Architectural Photogs - What Kit do you like and why ?

[Dennis Carbo]

Hi All, 

Currently I use a MFDB on a Rollie 6008, and Nikon DSLR for my Architectural kit.  Since i have a V-mount adapter as well, a buddy let me try his P2 set up with V-mount sliding back etc.  2 Things I really loved were the ability to use live focus and the stitching ability. For the Higher end clients I use the MFDB, if mobility and speed is needed its Nikon DSLR.  So..it got me to thinking, I am trying to get higher end clients and will be using the MFDB perhaps I should look at a new rig ?...my thoughts are:

Rollei X-Act2  - I could use my current Rollei Lenses and still get live view and stitch i believe
Sinar P2    -   greater stitching and movement ability than x-act2 but bigger and more expensive as i will need lenses
Cambo DS/RS or similar Tech camera  - dont know much about these..never actually had my hands on one - probably most expensive option
Nikon D3X with T/S lenses  AKA - abandon MFDB and shoot everything with a DSLR ?


I do make a living with my photography and plan to keep doing so so i will invest in equipment as needed, but started later in life than a lot of you, I have a lot to learn and realize it - I am really humbled at the level of work many of you produce....that being said  just kinda thinking out loud so no need to slap me around guys - be gentle ! LOL.....Thoughts ?

Regards,

Happy shooting

Dennis

[Dennis Carbo]

John,

That is a great bit of advice, I am glad to hear your take on the business....My previous career was actually Sales !  I suppose many of my sales skills have transitioned to building a photography career - perhaps its a good formula to keep on with. So far I have just improvised and done what I thought looked good in the frame to me.

Still....I sometimes feel like a deer on the Ice....legs all slippin and sliding !  Its a tough time to start a business from scratch - I set goals every year and try to figure out how to get there.  One way is to ask advice on LULA !  So thanks again for the advice I will take it to heart !

Regards,

Dennis

[Kirk Gittings]

I agree a fair amount with John. I make my living shooting Arch with a 5DMKII and T/S lenses, and have not had any issues with that even with big national clients. The only complaint I have gotten is that the native files are too big.....really. I have no plans to move up to MF. On the other hand, I try to impress my clients with my images, not my equipment. I might add, by my actual testing, that while the DS3 has somewhat better IQ than Canon, the Canon 24 TS II lens is slightly better than the Nikon optically and much better mechanically. Glass like T/S lenses don't get upgraded very often but bodies will. Both Canon and Nikon just upgraded their wide T/S lenses so these are what we will have to live with for quite a few years. In DSLRs, buy the best glass and the competition between the companies will steadily, every two years upgrade the IQ of their bodies. the DS3 is ahead right now in terms of dynamic range (which is always nice but not necessary), but the next round of Canons will catch up. And yes stitching is a normal part of my shooting. I do 3-6 on every shoot and it is effortless with DSLR T/S lenses.

However.......client relations (I would include salesmanship in this) are very very important to me and should be to everyone for sure, BUT CRs are still very much secondary to the quality of the work. Some clients will hire a complete asshole if his/her images are superior. They only have to put up with him for like two or three days right? They will chalk it up to him/her just being a narcissistic artist (not an uncommon trait in designers either-they get this). You can offer the best CRs, but if the images are inferior, only clueless clients will hire you and the best designers are NOT clueless when it comes to images. And price is important too. There are some incredible designers out there with great futures who early in there career don't have the big bucks. Find those guys=do incredible images and they will be with you for life. That is the holy trinity, images/relationships/price.

[uaiomex]

Great post Kirk.
I do too arch and interior design photography as main income these days. I also work with a 5DII and T/S glass. I'm impatiently waiting for the new 45&90 TS's.
The national magazine (sheet-fed coated) I mainly work to, is completely satisfied with my files. Since my 17TS my work looks better in terms of resolution, color and dynamic range. I'm almost 58. It is godsend to work with the help and the immediacy of a modern dslr in communion with tilt&shift glass and yet being able to produce a gorgeous 24"X36" ink-jet print. Live view is now a "how could I lived without" thing. I'm expecting the 5D3 to come up with a vari-angle lcd screen with even more resolution. That alone (I know) is going to help me find and get better angles and different perspectives. The righ-angle viewer is so awkward and difficult to use!. I couldn't be any happier. Nowadays, digital MF is like a teenager's dream vanished, until the day I win the lotto!  
Eduardo

