New forum suggestion - User Critiques Advanced?

[Dave (Isle of Skye)]

Hi all,

Do you think it could be beneficial to split the "User Critiques" section into two, with a free for all and a more advanced section?

I only say this because I read in a post the other week where it was suggested that some of us only post in here to Show off and wonder if this assumption (rightly or wrongly), might be putting off those who are just starting out, or who may not feel confident enough to post images here, in the misguided belief that they have to compete against more experienced photographers.

But before you all start blasting me out of the water or suggesting that I am saying my images are too good for this section as it stands, I genuinely am not, but at the same time neither would I want to think people are being put off from "having a go".

Only an idea - so what do you think?

Dave (UK)

[shutterpup]

I thought we already had this going on with the "without prejudice" thread?

[RSL]

Dave, If you spend more time in this section of LuLa you'll find people making all sorts of wild statements, like that idea that people post here to show off. Anybody who's going to post pictures here is just going to have to have a tough skin and slough off the stuff that's, to put it politely, not well thought out. If someone's "put off" by a stupid comment then he probably is too tender to be posting here.

[wolfnowl]

I'm with Russ.  If you don't want comments, don't post your work.  It's that simple.  There ARE quite a range of photographers here, but they also cover many different genres.  I wouldn't be comfortable commenting on a fashion shoot for example, because while I can tell if I like an image, it's not my style of work and I'm not privy to a lot of what goes on in the background.  I think subdividing the forum creates more of a caste system than leaving it as is.  Besides, if people post images they're proud of, that might count as 'showing off', but it doesn't mean anyone else will like it! 

My $0.02.  

Mike.

[Jeremy Roussak]

Dave, If you spend more time in this section of LuLa you'll find people making all sorts of wild statements, like that idea that people post here to show off. Anybody who's going to post pictures here is just going to have to have a tough skin and slough off the stuff that's, to put it politely, not well thought out. If someone's "put off" by a stupid comment then he probably is too tender to be posting here.

Absolutely right. As I've observed before, if I want unstinting praise, I'll show my photographs to my mother. I want to hear honest criticism: it helps me to improve my photography and it makes the occasional remarks of praise so much more gratifying. As Russ says, after spending some time reading comments, it's possible to learn whose opinions are worthy of particular respect.

Jeremy

[stamper]

Quote

in the misguided belief that they have to compete against more experienced photographers.

Unquote

I don't think anyone is competing against anyone else. An image posted is commented - or should be - purely on it's own merits. If I see an image then I don't really know how experienced the photographer is. The critique section isn't a competition similar to a camera club. A member should post and hope for the best.  A solution - if it is possible - is that an image could be posted without the poster's identity being known before hand, just as in a camera club. That would ensure a more objective appraisal but I don't know how it could be organised.

[Dave (Isle of Skye)]

I thought we already had this going on with the "without prejudice" thread?

I didn't think the thread you are refering to was discussing quite the same thing as I am suggesting here - but what the heck, it was only an idea that I thought might help those less confident to have a go.

Dave (UK)

[pegelli]

I actually like the free format of this section and for me increased "granularity" to section posters on experience (or style) would add anything.

If you comment here it's because you felt the urge to do so by looking at the image. It's an emotional process and I still haven't figured my own "criteria" for posting a reaction or not.

If you post here it's because you want to share and learn at the same time. You just take all the comments in (good, bad or ugly) and they all have value in looking at your own work from a different perspective. For me that's all that matters, only getting no comments at all feels bad, but even therein lies a message.

[stamper]

I didn't think the thread you are refering to was discussing quite the same thing as I am suggesting here - but what the heck, it was only an idea that I thought might help those less confident to have a go.

Dave (UK)

Dave, don't be disheartened. EVERYONE who has posted an image here has had their fair share of put downs. I have had my ego dented a few times but having been a past member of a camera club I was used to it. Most times the poster feels their image is better than the criticism because they are emotionally involved with their image. If you post and see that Slobodan and Pop n' fresh have replied take a couple of deep breadths before reading.  

