Nick Devlin reviews the Pentax 645D

[ndevlin]

The 80-160mm doesn't lose IQ per se.  Rather, it simply isn't in focus. This happens only at 160mm, as far as I can tell, which is where the lens stops focusing properly much of the time and just hunts and flashes. It's either a lens-specific firmware or communications problem, or a camera/lens firmware problem. Best I can tell, this is not an IQ problem at all.

@Bradley: It's virtually impossible to get a sharp shot on a 300mm Phasemiya, either, so I will be anxious to see what can be done on the 645D.  This will be part of my further review(s). I will take a couple of 300mm lenses into studio next week, to see whether they are IQ or vibration limited.

- N.

[ondebanks]

Thanks for the review, Nick.

Please please please please please please please please please please please (I typed all those pleases longhand - no cut and paste here sir!)
- do some long exposure tests with the 645D.

1) Can the user switch dark frame subtraction on and off?

2) What's the longest exposure it will do? On "bulb", does it go forever or does it cut off at some point?

3) With the lens cap on, in darkness, and with dark frame subtraction disabled (if that's indeed possible), take a 30 second dark exposure (note the temperature as well please) and make it available to us in RAW format. (I am presuming that it can be opened in standard RAW converters?). Let's quantify the dark current and see the extent of hot pixels.

4) Is there a sensor temperature readout in the camera, or is it written to the EXIF - like there is in some MFDBs and DSLRs? It would be great if we could see if/how the sensor heats up with prolonged long exposure use.

5) Stick it on a tripod, lens wide open at f2.8, infinity focus, ISO 1600, and take a 30 second star trail, again in RAW please. Doesn't matter if you live in a light polluted location; but a dark rural one would be smashing.

Thanks thanks thanks thanks thanks thanks thanks thanks thanks thanks thanks

Ray

[bradleygibson]

[timwilson]

Re: tethering, there's a video on YouTube of a guy demoing (in Japanese) a 645D with an EyeFi card, shooting into LR's auto import function, it looks like. Takes about 15 sec to come up in LR. I think I heard him say "jpeg".

-Tim

[Josiah Davidson]

Nick and Mark,

Thank you immensely for your shootout review. Very interesting, helpful, enjoyable.

I'd like to see a critial IQ showdown on fine, infinite detail foliage in soft light, like you get in a landscape at medium to far distances. I know of no other situation that is so difficult for a Bayer matrix sensor to handle.

Coming from decades of LF film (mostly 8x10), that is my biggest disappointment about digital. The scanning backs seem to handle infinite-detail foliage very well. So the problem seems to be with the Bayer matrix approach and not with "digital" per se.

Anyway, brick walls and bicycles are a piece of cake to make look good. Infinite-detail, low-contrast foliage is torture. If you could, please show us some. I would greatly appreciate it!

-jd

[Christoph C. Feldhaim]

Anyway, brick walls and bicycles are a piece of cake to make look good. Infinite-detail, low-contrast foliage is torture. If you could, please show us some. I would greatly appreciate it!

+1

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

I'd like to see a critial IQ showdown on fine, infinite detail foliage in soft light, like you get in a landscape at medium to far distances. I know of no other situation that is so difficult for a Bayer matrix sensor to handle.

Hi Josiah,

I agree that would be interesting. However, I think it has a lot to do with capture sharpening. Afterall, digital has a relatively high MTF for the spatial detail that gives human vision the impression of sharpness, but it will drop faster near the limiting resolution. Use of a proper lens hood can already make a difference. How much of that limiting resolution is visually affected by the Bayer CFA remains to be seen.

Cheers,
Bart

[ndevlin]

Anyway, brick walls and bicycles are a piece of cake to make look good. Infinite-detail, low-contrast foliage is torture. If you could, please show us some. I would greatly appreciate it!

-jd

I'd like nothing more, but it's late November in Ontario...we have neither foliage nor still air  :(javascript:void(0);

- N.

[ondebanks]

I'd like nothing more, but it's late November in Ontario...we have neither foliage nor still air  :(javascript:void(0);

- N.

So that rules out the trees test...and with the time you've saved you can do the long exposure tests, right?!

[Dick Roadnight]

Forget it.

Unless you can be absolutely sure that both of the images from both cameras are made at precisely the same moment in time the test would be meaningless. How can you possibly be sure that foliage at distance isn't moving or to what degree it is moving?