I agree a fair amount with John. I make my living shooting Arch with a 5DMKII and T/S lenses, and have not had any issues with that even with big national clients. The only complaint I have gotten is that the native files are too big.....really. I have no plans to move up to MF. On the other hand, I try to impress my clients with my images, not my equipment. I might add, by my actual testing, that while the DS3 has somewhat better IQ than Canon, the Canon 24 TS II lens is slightly better than the Nikon optically and much better mechanically. Glass like T/S lenses don't get upgraded very often but bodies will. Both Canon and Nikon just upgraded their wide T/S lenses so these are what we will have to live with for quite a few years. In DSLRs, buy the best glass and the competition between the companies will steadily, every two years upgrade the IQ of their bodies. the DS3 is ahead right now in terms of dynamic range (which is always nice but not necessary), but the next round of Canons will catch up. And yes stitching is a normal part of my shooting. I do 3-6 on every shoot and it is effortless with DSLR T/S lenses.

However.......client relations (I would include salesmanship in this) are very very important to me and should be to everyone for sure, BUT CRs are still very much secondary to the quality of the work. Some clients will hire a complete asshole if his/her images are superior. They only have to put up with him for like two or three days right? They will chalk it up to him/her just being a narcissistic artist (not an uncommon trait in designers either-they get this). You can offer the best CRs, but if the images are inferior, only clueless clients will hire you and the best designers are NOT clueless when it comes to images. And price is important too. There are some incredible designers out there with great futures who early in there career don't have the big bucks. Find those guys=do incredible images and they will be with you for life. That is the holy trinity, images/relationships/price.

[ChristopherBarrett]

Edit:

I wrote that kind of late last night after a long day shooting and a few beers, so I'm scrapping the whole reply and starting over.  I would suggest you try to standardize your platform.

I shoot almost nothing but architecture and furniture.  Here's the kit I take out to each shoot:

Arca Swiss M Line 2 View Camera  All about it here.
Arca Swiss Rm3d Tech Camera  All about that here.

Lenses (which can mount on either)  35mm, 43mm, 55mm, 70mm, 90mm, 135mm, 180mm

Phase One P65+

Canon 5d2
17mm TS-e, 24mm TS-e, 17-40 zoom, Leica R 28-70

Red One
RPZ 17-50mm, Cooke Panchro/i Primes (18,25,32,50,85,100) and a couple Zeiss ZF's 35, 85

THIS IS WAY TOO MUCH CRAP!!!  But I use every bit of it.

I would love to use only the 5d2 and totally pimp it out, but I prefer working with the tech/view camera for composing stills and that little extra image quality.  The Red is obviously for film work, which sadly the 5d2 isn't adequate for... moire problems are killer in architecture.

Which way should YOU go?  Really depends on what you shoot.  If it was only architecture, I'd tell you to ditch the Nikon and get a tech camera and a few lenses.  You'd still have the Rollei for added flexibility.

For maximum flexibility/usability I'd almost favor selling everything and going Canon.  Buy the full TS-e line and some fast primes for people/action work... 5d2 1ds3... your call.  I say Canon, because even though I love my D3 way more than the 5d2... Nikon can't touch Canon's TS-e lineup.

You could drop down from MFDB to DSLR and none of your clients present or future would notice any difference in the imagery.  I notice that difference and have just a couple clients who do so I stick with it... plus I just enjoy shooting with MF more (I find Tilt-Shifts annoying to work with --- even though my 17 continues to blow me away).

It's not uncommon for me to pull the Arca off the tripod and put on the Canon when I find it better suited and I've never seen a client react... during the shoot I'm talking about architecture in a way they would never expect someone outside the discipline to comprehend and I'm showing them images on the laptop that they love and by the end of it what's on the tripod has no impact on their experience.

Well, heh, except for the Red.  That always blows everyone away... LoL.

CB

[jotloob]

I occasionally shoot architecture since about a year .
My gear is an ALPA12SWA + APO-GRANDAGON 45mm .That lens came out of my LF stock and was adapted for the ALPA .
As my biggest prints are of A2 size , the resolution of that lens together with my CFV39 is rather good .

Yes Chris , the IQ180 , that would be my dream as well . The year has just started and the production of that back as well .
We will see , what surprises this year will bring .

[Rudy Torres]

Dennis, you have to at least recognize the level of photographers you have posed this question to. The shooters that have responded are some of the top in the field. They will defend their choices of equipment simply because these are just tools of the trade.
Kirk is right. Client relations and impressive images are going to be your selling point, ultimately.

