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Author Topic: New to calibration  (Read 2734 times)

jayne

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New to calibration
« on: February 27, 2011, 11:45:27 pm »

I'm very new to printing photos, and am needing a point in the right direction.

How do I calibrate my monitor/computer to match what the printer prints?

I know, I know, a very big, broad question!

I have a Win 7 laptop (that is getting replaced very shortly, hopefully within the next month, but definitely by the end of summer, as it has done it's duty for years, and is time to move on to something that can run more than 4gb RAM), and the printer is the Epson Stylus Pro 11880. I'm intending to get a MacBook Pro when I update my computer. I using Photoshop CS5 to edit photos (still learning that, as well).

Ok, so here's where you can be of assistance. I see the ICC profiles from Epson's website, then there are ICC profiles from Breathing Colors (for their canvas?), and then there are settings within Photoshop itself.

Do I need all of these profiles? Just one or the other?

Is this where "soft proofing" comes in? (Speaking of, can someone point me to resources for that, as well?)

Yes, I've read quite a few of the posts here, but I'm somehow not getting it; I cannot seem to figure out these basic questions. It does not seem like it is rocket science, but because it is so new to me, I'm not able to figure out which I need first, and what to do with it once I have it.

Thank you!
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: New to calibration
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2011, 12:09:24 am »

Hi!

First you need match screen white to your viewing environment. A white patch on the screen should have the same brightness as a piece of white paper in your viewing environment. AVOID MONITOR BEEING TO BRIGHT! That will result in the "My pictures are to dark!" syndrome.

Second, you may need to calibrate your monitor.

The printer profiles question is somewhat complicated. You can let printer handle colors, in which case printer profiles are of little use. The other way is to let application manage color. In the later case you supply the printer profile and color management in printer needs to be disabled.

It sounds like a mess and it is indeed!

Color profiles are valid for a combination of paper/ink set/printer settings.

Here are my settings:

Photoshop + printer

Last one is LR3

Best regards
Erik




I'm very new to printing photos, and am needing a point in the right direction.

How do I calibrate my monitor/computer to match what the printer prints?

I know, I know, a very big, broad question!

I have a Win 7 laptop (that is getting replaced very shortly, hopefully within the next month, but definitely by the end of summer, as it has done it's duty for years, and is time to move on to something that can run more than 4gb RAM), and the printer is the Epson Stylus Pro 11880. I'm intending to get a MacBook Pro when I update my computer. I using Photoshop CS5 to edit photos (still learning that, as well).

Ok, so here's where you can be of assistance. I see the ICC profiles from Epson's website, then there are ICC profiles from Breathing Colors (for their canvas?), and then there are settings within Photoshop itself.

Do I need all of these profiles? Just one or the other?

Is this where "soft proofing" comes in? (Speaking of, can someone point me to resources for that, as well?)

Yes, I've read quite a few of the posts here, but I'm somehow not getting it; I cannot seem to figure out these basic questions. It does not seem like it is rocket science, but because it is so new to me, I'm not able to figure out which I need first, and what to do with it once I have it.

Thank you!
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Erik Kaffehr
 

graeme

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Re: New to calibration
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2011, 03:37:29 am »

I'm very new to printing photos, and am needing a point in the right direction.

How do I calibrate my monitor/computer to match what the printer prints?

I know, I know, a very big, broad question!

I have a Win 7 laptop (that is getting replaced very shortly, hopefully within the next month, but definitely by the end of summer, as it has done it's duty for years, and is time to move on to something that can run more than 4gb RAM), and the printer is the Epson Stylus Pro 11880. I'm intending to get a MacBook Pro when I update my computer. I using Photoshop CS5 to edit photos (still learning that, as well).

Ok, so here's where you can be of assistance. I see the ICC profiles from Epson's website, then there are ICC profiles from Breathing Colors (for their canvas?), and then there are settings within Photoshop itself.

Do I need all of these profiles? Just one or the other?

Is this where "soft proofing" comes in? (Speaking of, can someone point me to resources for that, as well?)

Yes, I've read quite a few of the posts here, but I'm somehow not getting it; I cannot seem to figure out these basic questions. It does not seem like it is rocket science, but because it is so new to me, I'm not able to figure out which I need first, and what to do with it once I have it.

Thank you!