[Jeremy Roussak]

...only getting no comments at all feels bad, but even therein lies a message.

Quite: it's worse to be ignored than to be criticised (thanks for noticing my "for the birds" shot, by the way!).

Jeremy

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

 

... If you post and see that Slobodan and Pop n' fresh have replied take a couple of deep breadths before reading.  

Thanks, buddy! I'll take it as a compliment... I guess... I hope... wait, what!? 

[JohnKoerner]

Dave,

I think people always do a bit of both when they post their photos (show off a bit and seek feedback).

While everyone enjoys a bit of praise, in speaking for my own experience, I have learned more through criticism and suggestion than by any any other means. The great thing about gaining the perspective of your peers (and especially the perspective of those with a lot more experience) is they can "see things" that you might not be able to see, even in your own images. In other words, sometimes your own face is "too close to the tree" to be able to see the woods.

That said, if a person is "afraid" to be criticized, then let him choose another vocation. I don't always agree with the criticism I get, but I appreciate anyone who is willing to type a few sincere words (be they praise or criticism) on what they see (or don't see) in my efforts. Gaining others' perspectives is (quite literally) what enables you to broaden your own vision, so IMO anyone who doesn't heartily welcome "that" isn't an honest person by nature, just a vain person.

Jack

PS: And, yeah, Slobodan may be a mouthy guy when he wants to be (), but he also is the kind of guy who, when I asked him for some help on how he went about re-working a photo I posted, took at least a few hours of his time to create and send me a 6-page .pdf instructional on how he rendered a version of my work, which to me is pretty rare these days. Sometimes the harshest critics can actually turn out to be your greatest teachers.


.

[shutterpup]

Actually, Slobodan has never been anything but helpful to me, something I really appreciated at the time. And some really interesting photography discussions get started here sometimes by the most difficult of pictures to evaluate. Even if you can't say something nice, say something; everything has it's merit in adding to discussion.

[popnfresh]

If you post and see that Slobodan and Pop n' fresh have replied take a couple of deep breadths before reading.  

I can't speak for Slobodan, but I don't take prisoners.   

[popnfresh]

I think it's really hard for people to read a critique of their work that doesn't gush with praise. It's almost like having a stranger be mean to your child. You work hard to take a photo and make it look its best. You like it. Your mom likes it. Your spouse likes it. Even your mother in law thinks it isn't too bad. And then someone like me comes along and says the lighting doesn't work or whatever and it's hard to read that kind of thing. And there's no guarantee that anyone here knows what they're talking about anyway. But those of us who post the pictures and those of us who try to honestly critique the pictures are just trying to do the best we can without trampling on anyone's ego. You take away what works for you and you leave the rest. At the end of the day it's worth every penny you paid for it. You have to be the final judge of your work.

The idea of having an separate advanced section for critiques isn't a bad one, but I don't know how you could jury that, practically speaking.

[stamper]

I can't speak for Slobodan, but I don't take prisoners.   

You prefer executions?

[Justan]

> The idea of having an separate advanced section for critiques isn't a bad one, but I don't know how you could jury that, practically speaking.

Most likely the same people will comment in either forum so nothing of note will be added by an additional sub-forum except perhaps some may feel less inhibited about their comments due to the “advanced” label on the forum and in the same way, some may feel reluctant to post there for much the same reason.

[RSL]

Right on, Justan. But the first question that has to be asked is: who decides what's "advanced?" I've been shooting pictures for about 68 years. Sometimes, when I look at something on my screen that worked out really well I feel advanced. Then there are the other times when I feel retarded.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... wonder if this assumption (rightly or wrongly), might be putting off those who are just starting out, or who may not feel confident enough to post images here...

If anything, and based on some discussions we already had on this forum, a lot of (frequent) posters were of the opinion that, at times, we have too many posters which are not putt off at all by anything, and are actually overconfident.