Need to buy a digital Rangefinder. Help!

Sony NEX-3 body + Leica/Voigtlander lens with an adapter.

1 (12.5%)

Epson R-D1 + Cheaper Lens

1 (12.5%)

Another Solution

6 (75%)

Total Members Voted: 8

[gazoo]

Dear everybody

I'm a bit of dilemma right now. I'm selling some of my medium format gear, in order to buy a good rangefinder camera (something I can carry around). My budget is about 1900 (with a little bit of flexibility), and I need to get the rangefinder that, first of all gives me the best image quality, but also the best handling.

So here's my propositions:

Sony NEX-3 body (around 300 dollars), and Leica/Voigtlander lens with an adapter.
Epson R-D1 (around 1500 for the body), and a cheaper lens in the 300-400 dollar category.

Leica M8 is way too expensive

As for the lens, I'll need a wide angle one ala. 35mm or 28mm.

Thank you very much

Ben

[Stefan.Steib]

Get a Nex 7 if you can wait until next month.

Greetings from Munich
Stefan

[NikoJorj]

If you need something equivalent to 28-35mm in 24x36 (ie around 20mm with an APSC sensor), then you may get a Ricoh GXR with M module, 1k$ + 220$ EVF.
APSC sensor, microlenses adapted to oblique incoming rays (as in the M8/M9) may work better with 20mm lenses.

[gazoo]

The Ricoh GXR with M mount looks VERY interesting, but it cost almost the same as a used Epson R-D1.

Which one provides the best quality?

[AFairley]

Why not the Fuji X100 (if its quirks are acceptable to you)?

[gazoo]

X100 looks interesting. It's only 1000 dollars, but with a fixed lens right?

If you compare the X100 vs. R-D1 vs. Ricoh GXR A12 with a Voigtlander/Leica lens. Which one should I get?
Again, image quality is the most important factor. Control and handling goes next.

[Sareesh Sudhakaran]

Steve Huff Photos has an interesting comparison(s) for rangefinders. Hope this helps.

[stever]

i think this is a good time to be patient

tests of both the NEX 7 and Ricoh will be out in a couple months.  consider to subcribing to diglloyd.com

my guess is that the NEX 7 and 24 1.8 will be a winner (but i'm not going to buy until i see that the lens delivers resolution close to the sensor potential and that high ISO performance is reasonable).  so far, the tests of legacy full frame lenses on digital cameras have been mixed with results generally not proportional to the lens cost - check the photozone.de tests of NEX with legacy lenses

if you can live with 35mm equiv and put up with quirks, the X100 doesn't have any IQ negatives

[gazoo]

Hmm...I don't think I will wait for the Nex7. Do you know how much it will be?

The X100 delivers surprisingly good image quality, and it is cheaper (1000 dollar with the lens). The only question is, is it worth over R-D1 or Ricoh GXR M? I mean, it has no Leica Mount?

[NikoJorj]

Steve Huff Photos has an interesting comparison(s) for rangefinders. Hope this helps.

To help illustrate the problem with microlenses, see eg http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2011/09/10/crazy-comparison-sony-nex-5n-and-leica-m9-image-quality/ and the last set - NEX has some peculiar hazy rendition in the borders and corners.
I didn't see any such comparison with a Ricoh M module so far (but I didn't search a lot).

[Jim Pascoe]

Can we just clarify the question, because as far as I can see the only camera here that fits the description is the RD1, and possibly the x100.  Or are we just including all mirrorless cameras and not rangefinders?

Jim

[Ken Bennett]

If you need an actual rangefinder -- that is, a manual focus camera with a rangefinder focusing system - the only choices right now IIRC are the M8, M9, and the RD1.

If you want a compact camera that takes excellent photos, with a prime lens in the 35mm (equivalent) range, you have a lot more choices. The Fuji X100 meets those criteria, as does a micro 4/3 body with the 20mm Panasonic lens, and too several of the Sony NEX series.

I suspect that the Fuji X100 will provide better image quality than the RD1, especially at higher ISO values. However, if the overriding factor is the rangefinder focusing system, then, as noted above, your choices are far more limited.

