Learning How to Use Profile Editors

[nkpoulsen]

Earlier in this century, when I purchased ProfileMaker 5.0, I also took a class from Gretag-MacBeth on how to use this software.  But, the section on editing profiles wasn't that thorough.

I've read Real World Color Management and know from that book that minor editing of profiles can be advisable for some profiles.  My problem is that I don't have a good enough facility or knowledge of the ProfileMaker editor to make edits effectively.

Is there a source of information that effectively explains how to use the ProfileMaker editor?   What is recommended for this editor?

[digitaldog]

What is it you hope to achieve editing the profile (what does it ‘need’)?

[nkpoulsen]

Generally speaking, I like color management and have read a number of books and taken seminars to learn as much as I can.  Editing profiles is an important part of being proficient in color management, so I'd like to learn more about it.  I took the 4 day Gratag-Macbeth class on ProfileMaker 5 a few years ago, but not much time was spent on editing profiles.

Specifically, Real World CM comments that almost always, they see a need to tweak printer profiles to achieve the best performance.  I'd like to know better how to do that.

I have the Profile Maker 5 Editor, and it has a lot of capability.  If there's a document or reference that goes into detail how to use this editor, I'd appreciate finding out how I can get a copy.

[Peter McLennan]

What is it you hope to achieve editing the profile (what does it ‘need’)?

Andrew, I'm a different user with a similar question.  The profile I'm using results in a rapid cutoff in the deep shadow area.  Basically, I can print fine down to level 25 or so, below which everything is totally black. 

Is it practical to edit the profile to improve my shadow reproduction?  This is a custom profile, purchased off the web.

[shewhorn]

Andrew, I'm a different user with a similar question.  The profile I'm using results in a rapid cutoff in the deep shadow area.  Basically, I can print fine down to level 25 or so, below which everything is totally black. 

Is it practical to edit the profile to improve my shadow reproduction?  This is a custom profile, purchased off the web.

Are you sure it's the profile that's at fault? If your ink layout is too high (which might be caused by the wrong choice of media types (so that could partially be the profile builder's fault)) then the profile might not be able to correct for that.

If you print out an untagged image with a black background and a bunch of black patches (say spaced in twos from 2,2,2 to 32,32,32 (usually I do 8 patches from 2 to 16)) what's the darkest patch you can see?

Cheers, Joe

[digitaldog]

My take on profile editing is its useful for tiny tweaks, usually for cross rendering matches (make an edited profile that makes my Epson 3880 better simulate a press sheet). The other area it can be somewhat useful is editing the media white point. Otherwise, with the current tools, its an exercise in wasted time and media. IF you get paid by the hour and are implementing OPM (Other People’s Media), its a load of fun <g>.

Which table needs editing and can you control one or both with the editor? Why does the profile need to be edited?

The PMP tool will make just about anyone’s head explode trying to figure it out or make it work.

The best tool around is now dead, Kodak’s Custom Color ICC which allowed one to actually edit an image in Photoshop and then apply those edits (on color patches at the bottom of the image) to a profile. All tables, preview and or output side.

Attempting to edit a profile to fix anything more than subtle colors in rare cases is best avoided.

[Peter McLennan]

Are you sure it's the profile that's at fault?

No.  I'm floundering.  Thanks for your interest, Joe.


If you print out an untagged image with a black background and a bunch of black patches (say spaced in twos from 2,2,2 to 32,32,32 (usually I do 8 patches from 2 to 16)) what's the darkest patch you can see?

If I print a test image (a step chart) in Advanced BW Mode, I can see differences down to about 18,18,18.  Barely.

In colour mode, everything's black from about 30, 30, 30.

Highlights look identical on both prints.  Excellent detail in highlights.  Differences visible to 253.

Printing from Qimage, all colour controls off.  Same ICC profile for colour and BW.  (does Advanced BW even use a profile?)


Thanks again, Joe


Maybe I should just invest in a new profile

[Pat Herold]

Our rule of thumb is 'if you think you need to edit your profile, there was probably something that went wrong in how it was made'.   As Andrew said, with today's profile building packages they do a very decent job.  Things like loss of shadow detail might point to other issues such as how the target was measured, what rendering intent you're using, whether you're using black point compensation while printing (perceptual RI and BPC will give you better shadow detail.)

Having issued that warning, we do have a newsletter article that goes into the whole subject of profile editing, as there are some legitimate uses for it.  This does not go into the GMB editor as deeply as the OP is looking for, but it is something:

http://www.colorwiki.com/wiki/Editing_Profiles_for_Fun_and_Profit

[Peter McLennan]

Thanks, Patrick. New profile ordered.

"A Cost Savings Story" was great.

[Pat Herold]

Wasn't that cool?!  That's just the thing an edit should be used for - something weird like being able to use a strange media.