Topic: pouring resin onto prints ? (Read 20996 times)

Aristoc · « **on:** February 19, 2011, 07:13:33 pm »

have you or do you know of the method of mounting prints onto wood boards and pouring clear glossy resin over them as a finish ?
Saw it at a coffee shop and really like the look ?
Thank you

Gemmtech · « **Reply #1 on:** February 19, 2011, 07:21:41 pm »

Been doing it for 30 years, some prints, I love it. Much nicer than Acrylic or glass but a lot more laborious! Generally use MDF or hardboard. adhere Print to board with spray on adhesive, let dry and then apply lacquer, than acrylic. It takes skill and time but the result is incredible! If you get a scratch you can buff it out a lot easier than acrylic or glass which requires Cerium Oxide.

mshowe · « **Reply #2 on:** February 19, 2011, 09:05:05 pm »

Regards Gemmtech ! If you care to share? what type of lacquer and acrylic do you use, i have some prints i would like to display with this method. Is matte or resin coated media better for this method? Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Milt:

photodave · « **Reply #3 on:** February 19, 2011, 09:11:57 pm »

Quote from: Gemmtech on February 19, 2011, 07:21:41 pm

Been doing it for 30 years, some prints I love it. Much nicer than
Acrylic or glass but a lot more laborious! Generally us MDF adhere
Print to board, let dry and then apply lacquer, than acrylic. It takes
Skill and time but the result is incredible! If you get a scratch you
Can buff it out a lot easier than acrylic or glass Which requires Cerium Oxide

Gemmtech

I am also interested in this process. Can you explain how you adhere the print to the MDF Board?

David

Gemmtech · « **Reply #4 on:** February 19, 2011, 10:58:17 pm »

Please understand that I do NOT use the term "archival" because I don't really know what that means. Also, I believe my acrylic prints will only last a few hundred years, but I don't really know. I know some here are concerned if their prints will last a 1000 years or longer and I'm not sure this process will accomplish that feat. I have acrylic prints (epoxy) that are 30 years old and look the same as new. I have always used hardboard or MDF depending on what I was going to do with the final print; i.e. framed or not. I started out using contact cement and graduated to 3M 77 to mount the print to the board. I don't use gatorboard or the like because quite frankly sssshhhhhhhhhhhh I think they are a rip off and for people that don't know any better! Or, I'm ignorant to the darn stuff! Forget I just typed that last sentence because it will start a flame war, remember, I'm not a person who understands archival photography. I will mount the print and then seal it with PPG lacquer, then I approach the next phase one of two ways, either I use multiple coats of PPG automotive acrylic urethane or I use pour on epoxy; pick one http://www.rustoleum.com/CBGProduct.asp?pid=448
I like the spray or pour on products because I can hand rub the finish that exceeds any type of glass or acrylic, however be prepared for elbow grease for the ultimate finish, you can wet sand these products (yes, you can wet sand a photograph coated with acrylic urethane or epoxy) and buff them with rubbing / polishing compounds, finish with Mequiars glaze and you will have a finish unparalleled to anything you have seen. Again, it is very time consuming and I'm not sure about museum standards or archival qualities. I use the same type products on computer cases I paint (several thousand dollars) and they last. I have restored about 25 cars and been a master cabinet / furniture maker for over 30 years. I know you can get a print mounted to glass or acrylic within minutes, but this look exceeds that exponentially IMHO. As always YMMV, but if you don't mind some work it's a very nice process.

I generally use semi-gloss or glossy media. You can use matte since the finish is so thick.

Colorwave · « **Reply #5 on:** February 20, 2011, 01:39:45 am »

Hmmmm. I really love working with epoxy resins because they are so forgiving. They are self leveling and tiny bubbles in the uncured resin can be popped very easily with a waft of a propane torch. Acrylic urethane is much more toxic to work with and IMO requires more equipment and skill to apply (although less skill than a quality lacquer finish). I always feel really weird in the head after spray significant amounts of urethane if I only use a normal respirator that does not have supplied air (because of tiny air leaks in traditional regulators). Unfortunately, although they are much friendlier to use, I've found epoxy resins (I've mainly used marine grade epoxy and resins bought from art or craft supply places) all tend to yellow in just a couple of years. I've never tried decoupaging nice photographic prints, but would lean toward the time tested automotive products over the less toxic epoxies if yellowing was a concern. Gemmtech, have you not noticed any yellowing in your prints when you have used epoxy? With either approach, if you are mounting with 3M 77, give it time to outgass thoroughly before top coating to avoid trapping solvent under the finish.

