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Author Topic: Looking for info on a clear gloss roll laminate product for my metallic prints.  (Read 12096 times)

dgberg

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Have had my Seal laminator for a month and have tested all the products Seal sent me. I am still not able to laminate my metallic prints without a mottled or almost leather look.
Print Shield gloss and Lustre were recommended but look almost textured like a textured fine art paper after laminating. Really not the look I am after at all. I have Print Guard UV Lustre for laminating canvas and it is much closer but still has a very fine texture. I may order the Print Guard UV Gloss and see how that works. I have some of Seal's Optimount for Plexi face mounting but is a 2 sided adhesive and really not made for on top of the metallic print unless I face it with plexi. Might be what I end up doing.
Anyone have a suggestion for a hi-gloss laminate that will make those metallic prints look like they are faced with plexi? But without that plastic laminate look?
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Dan Berg
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dgberg

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Anyone laminating metallic prints successfully?
« Last Edit: December 23, 2010, 08:52:58 am by Dan Berg »
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fetish

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metallic prints as in paper prints (pictorico, red river, etc..) or coated metal sheets?

I havent tried laminating the paper prints but i had good results using liquitex gloss medium mixed with another UV blocking lamination liquid on acrylic print transferred onto metal sheets.
the end result is a thick, smooth, glossy surface.
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dgberg

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Not metal,metallic as in Lexjets paper metallic.
Have been experimenting with a half dozen roll laminate products and am still searching for a smoother product.
Received a nice polyester film from Shades Of Paper but have used about 25% with mixed results. Will be laminating the metallic print surface before laminating them to my dibond substrate.
To date have spent about $400 on sample rolls and was hoping to find someone that may point me in the direction of a better (Easier to apply) product. Roll laminating glossy papers is real tricky to say the least!

« Last Edit: December 23, 2010, 05:04:17 pm by Dan Berg »
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Dward

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HI Dan,

I too am interested in finding acceptable laminating for metallic prints.   So far the only thing I've found that gives a good look is diasec face mounting, which of course is a whole different approach.  I can coat metallic prints OK with Clearstar Type C or other liquid coatings, but I've had no good results with film lamination.

Keep us informed of your progress, please!

David V. Ward, Ph. D.
www.dvward.com
David V. Ward Fine Art Photography
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fetish

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I'll try to do some tests on my pictorico opalescent prints when i get back to my studio on monday. will update you again then.  8)
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Doyle Yoder

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In looking through my laminate sample books the smoothest laminates I could find are the GBC Octiva 10Mil Gloss, and 10Mil Lo-Melt with Prelume Gloss. The 5mil version of these are not as smooth. Their 5Mil Lo-Melt with Prelume Lustre Hardcoat is really smooth if you don't want as gloss a finish.
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dgberg

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Everything I am using is pretty smooth. The problem is the glue's on the vinyl give a mottled look, so the print is not clear. 2 rolls of 10 mil low temp hi-gloss laminating film came with my laminator. If you go super slow with the proper heat it does an ok job. Problem is it looks like you put a thick piece of highly reflective gloss laminate over your print. (Exactly what I have done.) Not a good look. The 2 mil polyester I received from Shades of paper looks like it should work except I cannot get my work area sterile enough to laminate usable prints.
The low temp Seal print guard laminate works great on canvas. I just gallery wrapped my first print that was roll laminated and not sprayed. Gives you a thicker fold because of the laminate material but other then that it looks really good. The big deal with this type of laminating is no ink cracking or scuffing of ink. The vinyl laminate really protects the canvas.
Their will always be issues. First and foremost will be is the look and feel acceptable? The low temp laminate is heated and roll pressed onto the canvas so the texture is pretty natural looking. Some will not like the plasticky look of the canvas. Just experimenting for now so no real plans to move this direction other then more trials and workshop demonstrations.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2010, 02:11:22 pm by Dan Berg »
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Doyle Yoder

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The low temp Seal print guard laminate works great on canvas. I just gallery wrapped my first print that was roll laminated and not sprayed. Gives you a thicker fold because of the laminate material but other then that it looks really good. The big deal with this type of laminating is no ink cracking or scuffing of ink. The vinyl laminate really protects the canvas.
Their will always be issues. First and foremost will be is the look and feel acceptable? The low temp laminate is heated and roll pressed onto the canvas so the texture is pretty natural looking. Some will not like the plasticky look of the canvas. Just experimenting for now so no real plans to move this direction other then more trials and workshop demonstrations.

I have been laminating canvas for a number of years with this method. Have you tried Seal's Printguard UltaMatte yet?  Speaking of folding, I have been using a technique similar to the Hahnemuhle Canvas Wrap Systems with the film laminated canvas for about the last three years. I still do traditional stretching if one requests it. It might be thicker to fold, but man is it durable.
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deanwork

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Intuitively I suspect that any lamination is just going to kill the optical look of the metallic simulated surface.

Most laminates I've used dull down even the dmax of rc media and I would expect it to flatten out the subtle effects of this kind of media. Even putting these papers behind glass or plexi dulls the effects to a degree.

j
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dgberg

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Intuitively I suspect that any lamination is just going to kill the optical look of the metallic simulated surface.

Most laminates I've used dull down even the dmax of rc media and I would expect it to flatten out the subtle effects of this kind of media. Even putting these papers behind glass or plexi dulls the effects to a degree.

j
I'm hoping that does not happen.(Killing the optical look.) We are talking gloss laminates only. My issues are mostly contamination and laminates that are not crystal clear.
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dgberg

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I have been laminating canvas for a number of years with this method. Have you tried Seal's Printguard UltaMatte yet?  Speaking of folding, I have been using a technique similar to the Hahnemuhle Canvas Wrap Systems with the film laminated canvas for about the last three years. I still do traditional stretching if one requests it. It might be thicker to fold, but man is it durable.