This helped me:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/videos/camera-print.shtml

And I'm no rocket scientist.

Graeme
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Rhossydd

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Re: New to calibration
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2011, 05:06:44 am »

Can I recommend getting and reading "Color Management for Photographers" by Andrew Rodney (pub Focal Press).

You'll learn all you need to from one book, and have it for reference. Picking up bits and pieces of the system from web forums often leads to confusion when people fail to explain things properly or use different and sometimes incorrect terminology. It's also an easy read that doesn't go into too much irrelevant technicality. The investment in time reading it will repay itself many times over.

Paul
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digitaldog

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Re: New to calibration
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2011, 07:43:58 am »

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Author "Color Management for Photographers".

John.Murray

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Re: New to calibration
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2011, 12:07:24 am »

Think of an ICC profile as "mapping" your image's colors to a specific device.  In a color managed workflow - every device will have it's own profile; your display, your printer.

For your situation - you need to get your display sorted first.  I went with an Eye-One Photo Spectro, because i wanted to be able to profile both my display and my printer.  NEC and Eizo have integrated display/profiling products now - I'd take a hard look at these.

Follow Andrew's suggestions in regard to room lighting / display brightness; resist the temptation to be "blown away" by your display!  I didn't have a problem here, as I spend 8-10 hours a day in front of a display as part of my IT work - light levels needs to be long term comfortable.

On the output side, I'd take advantage of the pre-built profiles available for various papers / printers - they are very good (certainly better than none).  I personally went with a Z3100 which builds excellent (and for me repeatable) profiles, but I found the "canned" profiles to be very close.

Finally - the Camera to Print series.....  get it
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jayne

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Re: New to calibration
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2011, 09:43:43 pm »

Thank you all so much!  (Posting and disappearing is not something I like to do, but when you get sick and don't get out of bed for almost 3 weeks, and then, while still not better you have to play catch-up, unfortunately, something has to suffer.)

Ok, so here's what has transpired in the past few week since I first posted.

I got my printer. Epson Stylus Pro 11880.
I got my paper. Breathing Color Lyve Canvas. (Getting Epson Premium Luster photo paper in in a bit.)
I got a new computer. Macbook Pro. (Yes, I got a laptop. I don't have space for a desktop, plus, I travel too frequently for it to be feasible to invest in two computers.)
I got a monitor calibrator. i1Display 2.
I borrowed some books from photography friends. (Too many to list right here, but did get the one referenced above, Color Management for Photographers.)

The printer comes with the initial inks, as well as a few feet of Epson Doubleweight Matte paper. I have been just test printing to get a feel for the printer and the computer. I calibrated my monitor, a multitude of ways, but still cannot get the print to come out as seen on my screen. This is my first goal: To make the print match was is on my screen. I'm not concerned yet about the picture being "right", as it will not matter if it is right, if I am not seeing on my screen the end result (the print).

As far as I'm aware, this printer (Epson 11880) does not have a way to calibrate it, that it is somehow set up to not drift from the initial factory/manufacturing calibration, and that the ICCs handle everything else. (Please, if I'm wrong, please point me to more information about how to calibrate this printer.)

I first calibrated it with the i1D2, and the screen looked better. Did a test print of 2 different photos, one mostly white of a friend of mine indoors, one of me, outside with lots of green trees and grass and blue sky. Her pic came out with a red cast to it, mine came out very bright and way oversaturated.

Re-calibrated, looked at pics on computer and compared to first prints, still not the same. Took same pictures, did some color correcting, and printed 2 very small test prints, to see if any change. Still do not match, but the prints are better (though not good). On screen, the sky looked almost purplish (magenta cast??), but the print that sky looked almost a little more cyanish. Thought I remembered somewhere where it was mentioned that even using an external calibrator that one should still calibrate monitor first with built in os software. Tried that, then recalibrated with ColorEyes Pro. New profile came out way different, but not bad (to my very much confused eyes), and was pretty much the best profile yet, but I noticed that it made the previous profile look absolutely horrible! Took same image from computer (had not modified since last printing) and compared again. Still look very different.

This afternoon, I took same pictures and same file, and while sitting in a room that was lit by only sunlight, viewed all images. Looked to match more closely, but still not right.

