Which View cameras and digital backs?

[TH_Alpa]

You're welcome.

The Tilt/Swing option for short FL lenses is planed any time from now till latest June.

We are in the process to appoint an Alpa dealer currently. For the time being it would be good to take contact with Alpa directly, at alpa@alpa.ch

Best regards
Thierry

Thanks Thierry.
Does this mean that I can confidently consider buying the Alpa within the next month?
If so. Pls let me know who the dealer is in India. Or do I need to make a trip some where
To make the purchase?

[mjon]

Arca swiss RM3D  : No Swing on the front standard (does the RL3d have this feature?)

With the revised/current version, the RM3di, you can have either tilt or swing: you remove the front of the body, rotate it by 90 degrees and insert it again.

[EricWHiss]

"...had all the movements but you could simply not see what was happening on the tiny GG."

I have the X-Act2 and find that some what true, depending on which lens and what lighting is used.   I can't speak for the IQ but can say that when shooting tethered to a laptop, the Leaf AFi-ii 12 live view is quite workable. The live view on the hasselblad  CF 528 is not as good, but it does have the focusing aid where you can pick your focus point and it tracks your focus with a graph and audio signal.       The X-Act2 has a rear curtain leather bellows that accommodates the use of wider lenses, however the front and rear standards still end up being fairly close to each other with really wide lenses without retrofocal elements which somewhat limits the range of movement.   

Another point besides the camera selection to consider is to look at which backs+software handle color cast with wide lenses better as surely you will encounter this. 

[Gary Ferguson]

Some really good points being made here.

I use a Linhof M679cs with a Phase One P65+. The way I look at is that large format digital is still a work in progress. Bit by bit the gaps are being filled (for example look at the improvements in lenses over the past five or so years), but there's still a way to go before the basics are acceptably well sorted out.

The core problem that I still experience is focusing, especially when employing movements.

Ground glass on 4"x5" cameras with a x4 or x5 loupe worked adequately well. But we've still got what are essentially the same ground glass screens, except now we really need x12 or x15 loupes. But go much above about x7 and all you see the grain of the glass.

Live view could change all that. But currently it's not available. Certainly I don't consider the IQ 180 as delivering useable live view, if it did I'd have upgraded. I'm not an engineer, but as I understand we won't get true live view until there are medium format CMOS sensors. I hear regular comments from Phase One dealers and staff that strongly suggest CMOS is in active development, I'm sure the big sites like this have better information, but I'm equally sure non disclosure agreements prevent any comments.

The next problem is the stability and precision of the cameras.

I don't want to get into a debate about brands, but the way I look at it is this, if a Linhof M679cs isn't quite rigid/precise enough for digital (and it isn't) then no similarly designed camera is likely to be up to the job either. The Alpa style design offers more precision, but at the price of movement restrictions and additional focusing inconveniences.

Once live view's available then perhaps LF digital can start to come of age, with cameras moving more in the direction of Alpa style designs, discarding sliding backs or the requirement to mount and unmount backs, and composition and focusing being chiefly achieved via live view.

Until then LF digital remains a compromised work in progress. I'm still using it, and still enjoying my photography, but I honestly think we've a way to go yet.

[EricWHiss]

... but the way I look at it is this, if a Linhof M679cs isn't quite rigid/precise enough for digital (and it isn't) then no similarly designed camera is likely to be up to the job either.

That's interesting to read.  Can you add a bit more detail?   I have noticed that the addition of a sliding back to the X-Act2 and a heavy back and finder combo can cause the X-Act2 to sag a tiny amount which obviously isn't desirable though easy enough to work around.   I had been looking at the Linhof 679 as something to consider....

[cunim]

I use an Alpa Max when I just need to shift.  Sometimes I tilt the 90mm with it though I find reconfiguring the tilt adapter and wood handles for rear mounting a pain.  Lovely simple camera and the helical is good with any focal length. 

I ended up using an Arca Monolith when I need lots of movement.  All movements on both standards and has reasonable precision.  Of course, I would like a finer focus gearing and my shortest lens on it is 70mm.  Would love to try a 50mm, but the standards would probably get in the way of moving much.

To tell the truth, though, I have never really managed complex movements with the Arca.  I can combine tilt and shift/rise, but combining tilt and swing is just too uncertain - even thethered.  Focus visualization remains the problem.  The thing I like best about the Arca is that, as a studio camera, I have Rollei shutters on most of the lenses.  I find that makes shooting variants for blends and stacking easier.

[Satyajit]

Thanks to all for the inputs.
I'd like to let you all know that I have finally decided to go with the Linhof Techno and the IQ180.

One thing I'd like some feed back on is the use of Electronic Shutters. I would ideally like to have three shutters for each of my three lenses. But that seems to be working out very expensive.
SO I plan to buy just one electronic shutter and use it only for situations that demand easy access (like when I shoot using a motion rig from a height).

Is there a a consequence on the lens coming up with problems if I, once in a while, keep removing and refitting them to different shutters?

[EricWHiss]

One thing I'd like some feed back on is the use of Electronic Shutters.

Is there a a consequence on the lens coming up with problems if I, once in a while, keep removing and refitting them to different shutters?

Others will have more precise feedback, but I've changed a few without noticeable effects ( at least so far  ). Schneider will tell you they are calibrated at factory and shouldn't be removed, but I did and there are not any shims in the ones I've seen.  The elements can be turned less or further in depending on tightness - which you'd ideally want to strive to keep the same.

[cunim]

You mention needing easy access as a reason to use the electronic shutter.  Is the camera at a height with you tethered on the ground, or are both of you up there?