Kirk Gittings is one of the best. No debating that. But, Kirk implies (in a subtle way) that he's not using his equipment to make "the Sale". Maybe not directly but what Kirk shoots with is not low end. Lets see, Canon 5d mark2, B&h lists the body at 2,500.00. Kirk mentions "t/s lenses", plural, so he has more than one. There are 2 high end Canon lenses each about $2,000.00 and one mid range which is about $1,200.00. Add that up and that's pretty high end. I'm guessing he uses some extra lighting every once in a while (excuse me Kirk if I'm wrong) and maybe an assistant or two. I could be wrong there too. But don't be fooled Dennis, clients notice things regardless as to their background: Creative Directors, Architects, Builders, …the secretary following you around because no one else had the time, lol. Clients see you pull out gear that they know they can't get at the local Bestbuy.

Maybe and just maybe, there is a perceived value at first: Client asks, just for conversation, "WOW, fancy gear. What are you shooting with?"
Then absolute value afterwards: "Fantastic images Mr. Photographer. Thanks for a great job and it was great working with you. When you deliver the images we'll talk about the Next Project."
Ahhhh, bingo… Value

You have to have the Right tools for the job. Learn the craft you've chosen. Create and impress.

Ah heck, you have a Rollei. Great tool.
Now, just go and become a valuable asset to your clients.

 - Rudy / El Paso, Texas
Sinar and Phase One rig

[Kirk Gittings]

Thanks for the kind words Rudy. Yes, Rudy that is the setup, all the t/s lenses, a truck full of strobe and hot lights, always at least one assistant plus an extra body. But truly IMO compared to Chris Barrett, it is relatively low end. The lighting is 20+ years old and Jim Hunter-the assistant is 60 like me. The same equipment I used for film-old and trusted  ! We use the lighting allot less than with film, but still need it.

I frankly love the ease and freedom of using a DSLR. I am definitely more productive and feel more creative with it. After some 28 years of shooting a view camera DSLRs are liberating and frankly just fun to shoot. I still love to shoot 4x5 b&w film for my personal work, but now that is a distinctly different effort than what I do all week and as a result more fun too.

[ChristopherBarrett]

Oh hush, Kirk.  You know you rock!

CB

[Dennis Carbo]

Thanks for the Replies guys !

@ Rudy - I posed here BECAUSE of the level of photographers I hoped would respond - I draw inspiration from seeing work I know is of a better caliber than my own ! It makes me even hungrier for knowledge 

I shoot about 80% Architecture, 20% Aerials

For Aerials is all Nikon DSLR with Tele lenses and a Kenyon Labs Gyro set up

Right Now my Architecture clients are usually Kitchen designers, Interior Decorators, Architects and very high end Real Estate - I've done some work for the State of Connecticut as well. 

Critique is appreciated ! 

www.dmcdigitalmedia.com

John S was kind enough to look at my site and I am in the process of making some changes - TY John !

I use a small Light Lowel Light kit with Pro Lights and Tota Lights as well as 4 speed lights on occasion using the Nikon creative lighting system.

@Chris I too am a gear junkie....champagne taste - beer budget however !

Perhaps I will try out my buddys Canon outfit for a week or two, I am very happy with my Nikon gear but not married to it !

Lot to think about,seems its more about the vision, composition and client relations than the actual gear...I just need to keep that in mind. I really love the entire process of photography,  even if I am sore and tired after a long day I cant wait to deliver the images and see their reaction !

[Kirk Gittings]

Oh hush, Kirk.  You know you rock!

CB

Yeah but my rocks are smaller and cheaper than yours !

AAMOF, I was "rocking" better up till this year. It looks like the recession is going to hit me good finally this year. All those projects that have been keeping me busy were set in motion years ago-before the recession-that big Reno project I shot last fall was started 9 years ago! There are some signs of growth out there recently published by the AIA, but I won't see any work from these new projects for a couple of years-unless they are houses-that takes a year. So time to put more energy into my personal work for awhile and ride this out. So I have two shows, in Albuquerque and Santa Fe, coming up of my B&W work. Never a dull moment.

[Rudy Torres]

Mr. Gittings,
Your welcome. Well deserved kind words. I hope to reach your level someday.
You know, there is one piece of gear that I like to mention to other shooters that I use, Ibuprofen. After a long day on my feet man that stuff is magic. Oh and a good pair of shoes.
Maybe we should start a thread not on lenses, camera bodies, pixels, or the latest software but rather what shoes we wear on the job.