[JeanMichel]

I think that using 'rangefinder' to describe cameras with a non-reflex optical viewfinder is not accurate. The rangefinder is used for focusing, not viewing. Early rangefinder cameras had separate windows for focusing with the rangefinder and for viewing. Large format cameras such as the Speed/Crown Graphics, Linhoffs,... also had a separate rangefinder for focusing.
As far as I know, the only currently available digital camera with a built-in rangefinder is the Leica (M8, M9) (the Epson DR1 also had a built-in rangefinder).
Digital camera with a non-reflex optical viewfinder such as the Fuji X100 and all sorts of compact cameras do not use a rangefinder for focusing.
Not trying to be picky, but since digital photography(ers) seems to be so focussed on absolute focussing accuracy we should also focus on accurate language 

Jean-Michel

[qwz]

NEX-5N ad maybe NEX-7 later

[uaiomex]

You only mention a moderate wide angle to go with it. Fuji X100 it is.
Eduardo

[gazoo]

You only mention a moderate wide angle to go with it. Fuji X100 it is.

I'm leaning more and more towards Fuji X100. But you know, it kinda feels like an amazing, but nevertheless 1000 dollar P&S camera. I just wish I could try it out first (nowhere to be found in San Diego).

[gazoo]

Okay, let's put it this way:
Are you better off with a X100 with the fixed lens OR a Ricoh GXR M/R-D1 with a good Leica/Voigtlander lens? Which one offers the best image quality?

[adanac]

I'm a recovering medium format film shooter who this year bought his first digital camera. I've bought others for my wife, but never for me.

I bought a X100. I've used it extensively since July and know it inside and out. The often talked about quirks largely have not got in my way. Image quality is very, very, good.

But I've just sold mine... because I just can't justify keeping a $1,100 (somewhat less used) camera around with a single fixed focal length.  Actually... that's not quite true, I sold it because I expect to be buying a NEX-7 which will be when it ships in middle November probably the only compact interchangeable lens camera with a built in high quality viewfinder.

You see the X100 has spoiled me -- I didn't buy any compact digital cameras until it showed up because non offered an integral viewfinder on the left hand side of the camera where I expect it. Sure, you can slap add-on viewfinders but now you are starting to impinge on the portability of the camera somewhat with an accessory that might get snagged and broken.

If the NEX-5n had an integrated viewfinder I might even have gone with that; users of that camera seem to be putting out comparable quality images to what the X100 can do, except they of course have lens choices where the X100 has none.

A NEX-7 with a cheap adapter would allow you to slap on Canon or Nikon or Contax or Olympus or Leica M or Leica L / screw mount or Pentax or Voigtlander or whatever ... 35mm SLR or range finder lenses. Vignetting isn't an issue with 35mm SLR lenses -- maybe start there first. That's what I'm attempting to do - I have a bunch of nice Yashica ML lenses and one Zeiss with C/Y mounts that I'll first be using on the NEX-7. Total cost comes way under your stated budget even if you need to pick up a couple used SLR lenses.

[adanac]

I just wish I could try it out first (nowhere to be found in San Diego).

Try Craigslist or whatever works for a used market in your town. You'll probably find a few up for sale. Be forewarned - the camera is very seductive when you first pick it up. You may find yourself rationalizing away any logical objections you may ever have had once you touch it.

Sure, it offers decent portability and great image quality in an attractive package. Just be sure the one-lens solution is appropriate for you.

Since you are coming from what I presume is a system environment (your medium format gear) is it making too much of an assumption to believe you eventually will feel hamstrung by the one-lens solution offered by the X100?

[memento]

From what I've read and seen – so please take it accordingly – the Ricoh module would surely outperform the R-D1. After all, it's a much more modern sensor with 12 instead of only 6 megapixels, and while the megapixel count is not everything, it still does matter somewhat – especially as 6 MP are really not that much! The R-D1 sensor was also used in the Nikon D70, for example. The Ricoh also has that special microlens layout developed for best performance with rangefinder lenses. This latter feature is missing on the Sony NEX series, as far as I know.

So, in terms of image quality, I would consider the Ricoh and the NEX. (The NEX-5 I have myself but did not use it with rangefinder lenses so far, so I can't really comment on that from first hand experience.)

The Fuji X1 also has the probably same 12 MP sensor of the Ricoh (after all, most of these sensors come from Sony anyway) and the lens is especially designed to work perfectly with that sensor, so the image quality is also very good. That is confirmed by all the samples I have seen so far.

If you really want a true rangefinder, however – R-D1, M8 or M9 – I would definitely rather get a Leica M8 instead of the R-D1. The M8 advantage is not only the much nicer designed body, but also the somewhat bigger sensor that does not crop that much out of the lenses image circle (1.37x crop factor instead of 1.5x). I have some experience with the M8 and love its low ISO quality as well as its handling.

Thomas