A new review of the Leica S2

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

Not always. The question is also how much bigger and how match better. Lousy optics will be even mow lousy with a bigger sensor, because a larger part of the image circle would be used.

MF sensors come in different sizes. Clearly, the P65+ sensor is larger than the S2-sensor but a P40+ may be about the same size. Also, I got the impression that some of the Phase One lenses are very good and Phase One went to Schneider for additional lenses.

Lloyd Chambers has tested both Leica S2 and Hasselblad H4D and his S2 images were clearly much better, depending on lenses. Lloyds observations were also consistent with published MTF charts from Leica and Hasselblad. Regarding the MTF curves, the ones published by Leica may be calculated and the Hasselblad figures measured.

Best regards
Erik

Bigger sensor always wins over better glass. That's what MF is all about and why the Blads, Phamiyas etc can compete with the S2 and win.

Edmund

[paratom]

Some comments:
1) it is very often expensive to get the last little bit of quality. No matter if you talk about cars, audio equipment, cameras/ lenses - I believe there are some great lenses from other brands as well, but I am pretty sure that nearly all the Leica glass is exceptional. Of course its not twice as good, but it is very good
( by the way I believe the same is true for the x1 - which is slow but still IMO the smallest/lightest camera which delievers such good IQ and a special user interface (matter of taste))
2) price is one thing - value the other. Leica lenses are very stable in value
3) IMO the important thing about the S2 is that you can use it for a wider range of taking images. Because of the different form factor, weather proof design and it is also quite responsive, plus the lenses are relativly fast for MF and you get a little more DOF so you might have to stop down 1/2 less than with the large sensors - so you gain about  1 f-stop.

Is it expensive-yes. Now this will sound strange but I say: Many people who can spend 20k for a MF-Kit could also find a way to spend 25k for a S2 kit - it would be more important that the system does what the user wants/needs. And here the S2 offers some advantages and some disadvantages compared to MF.

[eronald]

I agree with your views of the S2. Nice camera, nice lenses, nice landscape pictures (see Digilloyd), great satisfaction in use. I'd love using it, but find I'm stuck at ISO 1600 F4 almost 100% of the time on the D3x now, I do available light street and hobby only these days, with a very occasional fashion show, and am actually thinking of *downgrading* to the D3s for speed, speed, speed.

Edmund

Hi,

My guess is that the S2 (the camera not the car, in case you are asking) is a bit different. My guess is that the ROI on the S2 is very low. If you are making pictures for money I don't think that you got more customers because you shoot with a Leica S2, nor can you charge higher fees, at least when compared with other MF equipment.

My guess is that the benefits with Leica S2 is more on the satisfaction side. Seeing ultimate optical quality, precision and so on.

Best regards
Erik

[Nick Rains]

Lloyd Chambers has tested both Leica S2 and Hasselblad H4D and his S2 images were clearly much better, depending on lenses. Lloyds observations were also consistent with published MTF charts from Leica and Hasselblad. Regarding the MTF curves, the ones published by Leica may be calculated and the Hasselblad figures measured.

Best regards
Erik

Don't know about the Hassy lens but the Leica lenses are measured. They don't leave the factory unless they measure above a certain threshold.

[peterv]

Regarding the MTF curves, the ones published by Leica may be calculated and the Hasselblad figures measured.

I was under the impression it's the other way around..?

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

The Zeiss lenses Hasselblad had were measured and I still think that is the case with the HC lenses. Regarding the Leica lenses a group of reviewers including Michael Reichmann and Sean Reid have been invited to Solms and given presentations by S2 developers. They were affirmative that the MTF data they presented were calculated, due to time schedule. I don't know if data presented on the Leica site is measured samples or calculated.

Best regards
Erik

I was under the impression it's the other way around..?

[georgl]

The MTF from Leica is always calculated but incorporates realistic tolerances - not the theoretical performance of the design itself. So they give an impression of an average "real" lens, Carl Zeiss is the only company I know of which actually publishes measured (selected?) MTF.

[MattBeardsley]

We (Dale Photo & Digital) offer rental of the S2, all four S lenses, every S accessory, and alternative lens adapters for Hasselblad V, Pentax 67 and Mamiya 645MF. We even rent a bellows adapter with a fully movable front standard for table-top work. And rental is applied 100% to purchase.

Leica S2 Professional Rental | Dale Photo & digital

David

David,

Good to hear from you!  And great to know about an S2 rental outfit.  Can you elaborate on the bellows system you mention?  That sounds pretty interesting for studio work..

~Matt

[peterv]

Hi,

The Zeiss lenses Hasselblad had were measured and I still think that is the case with the HC lenses. Regarding the Leica lenses a group of reviewers including Michael Reichmann and Sean Reid have been invited to Solms and given presentations by S2 developers. They were affirmative that the MTF data they presented were calculated, due to time schedule. I don't know if data presented on the Leica site is measured samples or calculated.

Best regards
Erik

Thanks Erik,

the info is here in the interview MR did with Peter Karbe at 8 min 44 sec: