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Author Topic: HP 24" Drive Belt Replacement Video  (Read 37985 times)

kaelaria

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Re: HP 24" Drive Belt Replacement Video
« Reply #40 on: March 17, 2011, 01:41:14 pm »

The difference between the printer and a car is a car doesn't have 3/4" pullies. But I agree there should be a better design. I detailed everything about the kit and tools in the article and video.
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hencha

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Re: HP 24" Drive Belt Replacement Video
« Reply #41 on: March 17, 2011, 03:50:18 pm »

hi... Yes, you are correct. I wasn't making a direct comparison of belts from a mechanical point of view. I was leaning more toward a comparison of materials used to manufacture these belts, figuring that since engine belts survive years through heat, cold and speed, HP should be able to find longer lasting materials from which to make these belts... At the very least, HP should NOT charge exorbitant $ to change a belt.

Good idea, your video !    Hencha
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hencha

kaelaria

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Re: HP 24" Drive Belt Replacement Video
« Reply #42 on: March 17, 2011, 04:01:02 pm »

My point is, it's the extremely tight bends the belt has to make that is wearing it out.  A car belt rides on a smooth surface and has nice easy radiuses (is that a word?) - they wear out completely differently.  Put a car belt on small diameters and use gear teeth - they would be toast.  lol
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namartinnz

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Re: HP 24" Drive Belt Replacement Video
« Reply #43 on: March 17, 2011, 05:21:01 pm »

Just ordered my belt from lps to send to New Zealand, international delivery costing just as much as the belt - ouch! Still, it'll be way cheaper than trying to source from NZ. I quickly watched the video yesterday - very informative and well done. Just a matter of getting the right tools, preparing well and following the steps along with the video and manual.

Neal

walter.sk

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Question on the oil
« Reply #44 on: March 19, 2011, 12:38:22 pm »

I've been having trouble locating non-evaporating synthetic oil that would be comparable to what HP uses.  Would something like synthetic valve oil for trumpets, or slide oil for trombones, be about the right weight?  Or do you have a suggestion of where to get the oil?  I've googled it and the closest I've found is the musical instrument oil.

Also, do you know if the belt you bought was officially an HP belt or a 3rd party copy?
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: HP 24" Drive Belt Replacement Video
« Reply #45 on: March 19, 2011, 01:00:26 pm »

The Nye Hobbyist Lubricant Kit contains a thin oil that meets 99% of the HP recommended oil for the head carriage rod, a Nye oil in origin as well. Nye synthetic oil PP269, compare the spec
sheet with the NYE 179 that is used by HP. 2 fl ozs and the price competitive.

met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst


New: Spectral plots of +250 inkjet papers:

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
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walter.sk

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Re: HP 24" Drive Belt Replacement Video
« Reply #46 on: March 19, 2011, 01:15:09 pm »

The Nye Hobbyist Lubricant Kit contains a thin oil that meets 99% of the HP recommended oil for the head carriage rod, a Nye oil in origin as well. Nye synthetic oil PP269, compare the spec
sheet with the NYE 179 that is used by HP. 2 fl ozs and the price competitive.

met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst
Thank you, Ernst.
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kaelaria

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Re: HP 24" Drive Belt Replacement Video
« Reply #47 on: March 19, 2011, 02:52:34 pm »

Yes I have used many different RC car oils that are just like this stuff - it's been years but I know this isn't anything special.  No I didn't source it specifically since I already have it.  The LPS belt is 3rd party and I am impressed with it at least by look and feel compared tot he used OEM.
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Colorwave

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Re: HP 24" Drive Belt Replacement Video
« Reply #48 on: March 19, 2011, 04:15:40 pm »

As someone who had a belt changed on a 44" Z3100 (the last gasp for my now expired service contract), I have no problems with the belt itself.  It would be nice if it lasted longer, but given the stresses it is put through, I am OK with the service life.  What I find ridiculous, though, is how the change and access were engineered.  I doubt that they could have made it less accessible, given where it is positioned in the printer, if they tried.  Since almost the whole thing is visible before doing any disassembly, the fact that you are unable to release tension and pop it on from the front without a total breakdown of the printer is just a simple engineering failure.  Obviously, you would need to remove a few parts, but it shouldn't need to be broken down to a bare chassis first.  I would say that this must not have been on the engineer's radar screen, but know that the belt replacement issue has been associated with HP wide format printers for at least a decade.  They obviously saw it coming and, for whatever reason, paid no heed to efficiency in designing the belt replacement requirements.
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kaelaria

