HELP! Medium format macro problem....

[haring]

Well! I am kind of new to medium format photography.
I try to create a few cool macro product photos with my mamiya 645 but the photos are not really great. Some of them are blurry, colorless, etc....

I have a mamiya 645 system. I use a mamiya 120mm 4.0 macro lens with a extension tube NA402 (24mm).

When I use my canon 35mm camera with my 100mm macro lens, the photos are excellent! What do I miss??? What Do I do wrong???

HELP!

[JonMo]

Hi there,
Remember that as the sensor gets larger;
the available DOF gets thinner, based on simular focal length and apature.

If you are hand held;
you are more limited in shutter speed to apature with available light.
Trying to hold focus becomes very difficult.

A macro rail to allow focus stacking to increase DOF and well placed flash units will help both issues.

Hope this helps.

[henrikfoto]

Can you tell how you are doing it?
do you use a good strong tripod? Midium format macro is close to impossible without tripod.
Are you looking up mirror and using a timerelease of a few secunds.

Sounds like you have problems with vibrations?

[Doug Peterson]

You remember we're right down the street right? Since you bought a body from us and no digital back I'm assuming you're shooting film.

Likely
- you've stopped the lens down past the diffraction point in a misguided attempt to get more DOF OR you're just out of focus; the focus confirmation system in your body can be very helpful for product photography
- you haven't taken into account "bellows loss" of light and are underexposing the image
- you're attempting to do macro product photography with available light rather than strobe and haven't properly taken into account the mirror and shutter slap

http://www.captureintegration.com/2009/08/25/extreme-macro/

But of course it would be easier to diagnose if you post actual pictures and tell us more about your setup/technique.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
__________________

Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
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[donaldt]

Mirror Lockup is critical for MF cos the mirror is so large and the vibration it creates is much stronger

that said Mamiya lenses were never so impressive
you could try using a Hasselblad instead, or other macro lenses that would go onto your camera

[HarperPhotos]

Hi donaldt,

Thats a very disturbing comment you made about Mamiya lenses. One what bases did you get that opinion? I've been using Mamiya lenses for 26 years and I find them to be superior in every way.

Cheers

Simon

[donaldt]

Hi Simon
sorry but I meant no harm

I have had a Mamiya system before but I never found their lenses to be impressive(more so on their AF lenses)
I have adapted lenses for still and motion pictures on the camera and get better results, that is what I based my comment on(which I no longer can do because I changed to Hasselblad H system, but I also dont find their lenses impressive anyway)
by result I mean not just sharpness, but how the picture is rendered both in and out of focus
but it could just be my personal preference

not saying Mamiya lens cannot make good pictures, in fact a lot of pros use them and create amazing pictures


though as I said if you get blur picture it is most probably the mirror vibration, Mamiya lenses are tack sharp just that I dont like them so much

Hi donaldt,

Thats a very disturbing comment you made about Mamiya lenses. One what bases did you get that opinion? I've been using Mamiya lenses for 26 years and I find them to be superior in every way.

Cheers

Simon

[topgreat]

Haring, can you show your setup or describe how you do it?  As many people said, vibration or diffraction can be the problem. Without knowing what you do, it is difficult to answer your question.

[mikeber]

Hi Simon
sorry but I meant no harm

I have had a Mamiya system before but I never found their lenses to be impressive(more so on their AF lenses)
I have adapted lenses for still and motion pictures on the camera and get better results, that is what I based my comment on(which I no longer can do because I changed to Hasselblad H system, but I also dont find their lenses impressive anyway)
by result I mean not just sharpness, but how the picture is rendered both in and out of focus
but it could just be my personal preference

not saying Mamiya lens cannot make good pictures, in fact a lot of pros use them and create amazing pictures


though as I said if you get blur picture it is most probably the mirror vibration, Mamiya lenses are tack sharp just that I dont like them so much

Donaldt,


Every time someone makes such remarks, I question their technique/ judgement first. As you say, many people took amazing photographs with Mamiya
tools. This company and products have been among the most successful in the world, outselling almost every competitor.  You can't do that with questionable products.
Recently, I read a comment made by a user of Hasselblad HD4. He was happy to get rid of that "piece of junk" and move on to Phase One. Now his problems are over. I question his judgement as well.

[EricWHiss]

You did not tell us much about your set up other than the camera and lens. What shutter speed? Are you using a flash?   Typically one needs a very stable set-up for both subject and camera or a very quick flash.  I like to use small flash guns for macro work since the flash durations are quite fast, much faster than studio strobes and the flash head can be positioned very close to the subject.  I find this helps a lot in getting crisp images.   If you aren't using a flash then you'll probably need to make sure you set up is really vibration free and to use the mirror lock-up and wait several seconds for everything to settle down before taking the exposure.

[haring]

Hi there,
Remember that as the sensor gets larger;
the available DOF gets thinner, based on simular focal length and apature.

If you are hand held;
you are more limited in shutter speed to apature with available light.
Trying to hold focus becomes very difficult.

A macro rail to allow focus stacking to increase DOF and well placed flash units will help both issues.

Hope this helps.

I think what I am missing is the macro trail. I don't usually use it for 35mm.

[haring]

You remember we're right down the street right? Since you bought a body from us and no digital back I'm assuming you're shooting film.

Likely
- you've stopped the lens down past the diffraction point in a misguided attempt to get more DOF OR you're just out of focus; the focus confirmation system in your body can be very helpful for product photography
- you haven't taken into account "bellows loss" of light and are underexposing the image
- you're attempting to do macro product photography with available light rather than strobe and haven't properly taken into account the mirror and shutter slap

http://www.captureintegration.com/2009/08/25/extreme-macro/

But of course it would be easier to diagnose if you post actual pictures and tell us more about your setup/technique.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
__________________

Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One Partner of the Year
Leaf, Leica, Cambo, Arca Swiss, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Broncolor, Eizo & More

National: 877.217.9870  |  Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter | RSS Feed
Buy Capture One 6 at 10% off

Doug,

Thanks for the help!
I use powerful strobes and a heavy tripod. I also use the mirror lock-up feature. I think I have a problem with the diffraction point.
When do I run into the diffraction point problem you have described? Is there a aperture limit (f/18,25, etc)  below which I should never go?
Thanks!

[haring]

Haring, can you show your setup or describe how you do it?  As many people said, vibration or diffraction can be the problem. Without knowing what you do, it is difficult to answer your question.

Thanks!

I will try it again today. My friend will lend me a digital back. I will record everything and come back with aperture, shutter speed, etc...

[elf]

When do I run into the diffraction point problem you have described? Is there a aperture limit (f/18,25, etc)  below which I should never go?
Thanks!

Diffraction is relative to magnification. At greater than 1X, the effective aperture is fStop * (magnification +1).

There are several sites that can give you the diffraction limit including this one: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/understanding-series/u-diffraction.shtml