A new review of the Leica S2

[MattBeardsley]

Hello LL!

I've spent a little time with the Leica S2 now and have had a great time.  It's an easy camera to shoot, and delivers great image quality (reminds me more of a Leaf back look than a Hasselblad).  Do you guys think the big Leica is gaining popularity?

Take a look at the first part of the review.  Let me know if you catch any errors!

http://photoartsmonthly.com/blog/2011/02/28/introduction-the-leica-s2/

Thanks!
Matt

[paratom]

Hi Matt,
thats a nice review and I am looking forward to PartII.

To answer your question: Personally I believe the big Leica (S2) is gaining popularity. What We see in forums, what I hear from the local Leica dealer and also from Leica directly sales numbers of S2 do look pretty good.
And this even though the central shutter lenses are not yet available (which should make some proferssionals wait/reisist)

I dont know how unprecise the S2-A4 was in the beginning, and how much has been improved with firmware (boda and lenses), and how much sample variation we see. However my S2 focuses very precise with my 70mm lens (still waiting forthe 120)-the AF is indeed better than I had hoped for.  And I know some other people who also do not have AF problems. So the improved AF might be another reason that now more people stepping into the S2 system.

What I ask myself is: the sensor not being all that much bigger than 24x36, but still a bit smaller than 645 - do the lenses really have to be that big?
On the other side I rather have big lenses than making optical compromises. I love to shoot every f-stop including wide open and not have to worry about IQ.

[paratom]

I had the same opinion 6 months ago.
Now I think different.
1) I believe Leica sells more units than planned and it is not a prestige project but a project they will make money
2) I also believethe S2 is more of an dentist camera than the Phase/Lef/Hassys (just my opinion)
3) I would have liked an R-solution. But going the S-solution Leica avoided to have to compete with the Nikon/Canon/Sony - not only function but also price wise. I also question how good manual focus with a DSLR ff viewfinder works for high resolution. Even with the S2 I find AF to be more accurate than my eyes. So in a longer term Leica would have to supply AF lenses anyways- and here they would have to go a long long way to compete vs Nikon and Canon AF lens product range. Going a new format in between is like a niche where they can justify a high price much better than for a ff DSLR.

With the S2 they have several competitive factors. Lens optical quality (even wide open very good). Form factor. Speed. AF (which is very precise for a MF camera). Weather seeling. (Of course there are things the S2 cant do: Tech camera maybe the most important)

Now I think it was a smart move from Leica. However it would work only if the system works as promised. Here I had some doubts first but as of today my trust in the reliability and function of the system has increased a lot.

[feppe]

The S2 is a superb camera, I'd like to see that pureness design in any dslr actually, it delivers superb image quality and certainly will tempted some photographers...BUT

Having said that, the S2 IMO is a vast failure for Leica.

[...]

 I might be wrong anyway, I hope I'm wrong.

You don't have to hope, here's the evidence: from Leica's latest financial report:

Leica Camera Group closed the third quarter of the current 2010/2011 fiscal year [...] a 73.2 % increase as compared to the same period in the previous fiscal year. The Company thus registered the best quarterly and nine-months results since its IPO in 1996.

This confirms the course for innovation and growth followed by Leica Camera AG since its successful turnaround – products younger than two years account for 67 % of sales in the current fiscal year.

The increase in sales on the prior year is due to the continuing strong demand registered for  all of the Company’s product categories – sales in the Photo product group more than doubled with the Leica M system, the professional S system and the digital Leica compact cameras.

(emphasis mine)

While they don't (have to) report product line sales figures or shares, S2 and I believe lenses were delayed due to unexpectedly high demand. Of course it could be a marketing ploy, but the figures above speak volumes.

There were plenty of armchair CEOs and CTOs on the internets saying S2 will fail miserably and even kill Leica. I always thought it would have a niche but never imagined it being this successful. It's a stunningly built, beautiful product (I've actually played around with one) and the feature set is compelling, but the pricing is outrageous for what it is - but clearly there are plenty of people with the disposable income or a business justification for it who think otherwise.

[TMARK]

I shot the S2 and really enjoyed it.  The problem, for me, is that if I had to rely on the S2 on a job, my ulcer would come back.  I really don't think Leica is a professional camera company.  Don't get me wrong, I've enjoyed my M8 and my M9, my M4-P and M6, and I've shot all of them on jobs, but in no way is Leica's support or reliability at the level required of a professional product. Maybe support is different with the $4kUSD warranty, maybe the electronics in the S2 are more reliable than those in the M8 and M9.  I'm not sure, but I know I won't pay Red Epic money to find out, especially with the proven, confidence inspiring H4d-40 and D3x out there.

That being said, a nice camera.

[MattBeardsley]

Guys,

Thanks for the comments... One thing seems sure, everyone who has shot the S2 has enjoyed shooting the S2!  It's unusually quick for a camera with a 45mm-wide sensor and definitely comfortable.  I'm anxious to see more rental options as the lenses become more widely available... do you guys know of people who rent these now?

~Matt

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... It's a stunningly built, beautiful product ...