Gemmtech · « **Reply #6 on:** February 20, 2011, 07:21:50 am »

I haven't had an issue with yellowing especially in just a couple years, but I have to imagine everything that is varnish (even glass) changes with time. I suppose this would be more noticeable with a photo with lots of white. And naturally sunlight will speed the process up. I don't care about what it will look like in 200 years. Can't argue if you want basically non-yellowing use automotive acrylic urethane. You can't spray the acrylic urethanes without a very good respirator and preferably a fresh air unit or you will simply die. Supposedly the automotive refinishing industry is going through some drastic changes, they aren't going to allow just anybody to walk into their local body shop supply store and buy coatings (they aren't supposed to now), you will need to be licensed and the biggest change coming is all finishes eventually will be water based, YUK

. I guess I'm going to have to start experimenting because everything will eventually be water based. I don't even use water based urethanes on hardwood floors yet. There are finishes you can't even buy in this country (polyesters, extremely high gloss) and that's why all products come from across the globe. It will be very interesting to see where it all goes from here, but while it's available have fun! I only use lacquers to seal, final finish is much too thick for lacquer, it'll crack over time.

Definitely have to allow the adhesive to dry and generally 24-48 hours works, but as always, do as I do, read the darn directions!

You have to remember, I have to assume that if you want your "works of art" to last 10,000 years or longer, I doubt this is the right process for you. I've had "experts" tell me hardboard and MDF aren't "archival" and I said neither is wood, but there's a lot of paintings from the old masters painted on wood, the Mona Lisa is one. I don't know what the life expectancy of MDF or hardboard is, but it's probably much greater than the glue and or finish and I really don't know how long they will last.

Aristoc · « **Reply #7 on:** February 20, 2011, 11:30:09 am »

Great info. For my project I intend to do in a few weeks time is to use wood boards. Not masonite.

I will have to use adhesive spary to mount the glossy RC paper. Probably will be Epson I don't know for sure.
3M also makes a special photo mount adhesive, different from 77. I will use it over 77 which seems to be an all purpose type.

I will then coat the image with a protectant.Like one by hahnemuhle or something less expensive

Finally, I will apply the resin. Not anything from the boating store but rather something I find at the art store that does not yellow. Apparently many resins yellow from heat, UV rays etc. A piece of tape around the wood board edges, will keep it off that part. I'll remove it after the resin dries. Probably level the board before I pour. So far as I know, bubbles will rise to the surface and shouldn't be a big problem if I am careful.

Gemmtech · « **Reply #8 on:** February 20, 2011, 12:46:03 pm »

When you say "wood boards" what exactly do you mean? Your mounting surface should be the most stable piece of backing you can buy and hardboard and MDF are much more stable than hardwood; remember, EVERYTHING expands and contracts and the former does it a lot less.

Colorwave · « **Reply #9 on:** February 20, 2011, 01:34:28 pm »

Aristoc-
I've done quite a lot of resin coating like you are wanting to do, although mostly for display and not fine art. I don't think you will have any success using a tape frisket on the edges, as the tape will be encapsulated under the resin or produce a torn looking edge if you pull it before the resin has fully cured. It is just too thick to do what you are planning. I suggest that you encapsulate the edges and let it run over them when you pour. If you elevate the board, it will produce drips on the bottom (back) of the board, which can then be sanded flush to the backside with an orbital or hand sander later. Gemmtech is right about board stability, too. Laminates or composites are all more stable than even the finest solid wood materials. I can't tell what the one in your photo is made of, but unless it is a gluelam panel it will most likely warp. Resins produce heat when curing, and will expand and contract differently than the wood over time. With only one surface covered in resin, it will want to cup the board (usually concave on the face). Also, the photo mount is just a less aggressive version of 77. I don't think that it has any other special properties. It can lay down a little smoother than 77 if you are not experienced at spraying adhesives, but I don't think it has any other advantages.

Gemmtech · « **Reply #10 on:** February 20, 2011, 07:29:26 pm »

I'm curious; why don't you want to coat the edges? I did that a couple times because I was doing a special edge treatment, but as CW states it's a PITA. You have to seal all sides and faces of the board regardless.

