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Author Topic: Without Prejudice  (Read 477929 times)

Rob C

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Re: Without Prejudice
« Reply #400 on: March 09, 2011, 04:34:21 am »

Thanks for the replies, guys, but the PS advice looks as difficult to me as playing the sax must be!

Basically, it really boils down to my not being a PS whiz-kid (at all!) and without a personal demonstration about these techniques I doubt I'll ever improve. I have learned through the years that I can pick up on what I see far more efficiently than by reading the same info from books. The trouble stems, partly, from a sort of intrinsic dislike of things technical; wet photography was so simple and obvious to me that we both got on like a house on fire. There is no such love affair with computers.

I have studied the link you provided, Fred, and seeing all those saxes at once like that, makes me think that my own efforts aren't at all bad, either, except for this strange effect on some.

Regarding the lighting on my shown shot, I had no control over that: it was a setup that somebody doing a video had arranged. However, it was still a lot better than the natural room lighting that the bar provides, and to which the last two attempts at working there have subjected me. The clear winner in all of this is auto ISO that the D700 handles very well. I simply set the camera at that, add the max. high-ISO noise reduction that is provided as an option, and that's it: no other noise reduction anywhere.

Here's another shot during the initial session with the added lights. Again, auto ISO and 1.8/50 manual at around f2 and 125th sec. hand-held. The question I faced later was: how red/yellow is the gold of a sax when you can't see it? Remided me of doing fashion again, and wondering about the colour of clothes long gone...

Rob C
« Last Edit: March 23, 2011, 10:10:24 am by Rob C »
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David Sutton

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Re: Without Prejudice
« Reply #401 on: March 09, 2011, 04:07:22 pm »

Hi Rob. You have my sympathy about Photoshop. Until a few years ago I was happily using other editing software but realised I couldn't talk to other photographers in detail. The initial learning curve can be a bit steep. The thing I found is to know what I don't need. And not having anyone around here to teach me that was a bit tricky, so I ended up travelling across the world to Wales for lessons (very good ones too). Probably half the things in Photoshop I'll never use, but what I do use it does really well.  If like me you lose consciousness reading “how to” books there are good video tutorials at Lynda.com and at http://www.photoanswers.co.uk/Video-Tutorials/Left-Hand-Nav/Buy-Videos-on-CD/  (Digital Photo mag was a help). The all cost money but.
If you want to try the black and white adjustment layer then have a play around with it. Move them sliders and bend some pixels. I'm on holiday for another week and am happy to stay online one day or night and walk you through the rest.
Wet photography was magic, but  I never had the sense I do now of looking at a subject with a camera in hand, visualising what I want to show about it and knowing I can do so without limit. It's being able to visualise how I feel and having the certainty that my imagination can translate that into print. The limits now are of mind and heart. Be patient with yourself.
David S
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Rob C

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Re: Without Prejudice
« Reply #402 on: March 10, 2011, 06:28:38 am »

Tutorials/Left-Hand-Nav/Buy-Videos-on-CD/  (Digital Photo mag was a help). The all cost money but.
If you want to try the black and white adjustment layer then have a play around with it. Move them sliders and bend some pixels. I'm on holiday for another week and am happy to stay online one day or night and walk you through the rest.
Wet photography was magic, but  I never had the sense I do now of looking at a subject with a camera in hand, visualising what I want to show about it and knowing I can do so without limit. It's being able to visualise how I feel and having the certainty that my imagination can translate that into print. The limits now are of mind and heart. Be patient with yourself.
David S


Thanks for the generous offer, David, but I'm so tied up with current files and more to shoot on Saturday (Jazz) that I just don't have space to do anything for ME! I had imagined that music was going to be a self-indulgence, but it has bloomed into probable orders for prints from the venue owner (I should know tonight when his fellow owners see the stuff) but I've already been asked to do a wedding as a direct consequence of the first owner's girlfriend viewing the jazz pics... I told her I didn't do that, but if she convinces me... she is pretty, after all. But thank you very much again!

I enclose one of the current shots from Saturday: this time, there is no glossy metal - it's a well-used machine! Kinda like a Leica with bullet scrapes, or my old leather camera case festooned with destination stickies... Was a time it felt cool, now it embarrasses.


D700 with 2.8/180 on auto ISO, manual focussing, wide open and about a 100th sec. on two-legged tripod which is far better than a mono. (Not a Spanish monkey.)

;-)

Rob C

« Last Edit: March 23, 2011, 10:10:57 am by Rob C »
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Rob C

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Re: Without Prejudice
« Reply #403 on: March 10, 2011, 05:36:30 pm »

Okay, a change from a sax.

Still like the 180mm wide open, though.