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Re: HP 24" Drive Belt Replacement Video
« Reply #49 on: March 19, 2011, 04:29:04 pm »

Yeah it sure would be nice. The entire reason for the teardown is because of how the belt interfaces with the carraige bottom.
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walter.sk

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Re: HP 24" Drive Belt Replacement Video
« Reply #50 on: March 23, 2011, 12:43:22 pm »

'Nother question.  I finally have all the tools and assorted stuff so that I can begin the job on my Z3100 belt.  I looked through my paper supply, and the only non-matte paper I have available is Epson Premium Luster, which I use for most of my prints.  Would this be OK to use for the tests and alignments I need to do after reassembling the printer?  Or does it have to be something by HP, and glossy?
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kaelaria

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Re: HP 24" Drive Belt Replacement Video
« Reply #51 on: March 23, 2011, 01:09:03 pm »

The test is just a simple diagnostics thing. It doesn't have to be hp paper you just have to load it as such.
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walter.sk

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A problem?
« Reply #52 on: March 24, 2011, 10:29:29 pm »

I did most of the disassembly slowly and with loads of ziplock bags nicely labeled, and I did not anticipate much of a problem.  But just before sliding the carriage assembly out I had to remove the two T8 screws to release the Media Attachment Bracket.  Those screws were so solidly in that I couldn't turn them, and actually damaged the Torx driver tip, and possibly the heads of the screws as well.

Not wanting to make them worse, I tried an alternative.  I saw that the Media Attachment Bracket was attached to what looked like a spindle of sorts, and I figured that if I could get the spindle out with the side panel I'd probably be OK.  It worked the way I thought, and I can now get the carriage assembly out.

What I need to know is:  what is the "spindle" (full length of the printer) and did I create a further problem by having it slide out?  Do I need to go through extra steps to reinstall it, or do I just try to fit it back?  It seems to have grooves for special purposes running lengthwise and I'm not sure what it does.  What is the spindle called?  That way I can look up the steps to reinstall it.

Damn!
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kaelaria

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Re: HP 24" Drive Belt Replacement Video
« Reply #53 on: March 24, 2011, 11:20:31 pm »

To anyone else and for future reference - hold your horses when you hit a problem step instead of going another direction.

That shaft raises the pinchwheel assembly and I don't think it can be reinserted with the assembly installed.  Removal of the assembly an installation is in itself a major PITA that I watched HP tech do three times on my printer trying to develop parts and procedures.  It also requires a special HP tool to install the springs.

To remove stubborn screws you #1 use the exact size driver, with a non-ballhead tip.  Hitting the driver in the screw with a hammer firmly and using a bit of heat on the screw heads is also helpful.  The screws often have loctite applied and heat is needed to break the bond.  Mine were certainly tight but my driver fit firmly and they snapped open without jumping the bit.
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namartinnz

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Re: HP 24" Drive Belt Replacement Video
« Reply #54 on: March 25, 2011, 12:12:31 am »

Another short gap solution to help prevent all the spots of rubber specs falling on your prints until you can get the belt replaced. On the rear rollers assembly, where the paper sits under, I attached some sticky backed paper strips about 1 inch thick. This stops the spots falling thru the plastic gaps onto the paper, helping reduce the voids when printed. It's amazing how many particles I have sitting on it even after a week. I'm still waiting for my belt to arrive from the US. Doesn't seem to affect performance.

Neal

walter.sk

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Re: HP 24" Drive Belt Replacement Video
« Reply #55 on: March 25, 2011, 10:19:37 am »


That shaft raises the pinchwheel assembly and I don't think it can be reinserted with the assembly installed.  Removal of the assembly an installation is in itself a major PITA that I watched HP tech do three times on my printer trying to develop parts and procedures.  It also requires a special HP tool to install the springs.