You could fire 2 cameras from one pocket wizard, and ensure that the photos have no movement problem by taking both photos with the same flash... then you would have to try to simulate soft ambient light.

[ndevlin]

So that rules out the trees test...and with the time you've saved you can do the long exposure tests, right?!

Your offer hasn't gotten sweet enough yet :-)

I have played a little with long exposures, and the camera does do a dark-frame subtraction, so it's not an enterprise for the faint of heart of impatient. I have so much night time illumination around my house, that it's hard, but I will come up with something for the next installment of the review.

- N.

[BrentG]

Thanks for the review and product comparison, Nick.

I'm interested in the long exposure performance of the Pentax sensor. Nighttime landscape images typically require at least 30 seconds - more often several minutes.

The Phase One P45+ handles long exposures extremely well. How does the Pentax 645D compare?

Thanks again,
-Brent

[Dave Gurtcheff]

Nick: Thank you for your review and "shoot out". I have pre-ordered the camera, hopefully for delivery sometime in December. Did you get a chance to shoot with some legacy manual focus lenses? I have five (35, 45, 55, 75, and 80~160), and am very anxious as to focusing ability. There have been posts here regarding certain MF cameras being almost impossible to get correct manual focus with. On the other hand the reviews talk about the large bright viewfinder image. Also the specs say AF lenses will apply auto-corrections for distortion, CA etc..have you tried this?
Thanks again for all the work you put onto this for our benefit...I appreciate it immensly.
Carpe Diem! 
Dave Gurtcheff
Beach Haven, NJ
www.modernpictorials.com

[tsjanik]

In a recent Mike Johnston interview of Ned Bunnell, President of Pentax USA ( http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2010/11/interview-with-ned-bunnell.html#more ), he specifies a 28mm f4 lens for the 645D to be released early next year (of course in Pentax time units that might really be two years)    

N.B. Nick, in any future 645D reviews please don't test it against any other popular cameras, e.g. Nikon and especially not a Canon with a zoom lens.

[jduncan]

I think Pentax is on the right track, but it lacks digital weather sealed lenses (and that is true in the dslr's line also) and some parts of the chain are nor very clear yet (tether, dedicated software like Capture one, accesories...). I think that there are compromises to date that I'm not sure will be welcome for a big part of the pros, included the landscapers.

Now, you can have a "cheap" Hassy entry system for not that much more and with a removable back that can be used on view cameras and an already matured system.

Being a Pentax owner, I really have difficulties to understand why a lot of people are seeing in the 645D a revolution, a game changer ?!?   I just see a nice alternative that needs to mature more. But it's just me.

I won't give up a Phase or Blad for a 645D, and I think nobody will.

Does it have live view? No
Does it tether? it seems it does not
Can we change the focusing screen to use legacy lenses with more acuracy? It seems yes and that's a good news
Are all their new lenses also weather sealed like the body? don't know
What's the sync speed? seems low
Is there a dedicated software that fully comunicate with the lenses? don't know, it seems that lenses correction is done in-camera only
Can we use the back on other cameras? No so stucked in 40MP forever in a 10.000 euros investment wich means upgrading will cost about the same each time.
Does the DNG format will be importable in Capture One? I think it will not be but not sure
How is the speed of visual lcd operation? refresh seems slow
How is the speed of connection? don't know
The camera looks unbalanced. How is the handling? seems good according to users but really, this body looks unbalanced.(gravity point on the left)
and many more questions I think. 

Just my 2 euros thoughts as you say here.

In my opinion, from a photography point of view,  your analysis is correct. If we factor all the missing bits from a system point of view (compared to the hasselblad by example) it even stronger. But the machine is a game changer because of all the people that will buy the system instead of the Hasselblad /Phase one-leaf and even the D3x.
Resource depletion will impact the bottom line and the research budget of the MF companies (ceteris paribus). That, for me is the real game changer.  A H4D-31 & 80mm f2.8 cost about 14000 US$, but it will never get the coverage that the Pentax will. That means the Pentax is about the get the mind-share, just like the Leica did.
Hasselblad needs to react. So does Phase one, maybe less, because they appear to be focusing, and doing very well in the High end. If Phase succeed at total control over the high end they will be able to sell the low end as a natural step in the right direction.
Pentax and Leica can finance ASICs with the 35mm line. Meaning they can finance performance and high iso logic on the camera. On the other hand this could do an iPhone effect and trigger in the minds of the people, maybe I should buy medium format, and that could be good instead of doom for the MF people and the ones that simply love them. What is clear, is the this are very interesting times in the medium format market. Not sure if it will play as a Chinese curse or as and English proverb.