Aristoc · « **Reply #11 on:** February 20, 2011, 07:39:50 pm »

It's for aesthetic purposes. I was in the local coffee shop and a photg had his work displayed there. several prints from 24 X 36 and larger. resin coated. super glossy surface and looks thicker, like a layer of clear glass but more shiny. Very nice surface effect because it's not perfectly flat. It has a wet look to it. It's completely transparent. Mounted on a wood board or maybe other type of board it is a very nice way to present your work other than the old framed and matte. This had an artsy edge to it so I like it. I'll try to take a photo or two if I get the chance.

Stefan Fiedler · « **Reply #12 on:** February 21, 2011, 06:56:03 am »

For those of you in Europe: Genesis Product Development in Wormerveer in the Netherlands is specialized and does a great job pouring what seems to be epoxy resin on prints. The call it Liquid Gloss. see: http://www.genesispd.nl/?language=uk
It looks truly great. I am just concerned about the health- and environmental aspects of epoxy and similar resins - such as the critical content of Bispenol A (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisphenol_A)

Regards,
Stefan

Gemmtech · « **Reply #13 on:** February 21, 2011, 02:20:28 pm »

All the aforementioned finishes are very toxic and one should always wear a fresh air respirator. These products are all more than likely on their way out and water based finishes will take over. The day is coming, just don't know when. Supposedly 2012 is the year of the autobody supply license.

Aristoc · « **Reply #14 on:** February 21, 2011, 06:29:38 pm »

Now you are scaring me. I am going to contact the artist who did the resin work and let them do it for me.

Gemmtech · « **Reply #15 on:** February 21, 2011, 08:43:09 pm »

I don't want to scare you, I just want to make sure everybody takes the necessary precautions! It's a fun project and with patience it will turn out great. I've been doing this for a very long time and I'm a perfectionist, but even my first time went well.

Aristoc · « **Reply #16 on:** February 21, 2011, 08:57:46 pm »

Quote from: Gemmtech on February 20, 2011, 12:46:03 pm

When you say "wood boards" what exactly do you mean? Your mounting surface should be the most stable piece of backing you can buy and hardboard and MDF are much more stable than hardwood; remember, EVERYTHING expands and contracts and the former does it a lot less.

If MDF or hardboard is more stable, then I can get that. I didn't know.Still, I'm going to contact the artist who did the work and see what she says about it.

davidh202 · « **Reply #17 on:** February 21, 2011, 09:39:53 pm »

MDF is essentially fine grained particle board. As far as stability that is mechanical in nature,
yes it is very stable....but these products tend to be very acidic due to their very composition , and I'd really wonder about the affects of chemical off gassing over time? MDF is also very heavy for large size prints.
from wikipedia
"Formaldehyde resins are commonly used to bind MDF together, and testing has consistently revealed that MDF products emit urea-formaldehyde and other volatile organic compounds. Urea-formaldehyde is always being slowly released from the surface of MDF. When painting it is good idea to coat the whole of the product in order to seal in the urea-formaldehyde".

The " gloss decopage look" is very nice for a clean contemporary display,
I guess it really boils down to just what kind of life expectancy you expect out of the displayed prints.

Gemmtech · « **Reply #18 on:** February 22, 2011, 12:41:44 am »

"MDF is essentially fine grained particle board"

Not true, MDF and Particle Board are not the same, or technically really even close, nor are they generally used for the same applications. Particle board has been around since probably the 1940s and I doubt MDF came along until the 1980s. MDF is much more stable and so is used more for doors which do not warp and underneath exotic wood veneers, because it's so dense and smooth. Yes, they are all put together using formaldehyde based resins as is carpeting, and many many other items and if you have health issues related to formaldehyde you'll have to have a house built and furnished without any of these products. There are pros and cons with every product, whether it be solid wood, particle board, OSB, MDF, plywood, etc.

Life expectancy? I don't know what it is. I do know you should seal the entire surface and I do know that it's possible for an image to delaminate, though that hasn't happened to me yet. Just enjoy it for today and for many years to come. My one bedroom set is from the 1950s and it's absolutely perfect, looks brand new, my parents bought it well over 50 years ago and my children will have it when I die. I know MDF will last a very long time, probably 100s of years, maybe 1000s who knows? As far as how long will the image last or the clear finish, I'll never know, my grandchildren might be answer this question someday, that is if I ever have any!

Aristoc · « **Reply #19 on:** February 22, 2011, 04:41:40 pm »

I just contacted the artist doing the resin and she charges $400 for a 2" 24X36 birch ply board.

Author Topic: pouring resin onto prints ? (Read 20996 times)