To remove stubborn screws you #1 use the exact size driver, with a non-ballhead tip.  Hitting the driver in the screw with a hammer firmly and using a bit of heat on the screw heads is also helpful.  The screws often have loctite applied and heat is needed to break the bond.  Mine were certainly tight but my driver fit firmly and they snapped open without jumping the bit.

Right now I will change the belt and clean all of the parts that need it, while I think about what I should do.  Also, if many of the screws had loctite applied, should I use loctite on reinstalling?  Also, I did use a T8 driver on those screws.  A t10 would not fit. The driver was a garden variety Craftsman T8; how can I tell if it has a non-ballhead tip?

I am also hoping that since that shaft I removed is asymmetrical in profile, and that it is still solidly connected to the media lever gizmo, that if I align it carefully with the piece that it passes through, that it will be able to function as before.  Or am I asking for even more trouble?

I hate to keep bothering you for more information after the work you put in, so generously, on the video.
I just feel completely stymied at this point.
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kaelaria

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Re: HP 24" Drive Belt Replacement Video
« Reply #56 on: March 25, 2011, 11:15:43 am »

I only saw loctite on a couple screws and it was a trace amount.  I didn't mean that many of the Z3100 screws had it, I mean many times when they are stuck like that it's from loctite.  No I would not apply any.

I can't say for certain what you need to do, I have never removed the shaft - I'm not even sure how it's supposed to come out or what it looks like, there's nothing in the service manual that shows it.

A regular tip is flat and will stick in the screw straight.  A ballhead is angled and you can wiggle it a bit.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2011, 09:07:16 pm by kaelaria »
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walter.sk

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Re: HP 24" Drive Belt Replacement Video
« Reply #57 on: March 26, 2011, 11:05:40 am »

Well, I got the belt changed.  The entire insides of the printer looked as if it were covered by dead ants!

Much to my surprise, when I turned the media lever bracket to the position it was when I removed the side panel and the mysterious shaft that came out, I was able to thread the shaft through all of its brackets with no problem.  It seems also that the only function it serves is to rotate with the media-release lever.  Its irregular profile in turn activates those brackets, which lift the roller assemblies to free the paper, and then to lower them again.  My guess (and hope) is that I have not disturbed the alignment or function of the pizza wheels and pinch rollers.  I'll find out soon enough, though.

One other question:  It never occurred for me to check on how close to metal-to-metal contact the belt tensioner was before I loosened and removed its screw, so I don't know how tight to make it.  Right now it's about 3/16 from the side panel, and the belt seems more than tight enough.  I'll probably tighten it down a bit more to account for stretching of the belt in case it has a "break-in" period, but it seems to do the job of moving the carriage easily (by hand, at this point, of course.)

A further question:  On tightening the T-10 screw recessed behind the circuit board in order to limit travel of the carriage assembly, I did not find any increase of resistance.  I became worried that It might just keep turning until it popped out the other end (I've done lots of things like that in my clumsy history), so I just turned it enough to stop the carriage, and then added a couple of turns.  Should it be turned until it stops?

Thanks again, and this morning I'm more hopeful that the printer will work.
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kaelaria

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Re: HP 24" Drive Belt Replacement Video
« Reply #58 on: March 26, 2011, 11:08:46 am »

Congrats on the shaft going back in - hopefully like you said it's just a cam and nothing else is needed.

You tighten the bracket ALL the way.  The springs are the actual tensioner.

The screw to release the carriage assembly is ONLY for release.  You do not do anything with it to park it.  If I didn't mention it and/or it's not in the manual instructions, don't do it.  Trying to tighten it does nothing, it just spins.
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walter.sk

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Re: HP 24" Drive Belt Replacement Video
« Reply #59 on: March 26, 2011, 07:34:35 pm »

Well, I got the printer reassembled.  When I turned it on I got Error 21:13, which translates to Service Station, HP Personnel Assistance Required.  Is this because I screwed something else up, or is it just because I need to do all of the tests and calibrations? As far as I know, the only thing I did to the service station was wipe off the inky crud from the tops of the sponges and the plastic frames as well as wiping a very inky top to a narrrow sponge just to the left of the service station.

I am going to enter the service menu and try all the tests for the parts I removed and replaced.  If you see heavy smoke from the East Coast I'm in NYC.  Check for Strontium 90, etc.
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