Rob C
« Last Edit: March 23, 2011, 10:09:36 am by Rob C »
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fredjeang

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Re: Without Prejudice
« Reply #404 on: March 10, 2011, 05:43:40 pm »

Great picture. The 180 is stunning. I remember when I had the monster dinausor horrible F4 (after the delicious F3) I had the Nikkor 105mm 2.5 and I was in love with that lens.
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David Sutton

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Re: Without Prejudice
« Reply #405 on: March 11, 2011, 01:57:09 am »

Yes lovely shots Rob, but I suspect it is the person behind the camera and not the 180. I particularly like the piano player photograph.
The thing I like about photographing musicians is it's fun, because they are having fun and it becomes infectious. If you have a local orchestra try a session with them. That's a real blast.
David
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Rob C

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Re: Without Prejudice
« Reply #406 on: March 11, 2011, 04:57:29 am »

Great picture. The 180 is stunning. I remember when I had the monster dinausor horrible F4 (after the delicious F3) I had the Nikkor 105mm 2.5 and I was in love with that lens.

 "the pianist is a neighbour, too, a banking professional witness sort of man, with a bent for music. He's terrific. As I only go out with whatever is the the fitted lens these days, I couldn't get both his face and the keyboard in the same shot, so what I've discovered that I can do is a three-shot series of two heads looking down coupled to the keyboard shot. Side-by-side, as a sequence, they look okay, and when I've finished all of the images I'm keeping I shall have them up on the site - will let you know."

Okay, these (all 180mm) are now up on the site at the end of The Biscuit Tin gallery. Felt obliged to shoot the singers, too, because otherwise it might have been noticed and that wouldn't do in a small situation. Nothing wrong with them, just that I'm really interested in the instruments and materials at the moment and how these are melded with their users. Yesterday, I switched to the 2.8/135 and finally concluded it was a mistake: neither long enough for effect nor short enough to hand-hold, I wished I'd returned to the 50mm. Anyway, another 77 files to download and sort out... thank goodness I only take one card.

The drummer from the first lot has just had a heart attack and I'm told he's been given a double-bypass; makes me feel lucky with my own events in that department.

You just never can tell, can you, as I seem to remember Patricia writing.

Rob C
« Last Edit: March 13, 2011, 05:41:11 am by Rob C »
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pegelli

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Re: Without Prejudice
« Reply #407 on: March 22, 2011, 04:44:42 pm »

I think the name of this beach cottage can be interpreted in different ways, the choice is yours  :D

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pieter, aka pegelli

Rob C

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Re: Without Prejudice
« Reply #408 on: March 23, 2011, 10:12:52 am »

I assume it's an advert for the establishment? Quality over quantity?

Rob C

Rob C

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Re: Without Prejudice
« Reply #409 on: March 24, 2011, 06:01:28 pm »

Solved my Photoshop problem this evening, got the masking function back and the whole thing is now in English! It used to be in Spanish, so that's thrown me a bit...

Anyway, a shot from the last music session, with a new session coming up Saturday. They might start to charge me model fees. I hope I joke!

Manual 2.8/135 Nikkor wide open (I think) at auto ISO and shutter set at around a 200th this time. Two legged tripod.

Rob C
« Last Edit: April 11, 2011, 03:55:00 pm by Rob C »
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pegelli

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Re: Without Prejudice
« Reply #410 on: March 25, 2011, 11:53:47 am »

Love all your musicians Rob, lot's of character.

Here's a lady on the horn I shot last December at a concert at work:

« Last Edit: March 25, 2011, 12:52:53 pm by pegelli »
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pieter, aka pegelli

Rob C

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Re: Without Prejudice
« Reply #411 on: March 25, 2011, 01:19:57 pm »

Love all your musicians Rob, lot's of character.

Here's a lady on the horn I shot last December at a concert at work:




Thanks, it's not as easy as it looks, I discovered! Perhaps the difficult bit is waiting until they move into a decent spot of light and also decide to turn their heads to where you want them to so do... something like shooting ducks, I imagine.

Have you found problems getting the colours of the metallic instruments right? I've never done it with colour film, and with b/w it didn't pose a problem, but digi seems to dislike golden metal conversions to b/w. I suppose that making an infinite number of Layers could turn strange face colours more realistic, but two things stop me: I dont think it's necessary; it's too much like slavery! Shows are one area where folks shouldn't expect skin tones to look like outdoor skin tones.

I suspect that music photography is a bit like portraiture: you're as good as your subjects are famous!

But hell, it gives us something to do...

Ciao -

Rob C

Riaan van Wyk

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Re: Without Prejudice
« Reply #412 on: March 26, 2011, 12:27:05 am »

Love all your musicians Rob, lot's of character.

Me too.

pegelli

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Re: Without Prejudice
« Reply #413 on: March 26, 2011, 03:26:17 am »


Have you found problems getting the colours of the metallic instruments right? I've never done it with colour film, and with b/w it didn't pose a problem, but digi seems to dislike golden metal conversions to b/w. I suppose that making an infinite number of Layers could turn strange face colours more realistic, but two things stop me: I dont think it's necessary; it's too much like slavery! Shows are one area where folks shouldn't expect skin tones to look like outdoor skin tones.

