11:55:59 am by kdphotography »
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Eric Gulbransen

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #335 on: February 13, 2012, 12:52:27 pm »

A few observations:

...

* Eric, you don't have a clog anymore, and your current situation is probably not due to a clog....

* Eric and the rest of us affected by this have a head with either premature delamination, most likely in the upper chamber, or fried nozzle connections...


I want to understand you better;  You are saying I "don't have a clog anymore", but at one point I did?  And my current situation is probably not due to a clog, but rather fried electrics?

Just so I am clear(er) here is my experience:  Purchase machine used / first print a nozzle check - PK clog, YW group-clogging / many cleanings later "clogs" gradually get worse, not ever better / remove printhead, soak-etc, reinstall / clogs exactly the same. 

At this point I lean more toward the problem in our 7900 printhead being fried electrics.  BUT...  there is one lingering piece of this puzzle which may not match up with the fried electrics theory so appropriately - the "clogs" have ever so gradually gotten worse.  Grown, if you will, like a virus.  From my experiences electric failures happen two ways;  1 - total blackness indicating what in this case would be a dead nozzle, or 2 -  intermittent temporary failures, or reduction in power, due to faulty connections.

So I don't know.  To me my clogs grew organically.  They didn't appear like an electric failure would.  That's just my gut feeling.  Not scientific.  I am probably wrong.  But I expect an electronic failure would be brought on by overheating.  If one nozzle had failed electronically it would produce no heat - therefore it would not jeopardize the life of the nozzles surrounding it (at least not from overheating).  But I definitely can see a clog which was formed by dried or gummy tar completely blocking the nozzle from behind, growing like a virus and affecting other nozzle around it.

I do not understand what you mean by "delaminating".  I know what the word means, I just don't know what elements of these printheads are laminated.  Could you please explain more about this?  Because delaminating I can definitely also see as something which would slowly grow, like our clogs did.

jeverton

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #336 on: February 13, 2012, 02:31:50 pm »

Some interesting reading...

US Patent Application 20100007706 - LIQUID EJECTING HEAD, LIQUID EJECTING APPARATUS, AND PIEZOELECTRIC ELEMENT - http://www.patentstorm.us/applications/20100007706/fulltexhtml

Inkjet Printheads
http://mindmachine.co.uk/book/print_42_inkjet_heads.html

J
« Last Edit: February 13, 2012, 02:37:22 pm by jeverton »
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Eric Gulbransen

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #337 on: February 13, 2012, 03:30:48 pm »

Nine to five I am a carpenter.  I live the life of a thug. A heavy steel framing hammer hangs from my belt.  Something won't go in, won't go up, or won't come down - it gets smashed.  Life is very simple.  Things makes sense.

Five to nine I am a husband and a step-father, to a rebellious 19 year old boy.  I live the life of finesse.  No framing hammer hangs from my belt.  Something won't go in, won't go up, or won't come down - I can't smash it.  Life is very complicated.  Little makes sense

...and then I met my Epson Stylus Pro 7900, which doesn't work.  So I traded my clumsy thug of a framing hammer for the finesse of my fine-tipped philips head screwdriver.  "If it doesn't work I will learn how it does.  If it's broken I will fix it.  I hope."  

Two months ago I came to Luminous Landscape to learn.  Two weeks ago I came to share.  I never expected the monsoon of learning we would all soon unleash.  But somehow after all this learning, after all this sharing, and especially after all this speculation - two remarkable things remain:  We still don't have the answer.  I still dream of finding it.

So it's time I think I trade this gentle philips head screwdriver for my trusty thug of a framing hammer..

What if Ernst is right?  What if this might still be a clog, and possibly not electric at all?

LARGE BOLD PRINT HERE, I'M GOING OUT ON A LIMB...

I followed Chadd's advice and called the Print Head Doctor.  Asked about his machine, our x900 heads, our ink, our clogs, and then for his advice:

Eric - WTF is wrong with my printhead?

printheaddoctor.com - Could be it is clogged.  With those Epson heads we have 100% success cleaning, but only 60% success with them working again - because 40% of the time the problem is electrics, not clogs.

Eric - Do you perform the cleanings?

printheaddoctor.com - No we do not.  We only sell the machines.

Eric - How much are these ultrasonic printhead cleaning machines?

printheaddoctor.com - $1,700, plus you need a specific adapter for your printhead.  Yours is $250.  Then you need the cleaning solution.  We have four grades.

Eric - So it's two grand for your machine

printheaddoctor.com - Yes

Eric - But it's $1800 for a new printhead

printheaddoctor.com - Yes I know that.  You wouldn't buy this machine to fix one head one time.  It would be to service many.

Eric - That's a big ask - $2,000 when I don't know if it will work.  How about I make you a deal?  

printheaddoctor.com - I am listening

Eric - I will mail you my head, you clean it with your machine and send it back to me.  I will install it in my machine.  If it prints like new I will buy your machine, then I will fix all the un-clearable clogs in the printheads of all my friends on this tiny web forum which nobody ever reads.  Deal?

printheaddoctor.com - Deal




I do not know how long this will take but I just mailed my Epson 7900 printhead.  So we will all know for sure in time exactly what the problem with the printhead on this Epson 7900 is.  If it's electrical the "clogs" will remain.  If they shoot clear the clogs were simply clogs.

...I love my framing hammer
« Last Edit: February 13, 2012, 03:35:04 pm by Go394 »
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Randy Carone

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #338 on: February 13, 2012, 04:13:06 pm »

Let's hope when you get it back it's not "Hammer Time" :)


"Can't touch this..."
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Randy Carone

jeverton

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #339 on: February 13, 2012, 04:54:39 pm »

printheaddoctor.com - Could be it is clogged.  With those Epson heads we have 100% success cleaning, but only 60% success with them working again - because 40% of the time the problem is electrics, not clogs.

Wow!  I can’t wait for the final verdict.  Any side bets on the outcome???
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