I have Printguards Ultra Matte and Luster and use both on canvas. I really love the luster on canvas if it were just not so glossy. I am going to order a sample roll of the Printguard gloss as it is the only one I have not tried on Metallic. At least I can buy sample rolls which saves me alot.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2010, 07:29:38 am by Dan Berg »
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jule

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Face mounting on to plexiglass in my experience is the only way to retain the Dmax and effect of the metallic print - and yes it may look plasticy, but with a metallic print you only have 2 options - to deaden it down by a soft laminate where the glue is a bit opaque - (which is what you are experiencing) ; or to enhance the metallic effect and look at the 'plasticy effect ' with a differnet perspective and think of it as 'enhancing' the metallic effect.

I would keep an open mind and try one of your prints and have it face mounted on plexi and then see what you thought of the effect. I would then let go of the fact that you have purchased a Seal laminator for the job - and unless you use it for other projects, I would sell it.  :D When you see the results you will soon forget the trials and tribulations you have been through getting to that point.   :D

Julie
« Last Edit: December 25, 2010, 04:08:13 pm by jule »
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dgberg

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Face mounting on to plexiglass in my experience is the only way to retain the Dmax and effect of the metallic print - and yes it may look plasticy, but with a metallic print you only have 2 options - to deaden it down by a soft laminate where the glue is a bit opaque - (which is what you are experiencing) ; or to enhance the metallic effect and look at the 'plasticy effect ' with a differnet perspective and think of it as 'enhancing' the metallic effect.

I would keep an open mind and try one of your prints and have it face mounted on plexi and then see what you thought of the effect. I would then let go of the fact that you have purchased a Seal laminator for the job - and unless you use it for other projects, I would sell it.  :D When you see the results you will soon forget the trials and tribulations you have been through getting to that point.   :D

Julie


I have been experimenting with a dozen different laminating processes with many assorted materials. I actually have plexi ordered and it should arrive next week.
Not sure I understood the comment about selling the laminator as it is the machine I will use for my plexi mounting and already use for my dibond mounting and canvas laminating.
I have dibond and "opti mount" adhesive for the plexi mounts and cannot wait to try it out over the metallic prints.
If your going to have a printmaking and mounting studio and also teach workshops you must have all the right equipment.



« Last Edit: December 25, 2010, 04:41:08 pm by Dan Berg »
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jule

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Dan, Sorry I didn't realise you used the laminator for other projects. I thought you only purchased it for the project which you described.

I have been advised that the best product to use is Seal - Optimount. I wanted to use it myself for my own art projects, but could not purchase small quantities for my project - so outsource it locally.

Julie
« Last Edit: December 25, 2010, 05:19:06 pm by jule »
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dgberg

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Julie,
Not a problem. This is a picture of one of our metallic prints laminated to one of the brushed stainless dibond custom frames we build. The reason for our trials is to enhance and protect these metallic prints.
Presently we are not covering the prints with spray or laminate until we find the appropriate product. For this mount we would prefer something thin like a crystal clear laminate.
Although we thought of plexi for this we feel it will stick out too proud if you will and ruin the effect.
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jule

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Julie,
Not a problem. This is a picture of one of our metallic prints laminated to one of the brushed stainless dibond custom frames we build. The reason for our trials is to enhance and protect these metallic prints.
Presently we are not covering the prints with spray or laminate until we find the appropriate product. For this mount we would prefer something thin like a crystal clear laminate.
Although we thought of plexi for this we feel it will stick out too proud if you will and ruin the effect.
Now I see what you are trying to do Dan. I still think that the face mounting is the only way to go to support and enhance the effect of the metallic print, but I do recognise the problem with the edge of the plexiglass not working with the angled edge of your mounting frame.

Have you considered cutting the plexiglass on an angle - ie a mitred edge the same angle as your brushed stainless dibond edge- then polish the edges of the perspex so it is like an extension of the custom frame mount you make??? It would require precision to get the plexiglass to match exaclty the angles and corners of the base mounting frame - but that's what framing requires anyway hey !

Just a thought.
Julie

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ghaynes754

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Dan

Just got a Drytac laminator specifically to do gloss laminates of Lexjet Metallic.  Initial testing with Drytac's Protac Glossy look great.  This is a pressure only application.  Maybe you could try some of the Seal PSA laminate rather than something that is heat based.

Gary
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dgberg

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Gary,
I will do that thank you. Are you cutting a sheet off the roll and laminating? Or just webbing the whole roll ?
May try the Drytac product as well. I have several vinyls like you are using but do not get a real smooth finish from them. I just received a roll of the polyester psa from Shades of Paper but cannot seem to lay it down without getting some sort of imperfection between the print and laminate.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2010, 04:15:08 am by Dan Berg »
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fetish

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Dan, as promised I did some tests with liquid polyurethane laminate on a pictorico opalescent paper print (hope it's metallic enough to match your print).
the results are not too bad - a total glossy, smooth and tough coating.

i've attached some rough pictures taken from my iphone cuz i was rushing for another meeting but if you need better images, i'll do a proper product shot of the surface when i go in tomorrow.

you'll see some scratches on the print due to me using a bamboo skewer to replace my glass coating rod (my bad).
the coating was done the same way you coat photo papers, just different liquid.
i'm quite sure the method can be scaled up to coat a 20x30 print without much problem. you'll just need a longer glass rod.

lemme know what you think.

-James
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