Rob, I haven't but also maybe because I haven't looked hard (or good) enough

Here's a straight B/W conversion in Lightroom of my first shot. Upped the contrast a bit (by the curve), darkened the yellows slightly in the colour mixer and that's it.
Note the the girl is playing a horn with a matte finish, while the guy with the glasses has the shiny gold metal variant. What do you think, OK on the metal or or not?

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pieter, aka pegelli

Rob C

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Re: Without Prejudice
« Reply #414 on: March 26, 2011, 05:56:12 am »

Hi pegelli,

The girl's matt horn looks the same way that some of my glossy metal ones have turned out: I can best describe it as if the horn was a glass of milk. You appear to have been able to cover both ends of the spectrum well, so maybe it's just me, in the end.

The intriguing thing is that the same sax, from different angles, works perfectly normally, just as a good sax should. I'm wondering now if it is all to do with the direction of light - some weird form of filterless polarization or similar, maybe even a reaction of sensors to different wavelengths/colour sources. It would be nice to be able to get input here from some pro music photographers - unfortunately, I don't think Annie will oblige just yet.

The delay caused by my recent PS glitch has meant that I've become somewhat confused with my numbering sequences. I have tried to have a triple set of folders covering this little exercise: one for the first importation into PS from Nikon Capture NX2 called Jazz, another titled Music Images and a third, master one, called My Images which carries everything that I think worth keeping from  all shoots. The problem stems from the fact that in My Images, everything is numbered serially, from 1 upwards. I have then used the same numbers for the same files when they are in Music Images (the final workings), but within the Jazz folder I use a different code that corresponds closely to the NEF numbering. Sadly, in an attempt to make uploading to my website essier, I started a further set of numbers using a series such as Jazz 1, Jazz 2, Jazz 3 etc. which corresponds to the order in which I want the pics to sit within the website. This fourth system is applied to the Jpegs... consequently, it gets ever more difficult to know what the true identity of anything on the website really is; so far, it holds together because I have a list of conversions noted on a pad as I do the work.

So far, so good, but it is not streamlined and can only get worse. I think the way out is to abandon the Jazz 1 etc. serial numbering and use the same master number for everything and just put up with awkward jumping about at the uploading moment.

The tangled web we weave.

Rob C

Rob C

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Re: Without Prejudice
« Reply #415 on: March 28, 2011, 06:29:32 pm »

Did another shoot of musos on Saturday; I listen to klrzfm.com (swamp pop rock) most nights when I'm worlking on PS and it's surprising the amount of sax music that's there when you listen for it... only glitch, these jazz people (in the pics) have a sort of basic dislike for blues... seems it's too fundamental to hold their interest. I wonder, if you were a musician, where you should draw the line between pyrotechnics and emotion - I'd settle for emotion every time. It's just like photography but without the graphics.

Funny little things happen: whilst they were messing around with computers and mics etc. Fats Domino came on with Blueberry Hill - just a couple of bars (one of them must have wider tastes) - as they were setting up some weeks ago... the place went wild. Maybe the reaction should be listened to... also, they ended one session with another break from tradition (theirs) with Tutti Frutti. Everybody was on their collective pair of legs. Oh well, it is a jazz group.

Working on the pics with different sounds in my ears, it all comes together as sweet. So maybe photography's a step beyond.

Rob C

David Sutton

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Re: Without Prejudice
« Reply #416 on: March 30, 2011, 01:40:23 am »

This has been a really interesting thread Rob, and I like your musician shots, but I feel on the whole there is a lack of really cute stuff. So seeing this thread is “without prejudice” I have rummaged around my files looking for shots of kittens and baby hedgehogs. Alas I've found none, apparently I don't have the fortitude for that sort of work. Fortunately a trip to Edinburgh earlier in the year has saved the day, for I've found......SQUIRRELS! While I dig them out here is photo taken while setting up. I never knew they had a Pavlovian response to supermarket bags. Put a bag down and before you can find a camera, this happens:
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David Sutton

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Re: Without Prejudice
« Reply #417 on: March 30, 2011, 01:43:58 am »

We did find red squirrels up in the Cairngorms, but until I get round to that folder, this will have to do.
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tom b

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Re: Without Prejudice
« Reply #418 on: March 30, 2011, 02:38:08 am »

Rob,

"Unfortunately, I've run into a power pole due to some runaway soccer balls, so I have to second the opinion."

Come on, more info, much more interesting than inane half awake comments about the horizon.

Cheers,
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Tom Brown

Rob C

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Re: Without Prejudice
« Reply #419 on: March 30, 2011, 04:23:35 am »

Rob,

"Unfortunately, I've run into a power pole due to some runaway soccer balls, so I have to second the opinion."

Come on, more info, much more interesting than inane half awake comments about the horizon.

Cheers,


I really like surreal.

I didn't even know I'd had an encounter with soccer balls or even soccer hooligans! But then, being resigned (read condemned) to a max. of a single glass of red per day, how can you expect better where there's no lubrication?

Rob C
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