I called X-Rite, to see if there was something I was not doing, or if there was something else I needed to do. The guy there walked me through re-calibrating, and noticed that my monitor was way too bright, and it was reading 7000 K instead of 6500 K. It was reading about 331, instead of about 120. So I changed the os setting to not adjust for ambient light, and set it to about 112 (the was the closest I could get it to the 120 he recommended). With the screen turned down, it put it back to within a few numbers of 6500 K. What I noticed right away with that was that my screen now had a pink tint to it! When I mentioned that, he responded that that was due to the fact that before, with the brighter screen, it was a cooler-looking screen, but with the brightness turned down, it was a warmer-looking screen, and that it would take a few hours for my eyes to adjust to the warmer colored screen.

The guy from X-Rite mentioned that due to the mediums the image is being viewed on, there would always be *some* minor discrepancies, as one is an emissive display and the other is are reflective print (are those the right terms there? I know how it works, I just can never remember the terms). He advised to view the "softproof" setting for the print medium, to get a much better idea of what it will look like when it prints.

I used the computer all afternoon, and now since coming back from dinner, my screen no longer appears to have a pink tint to it. (I even checked the profiles to make sure the correct one was still selected, lol. It is. :) ) I switched it back, just to see the change, and the previous one has a distinct light-green tint to it.

The images look good on my screen, but unfortunately, I cannot really check the printed images, as they are looking very much off. I will check those tomorrow during the daylight, so see if they are different. (I think I will be investing in some good "daylight" bulbs.)

I had a discussion with my business partner this afternoon on my progress of getting the screen to show the same as what I'm printing. I stated that I cannot get the monitor to show correctly, and that maybe I need to see about manually adjusting the RGB sliders. He says that I am incorrect in that I have to adjust the monitor, and that I need to adjust the program I am using to print, that Photoshop/Lightroom settings are what need to be adjusted, not the monitor. I said that I disagreed, and the monitor gets adjusted to show the exact colors, and the program is only notified of what color space to be using, but how the color space shows is dependent on the monitor settings (profile) and the accuracy of said-profile, *not* any settings in the print program. What does he mean? Am I completely wrong in thinking I need to get my monitor any more right, and I need to now go change settings in (at least 2 different) print programs?

My question is this. Based on all that I have done, where do I go from here? How do I get my screen to show (as close as computerly possible) the colors that I print? What piece an I missing? How close is it possible to get? 75% match? 90%? 98%? 100%?
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jayne

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Re: New to calibration
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2011, 01:56:30 am »

What am I doing wrong here?

I cannot figure out why the colors are not coming out as they appear on my screen. The prints seem to have more "blue" to them. I honestly cannot be sure if this is a "normal" variation from screen to print, or if there is some setting that I've missed.

I am printing on an Epson Stylus Pro 11880, using Epson Doubleweight Matte (came with the printer, so I'm using it solely to make sure I can get this paper down, before moving on to more expensive paper and canvas). I am editing in PS5, printing from LR3.

My post above shows what I've done for calibrating my monitor. (D65, 2.2, ~112 cd/m^2)

In PS5, the Color Settings is set for North American General Purpose 2. As I'm using generic Epson paper, I have LR3 color management profile as "Managed by Printer", and the Color Mode under Print Settings is EPSON Standard (sRGB).  Do either of these need to be set with the same profile as my monitor? Or another color space?

When I printed the test image from Digital Dog, the image matches about 98% (to my eyes), but I print this next image (printed as the original, then 2 where I altered 2/3 of the image), there is too much blue, and I don't know if that is a case of the image being too dark (as has been mentioned is a common occurrence for people new to this), or if there really is too much blue. Both images were checked under the same conditions.

When I'm looking at the print, I'm comparing it to the softproof setting for the Epson Dblweight, with Perceptual rendering, and set to Simulate Paper Color.

The images I uploaded here - http://flic.kr/s/aHsjuiwpud - are snapshots of the printed image next to the image on my screen. Please ignore the quality of the images, they weren't taken for any other reason than to show the COLORS that the print is producing as opposed to the screen, so they may be a little blurry, but the color difference is there.

I cannot seem to find where it shows what black is being used, Photo Black vs Matte Black, or what color space this printer has.

Can anyone help me? I can provide more information, but I'm not sure what else will help, so if you let me know what you need, I can get it to you.

Thank you!
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