[Dave Gurtcheff]

There is a lengthy review here:
http://www.photoradar.com/reviews/product/pentax-645d-review-0

[fredjeang]

Keith and jduncan, I think you are right in the middle and I join your analysis about why it's a game changer.

By the way jduncan, for not having a native english lenguage, I'm very impressed by the way you express yourself really. I wish I could express myself in english the half good you do it.

Dave, thanks for the review link, that was interesting and goes in the sense of the Lu-La field review.

Cheers.

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

I'd suggest that many of the MFDB buyers are landscape shooters and need neither tethering or high sync speeds. So I certainly think there is a marketplace for P645D like systems. There are of course benefits to modular systems, but a monolithic system may have advantage in accuracy, less parts involved.

The points you mention are valid, of course, but different customers have different needs. The original 645 was quite popular with outdoor shooters, especially in Japan.

Best regards
Erik

I hope the 645D will be as good on that respect than the aps Pentaxes with legacy lenses. The compatibility is total, included you can mount 645 lenses on the dslrs. Manual focusing is accurate with the green light confirmation, it does not use the same system as Canikon so you can't compare. Pentax with legacy lenses is excellent and reliable, but of course the lack of live-view on the 645 might be another story to get it right. We also knows that more the sensor is big more critical the focusing is so I imagine that it could be much more problematic.
If you use C1 it will not allow lens correction, actually I don't know what software will be used that fully take into consideration their new digital lenses. Tether is not supported...well, that's a good and a bad news. With no live view how can focusing be 100% acurate without tether with legacy lenses? Big question. The thing is a lot of 645D buyer will already have the old system and would like to use it.
It seems to me that is a product that needs to evolve, and it will I'm sure.
Anyway, if you buy the 645, you can also buy the 16MP K5 as a back-up and uses your 645 pentaxes on it. It will work just fine.
Also, the weather sealing is certainly not to criticize and I can tell you that when Pentax claims weather seal it is really sealed...but then lenses has to be ws also to make it sense.

I think Pentax is on the right track, but it lacks digital weather sealed lenses (and that is true in the dslr's line also) and some parts of the chain are nor very clear yet (tether, dedicated software like Capture one, accesories...). I think that there are compromises to date that I'm not sure will be welcome for a big part of the pros, included the landscapers.

Now, you can have a "cheap" Hassy entry system for not that much more and with a removable back that can be used on view cameras and an already matured system.

Being a Pentax owner, I really have difficulties to understand why a lot of people are seeing in the 645D a revolution, a game changer ?!?   I just see a nice alternative that needs to mature more. But it's just me.

I won't give up a Phase or Blad for a 645D, and I think nobody will.

Does it have live view? No
Does it tether? it seems it does not
Can we change the focusing screen to use legacy lenses with more acuracy? It seems yes and that's a good news
Are all their new lenses also weather sealed like the body? don't know
What's the sync speed? seems low
Is there a dedicated software that fully comunicate with the lenses? don't know, it seems that lenses correction is done in-camera only
Can we use the back on other cameras? No so stucked in 40MP forever in a 10.000 euros investment wich means upgrading will cost about the same each time.
Does the DNG format will be importable in Capture One? I think it will not be but not sure
How is the speed of visual lcd operation? refresh seems slow
How is the speed of connection? don't know
The camera looks unbalanced. How is the handling? seems good according to users but really, this body looks unbalanced.(gravity point on the left)
and many more questions I think. 

Just my 2 euros thoughts as you say here.

[Dick Roadnight]

Hi,

I'd suggest that many of the MFDB buyers are landscape shooters and need neither tethering...
Erik

I was thinking I would use MF tethered for landscape, as it would allow me to raise the camera on my 10m tripod to eliminate unwanted foregrounds... but this would be difficult (but not impossible) without daylight live-view... but I might me in a minority.

[ndevlin]

I was thinking I would use MF tethered for landscape, as it would allow me to raise the camera on my 10m tripod to eliminate unwanted foregrounds... but this would be difficult (but not impossible) without daylight live-view... but I might me in a minority.

Actually, since the 645D has an HDMI output, you could run a cable down to an external monitor, and have a very functional live-view equivalent. No quite as good as live-view, granted, but since I doubt you can adjust the camera much atop the pole, it would seem to be a solution.

Do you have any pictures of this beast, btw?

- N.