Dennis, I hope you have a good pair of shoes.

- Rudy

[ctz]

Maybe we should start a thread not on lenses, camera bodies, pixels, or the latest software but rather what shoes we wear on the job.

- Rudy

Yeah, that's funny and in the same time deadly serious!

[haefnerphoto]

Here's my experience equipment wise.  I shoot with both a Mamiya 645 with a full compliment of lenses using a P45 and Canon 5Dmk2's with both wide T/S's and two L series zooms.  While the files my P45 produce I find superior, the shift functions on the Canon 17 and 24 are a real advantage and the 24 has amazing edge to edge sharpness (the 17 is good but not as good as the 24).  The tech cameras are very interesting to me, I'd love to buy one and a few lenses but I can't put together a business plan that justifies the expense (the same applies to a new back, unfortunately).  My hope is that the Canon resolution continues to improve with the advent of the 5dmk3 and also I recently bought a Mirex T/S adaptor that seems pretty slick (I'll put it to the test Saturday) but it will allow me to utilize my old Mamiya lenses on the Canon with a pretty full range of movements.  For shoes (both everyday and golf) I recommend the Ecco brand.  Jim

[Kirk Gittings]

Mr. Gittings,
Your welcome. Well deserved kind words. I hope to reach your level someday.
You know, there is one piece of gear that I like to mention to other shooters that I use, Ibuprofen. After a long day on my feet man that stuff is magic. Oh and a good pair of shoes.
Maybe we should start a thread not on lenses, camera bodies, pixels, or the latest software but rather what shoes we wear on the job.

Dennis, I hope you have a good pair of shoes.

- Rudy

Ibuprofen is a regular part of my kit too. Those long days on concrete in summer from sunrise to well after sunset can be brutal. Even so I'd rather be out in the hot sun than in the studio. I wear MBTs. They are easy on bad knees-absorbing the shock.

[aaronleitz]

I really like using the Nikon D3x.  It's fast and quick to shoot like a DSLR and has a file almost as flexible as digital back. It really works well for my style of shooting as I don't use much lighting and tend to do a lot of post work and really push the files (especially in the shadows). Canon's T/S lenses do have me going back and forth a bit as I have heard they are noticeably better than Nikon's offerings. I haven't tested this myself. And that 5DmkII is just so incredibly inexpensive for all that it brings to the table. Pretty amazing.

But like everyone else said, all the gear talk takes a seat way in the back when it comes to making great imagery. I've found that the more talented and successful the client the less they care about what kind of camera you're using. That type of stuff just isn't on their radar. All they care about is the finished image.

[adammork]

I really like using the Nikon D3x.

So did I, then I testet the new 24 & 17 mm ts from canon.... Now I have a 5dII, a plastic camera with lesser quality files compared to the D3x - but the lenses are great - just a bit of a warning 

[tesfoto]

For shoes (both everyday and golf) I recommend the Ecco brand.  Jim

Danish back
Danish shoes

;-)

[tesfoto]

For Architecture I used to use a P45+ on a Cambo WRS with Schneider 24XL, 35XL, 47XL and 72, I was planning on getting the Rodenstock 23HR for larger image circle than the 24XL.

Then Canon came out with the new 17TS and 24TS, and I got these lenses and a 5DII for the price of the 23HR.

These 2 lenses changed the game for me. Now the Cambo mostly stays at home, I work with 1DsMKIII (I much prefer the 1DsMKIII files over the 5DII, the 5DII also looks like a toy camera) and 17TS, 24TS, 45TS (Canon please update this lens) and 90TS, also in the bag an excellent copy of the 100-400.

None of my clients has ever questioned my choice of equipment...

[tesfoto]

I gladly use a 5DII, and I take no personal issue with comments about the gear, but I don't get the plastic camera comments. They never make sense. The CF card door on the 5DII sucks but otherwise it's a solid little camera, with a full metal chassis: http://a.img-dpreview.com/reviews/CanonEOS5DMarkII/Images/bodyinwhite.jpg

Compared to the 1DsMKIII or D3X it feels like a toy camera - files are good, but I much prefer the handling of the 1DsMKIII.

One thing I really like is the C1-C3 custom function on the 5D, I wish the 1Ds had a similar function.

OK and the 5D have excellent movie function.