When I had it in my hands for the first time, I felt like crying. No, seriously! In all my years, with all kind of cameras, from p&s to Hasselblads, I've never had before this feeling that it fits my hands like a glove, that it feels like a camera built by and for photographers, pinnacle of simplicity of design and interface. The size and weight... and simply the feel in my hands... just felt right. If I had that kind of money, I would buy it just for the feel of it, all other brainy considerations be damned!

[telyt]

http://photoartsmonthly.com/blog/2011/02/28/introduction-the-leica-s2/

Thanks for posting the review, Matt.  I have to admit I'm biased, I've been a fan of the S2 since the day it was announced.  Before the R system was discontinued I was hoping the R10 would be based on the thinking that went into the S2, scaled down to fit R lenses.  Once the proposed 350mm APO-S becomes available I'll have a hard time resisting.

[KevinA]

I wonder if they ever considered calling it the R10, at least it would of stopped people wishing for one. If they have no intension of producing a 35 mm DSLR it would of made a bit of sense.
Other than system cost it would fit my needs better than anything else on the market.

Kevin.

[telyt]

I wonder if they ever considered calling it the R10...

Unlikely.  When it was announced they were still planning to make the R10, and it can't use R lenses.

[MattBeardsley]

Kevin,

I totally agree, the S2 is hard to beat for high-resolution hand held and location shooting... I was impressed with the 35mm f2.5 lens as an editorial/environmental portrait lens.  Think shooters are holding out for specific glass?

[telyt]

Other than system cost it would fit my needs better than anything else on the market.

  Think shooters are holding out for specific glass?

Speaking only for myself, yup.  Aside from no long native lenses yet, I agree with KevinA.

[geesbert]

Dentists... Yesterday my dentist, knowing that i am a pro photographer, asked me whether the Leica M9 was a good camera and that he thought he might buy one, having a pretty large collection of analog Ms and not using them anymore, as he prefered his digital Pentax (Pentax is the real dentist camera, I doubt there is one dentist without a Pentax, they always knew how to cater for dentists' needs).

I had to smile (which is tough with a drill in my mouth)

[KevinA]

Kevin,

I totally agree, the S2 is hard to beat for high-resolution hand held and location shooting... I was impressed with the 35mm f2.5 lens as an editorial/environmental portrait lens.  Think shooters are holding out for specific glass?

Not in my case, I am either waiting for an unprecedented upturn in business, lottery win or the death of an unknown filthy rich relative that loved me.

Kevin.

[DaveCurtis]

If you didn't buy the S2 for the camera you would buy it for the glass. These lenses are the best leica have ever made.

[LKaven]

I credit them with recognizing the fact that these same lenses will have to work not just on this year's 40MP S2, but as well on future models with twice the pixel density or more. 

[eronald]

Bigger sensor always wins over better glass. That's what MF is all about and why the Blads, Phamiyas etc can compete with the S2 and win.

Edmund

[LKaven]

Hasselblad 80/2.8 = $2100
Mamiya 80/2.8 = $1290
Leica 70/2.5 = $4495 (or $5995 with leaf shutter)

And these (B&H prices) are just the "cheap" normal lenses.  Whatever "Leica magic" I felt 30 years ago is long gone.  Today, Leica looks like two big middle fingers to me.  And that's their "brand image."

If their bottom line is healthy, I have to imagine it's because they are selling rebadged $500 Panasonics for $2000, $15,000 cameras for $28,000, and $2500 lenses for $5000.  Of course you can buy the $15,000 camera for $23,000, but you must pay replacement costs up front to have their middle finger "warranty."  The word "warranty" in Leica-speak means /you pay for a second camera up front, and then they'll decide whether you deserve it or not if something breaks/."  Platinum my ass.

[Rob C]

Hasselblad 80/2.8 = $2100
Mamiya 80/2.8 = $1290
Leica 70/2.5 = $4495 (or $5995 with leaf shutter)

And these (B&H prices) are just the "cheap" normal lenses.  Whatever "Leica magic" I felt 30 years ago is long gone.  Today, Leica looks like two big middle fingers to me.  And that's their "brand image."

If their bottom line is healthy, I have to imagine it's because they are selling rebadged $500 Panasonics for $2000, $15,000 cameras for $28,000, and $2500 lenses for $5000.  Of course you can buy the $15,000 camera for $23,000, but you must pay replacement costs up front to have their middle finger "warranty."  The word "warranty" in Leica-speak means /you pay for a second camera up front, and then they'll decide whether you deserve it or not if something breaks/."  Platinum my ass.

The world has moved on... fings ain't what they used to be. Unfortunately.

Rob C

[LKaven]

The world has moved on... fings ain't what they used to be. Unfortunately.

:-)  I just wish they'd reinvent the compact 35mm-sized camera and create something really useful for pros without the brand mongering or gouging.  And I'm sure the S2 would be a lovely $15k camera.  But I don't hold out any hope for them if their bottom line is based on cashing in their former brand image at a premium.  They remind me of 80s corporate raiders, desperately milking the red dot.

Meanwhile, there are several Japanese manufacturers who are capable of stepping up.  Fuji and Kyocera are capable of not just innovation, but real precision manufacturing.  We need a new compact pro camera format.  I can't walk the streets just anywhere with a heavy D3x/s.  I want a hand-held FF camera made for rugged daily use, and I don't want a Leica M with it's damn single focus point.  

Whew, what a day...I must be in a bad mood; but the target is deserving.