R2880 vs. R3000

[meyerweb]

A few days ago I asked about the R2000 vs. the R3000.  I've decided against the R2000. I never found metamerism on my prior printers to be a major problem for me, so I don't care that much about GLOP. And I do want the flexibility to print good B&W on occasion.

Since then, however, I've realized the 2880 will produce virtually the same output as the 3000 and I can get it for $140 cheaper, after rebates. Is the 3000 really worth the difference? A few pieces of info:

I'm not a high volume printer by any means.  I'm a hobbyist, not a pro, and don't print everything. So I think the smaller ink carts on the 2880 aren't an issue. In fact, they may be an advantage, since I won't have to worry so much about the inks settling out before the tanks empty.

I doubt that I'll be switching between matte and gloss paper much, if at all, so the need to swap ink tanks on the 2880 isn't a major issue, either.

I have read that paper handling on the 2880 is a problem. Is this true?  Is it only a problem with really thick media?

Given my usage patterns, is there a reason to prefer the 3000 to the 2880?

Many thanks.

[Schewe]

I never found metamerism on my prior printers to be a major problem for me, so I don't care that much about GLOP.

You might want to use the correct term...it's called gloss differential, not metamerism (which is the wrong terms because "metamerism" is what allows inks to replicate colors in ink–I think what you were trying to say was metameric failure–which is the inability for colors to appear the same under different spectral illumination). Gloss differential–the different in the gloss of the ink and paper is what the GLOP is intended to eliminate.

As for the differences between the 2880 and R 3000, it's a full generational difference between output. Will it be a huge difference? Can't tell you that other than to say the R3000 is the current state of the art for 13x19. If you want to buy old tech for a discount, feel free but there's a reason that the 2880 is less, it's old.

[meyerweb]

Thanks.  I just came back here to edit my post because I realized I used metamerism incorrectly.  What I meant to say was "bronzing." Oh, well.

[Schewe]

What I meant to say was "bronzing." Oh, well.

That's still incorrect...you will want to look up (and understand) the tree terms; metameric failure, gloss differential and bronzing (which is an actual flash of a bonze color when holding a print and moving it through a light source).

You really need to understand the terms you are asking about. The answers are really rather different...

[Ernst Dinkla]

Gloss difference and bronzing can in some cases be solved with a gloss enhancer ink but not always. The  HP Z3x00 models have a gloss enhancer that will solve gloss difference if used over the entire print but does not solve bronzing on many gloss papers. For the last the paper has to be more compatible, the HP OEM papers are usually better suited. The strange thing is that third party ink medium mixed with the HP Photo Black can deliver better B&W gloss prints without the use of gloss enhancer. Excellent gloss prints without the use of gloss enhancer are possible these days, Canon and Epson have shown that in more printer models.

The main distinction between a R2000 and R3000 will be in the better B&W prints of the last, the R2000 might have a wider color gamut though. The R3000 creates a 2 minimum picoliter droplet instead of the 3 picoliter minimum droplet of the R2880. The R2000 has kept the 1.5 picoliter droplet the R1900 already had.

The R3000 is the first A3+ model from Epson that has the carts separated from the head. Slightly larger carts too; 26 versus 11 ML of the R2880.  The black ink switch cycle PK>MK>PK  will give the same 6 ML ink waste the 3800 and 3880 have, about a quart of an R3000 cartridge content. I have no idea what is lost when ink is switched on an R2880 by exchanging black carts. The only Epson sub 17" models with carts separated from the head were the B5x0 and B3x0 office printers, the inkjet models created to compete with laser office printers on speed and economy. There are some Epson inkjet printers with an OEM CIS system distributed in Indonesia though.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst

New: Spectral plots of +250 inkjet papers:

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm

[Rawcoll]

Ever since new the paper loading on my R2880 printer has given me grief. As reported here and elsewhere, loading paper into the machine’s manual rear feeder slot required a certain ‘knack’ to avoid a mis-feed, a knack that I never seemed to acquire. My success rate was frustratingly poor and I was seriously thinking of ditching the machine for something more reliable, perhaps the R3000 if paper handling issues were improved.