Eshutters need lots of fiddling, especially with a Phase back.  Amazingly, C1 has no shutter control.  The Rollei needs its controller to be close to the lens and you need to be there to twist knobs and push buttons.  The Schneider (beside being slow) has a bunch of cabling and independent software running on the computer.  I think the new Sinar is similar.  None of this is well integrated with the tethering system.

The only way to make using a MF eshutter convenient (that I know of) is to get a Hasselblad.  Shutter control is nicely integrated into Phocus, though you still need to have the Rollei controller - and a power supply - by the lens.  At least it is controlled via firewire and you don't have to futz with it.

[Satyajit]

You mention needing easy access as a reason to use the electronic shutter.  Is the camera at a height with you tethered on the ground, or are both of you up there?

Most situations, camera is a little higher than where I am. Since I do use nd filters I could find it difficult to lunge and cork the shutter and open the aperture etc. I am ok even if it's not tethered, or with the laptop away from me a bit. The objective is to operate the aperture and shutter functions without having to lunge or stretch where I run the risk of moving the camera or filters. 
This is going to be my first experience with view camera, digital back and eshutter combination.

I did not get the part about the Hasselblad. I have worked with phocus, but how does it figure in a view camera set up?
Thanks for the inputs.

[cunim]

I did not get the part about the Hasselblad. I have worked with phocus, but how does it figure in a view camera set up?
Thanks for the inputs.

Phocus communicates with the Rollei shutter controller via special cable.  You can set aperture, time, initiate "live view", etc., all from Phocus.  With the motorized lenses you can also focus on the computer.   C1 doesn't do any of this.  You have to use the Rollei LCS itself to control the eshutter - which means you have to be right beside the LCS.

That's fine, as long as you do not have to be more than a couple of feet from the camera.  The connection cable between the LCS unit and the lens is short so you can't be on the ground, for example, manipulating the LCS up on a dolly.  That's why we are always looking for a simple app that replaces the LCS with wireless shutter control.  Sinar may have that under way with their new shutter but I have no experience with it.

[EricWHiss]

Just to add to Cunim's post - even Hasselblads older software Flexcolor is really well integrated for use with technical cameras and electronic shutters.  The rollei shutters are the fastest at 1/500th and very good.   Phocus and Flexcolor record shutter and aperture values in the EXIF too which is another thing C1 can't.   The software integration ... It's a reason to consider a Hasselblad back by itself if you use the technical camera for most of your work.     

[yaya]

Worth noting that with Leaf backs both C1 and LC provide the basic controls for the Rollei and Schneider electronic shutters

Leaf Capture opens the shutter for Live View and you can then take a shot directrly from there, it'll close the lens and release the shutter for you

It also has the DOF button for the Rollei just like on the controller

[Satyajit]

Worth noting that with Leaf backs both C1 and LC provide the basic controls for the Rollei and Schneider electronic shutters

Leaf Capture opens the shutter for Live View and you can then take a shot directrly from there, it'll close the lens and release the shutter for you

It also has the DOF button for the Rollei just like on the controller

WOW, this  puts me in a dilemna.
How is it that the electronic shutter controls works in C1 for LEAF and not for Capture one backs themselves? Strange isn't it?
I had just decided to buy the IQ180

[cunim]

WOW, this  puts me in a dilemna.
How is it that the electronic shutter controls works in C1 for LEAF and not for Capture one backs themselves? Strange isn't it?
I had just decided to buy the IQ180

I don't mean to discourage you from trying any back.  There are things I miss about the Blad and things I don't.  I would like to have a look at the new Rodenstock eshutters (Sinar).  They claim you can control shutter functions from an iphone and that would do nicely if a sync pulse goes to the back.  Sadly, things rarely work as they claim.

[Gary Ferguson]

That's interesting to read.  Can you add a bit more detail?   I have noticed that the addition of a sliding back to the X-Act2 and a heavy back and finder combo can cause the X-Act2 to sag a tiny amount which obviously isn't desirable though easy enough to work around.   I had been looking at the Linhof 679 as something to consider....

Eric, I haven't noticed the Linhof M679cs sagging with the sliding back, but I have noticed that in a reasonably strong breeze the addition of the sliding back can make the entire camera vibrate. It's not immediately obvious, but I was aware that in breezy conditions I was seeing a small drop in image quality on longer shutter speeds, switching to the fixed back cured this. So I made a crude "stethoscope" from rolled up paper and applied it to the camera body during a decent force six to seven wind, and you could detect a slight fluttering vibration. I fairness I think this problem afflicts all large format photography, digital and traditional, but with traditional the smaller enlargement factors tended to obscure it.

[Satyajit]

Hello everybody,
The Linhof Techno, IQ 180 with 43 and 120 SK lenses are here!!
The SK 70mm is on its way.

Thanks to everyone of you who have been part of this great adventure for me.
More than just information, it's been great learning.
I would continue to learn......

I am a bit overwhelmed in every sense.
Emotionally, financially, technically and more...

I put together everything but am yet to do any serious tests.
Fortunately I have a very controlled shoot starting today where I'll put the kit to a real scenario test.
Luckily no client or agency will attend this shoot and breath down my neck!

I'll post results in a week or so.

Thanks again to all...

[mediumcool]

I am a bit overwhelmed in every sense.
Emotionally, financially, technically and more...

So, India’s government approved the big shift in forex? 

[Satyajit]

That's my dealers problem.
I am not dealing with any forex!!

[Kumar]

So, India’s government approved the big shift in forex? 

Actually, it's not been a problem for some years now.

Kumar