I thought I'd discovered why my machine was being so disobedient. As a result of the machine shuffling the paper backwards and forwards prior to printing, I found that the rear sheet feeder becomes unseated from its fully home position (it is, after all, only ‘hung’ in place on plastic hooks). It doesn’t move by much, but it seems that this is sufficient to throw the paper out of alignment. I’d found that by holding the rear sheet feeder tray firmly in the fully seated position whilst the paper is shuffled out and in again, just prior to printing, I’d got essentially 100% feed success! It’s a little inconvenient (and frankly it should have been prevented from happening by design), but that is nothing compared to the intense irritation of mis-feed after mis-feed. Unfortunately, I might have rejoiced too soon, since on subsequent sessions the 'fix' hasn't always been successful. In any event, it never solved A3+ mis-feeds, but fortunately my paper of choice is Harman by Hahnemuhle Gloss Baryta, which, being a fairly flimsy paper, will go through the sheet feeder rather than the rear feeder.

I too would be interested to know how effective the paper handling is with the R3000.

Ian

[meyerweb]

Thanks again for the scolding on terminology.  

But except for Ian, no one's really attempted to address the advantages of the R3000 over the 2880 outside of the larger ink cartridges. Thank you Ian.

[Luca Ragogna]

I have a 2880 and I'm very happy with the output. I only really use it to print on Epson gloss or lustre paper and I use it for CD printing. On the rare occasion that I've tried to print on a heavier stock (Hahnemule 308 gsm photo rag, for instance) I was able to get a great print out but only after wasting $30 in paper and frustrating the hell out of myself. The paper handling is a weak point for this printer. If you intend on trying lots of different papers and might want to try heavier stock maybe the 2880 isn't for you. If you want to crank out 8x10s all day long on regular paper the 2880 is an excellent buy.

I have no experience with the R3000 and can't comment on it.

[meyerweb]

Thanks Luca.  Paper handling seems to be the biggest complaint about the 2880 I've seen.  I don't expect to print on really heavy art stock, but I guess you never can tell.  I'm leaning toward swallowing the difference in price and getting the 3000.  The rebates go through October 1st, so I'll chew on this a little bit longer.

[Rawcoll]

I should perhaps add that as far as output goes I've been really impressed, even if it is 'old tech', and certainly far better than my old 2100 which uses the first generation Ultrachrome inkset.

Have a look at Keith Cooper's excellent articles on both the 2880 and 3000 on his Northlight Images website (http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/reviews/printer/epson_r3000.html)
Ian

[Rawcoll]

As an update, I see that Digital Outback Photo has published a review of the R3000 (http://www.outbackphoto.com/index_news.html) and is reported to have superior paper handling qualities than the R2880.

Ian

[meyerweb]

FYI, I ended up buying an R3000. The better paper handling was the major factor, but I also asked Epson tech support (for whatever that's worth) if the larger, non-moving ink tanks would be an issue if the printer was used infrequently.  Epson said run a nozzle check or sample print once a week if it's going to sit longer than that, and it won't be an issue.

[John Rodriguez]

FYI, I ended up buying an R3000. The better paper handling was the major factor, but I also asked Epson tech support (for whatever that's worth) if the larger, non-moving ink tanks would be an issue if the printer was used infrequently.  Epson said run a nozzle check or sample print once a week if it's going to sit longer than that, and it won't be an issue.

Good choice, I just upgraded from an R1900 to an 3880 and I'll never go back to the Hi Gloss 2 inkset again (used in the R2000). While gloss differential was solved by the optimizer, there was a good amount of color inconstancy, neutral BW prints just weren't possible and the gloss optimizer added additional reflectiveness.  With the 3880 I don't see any gloss differential or color inconstancy.  BW prints are neutral now and images aren't distracted by additional gloss. Color gamut is wider, not narrower with the K3 VM inks.