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Author Topic: Canon 8300 vs Epson 9900  (Read 10416 times)

mcpix

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Canon 8300 vs Epson 9900
« on: September 27, 2010, 08:47:00 pm »

I've owned an Epson 7800 and a 9800 and was ready to pull the trigger on a 9900 when I started reading about the Canon 8300.

I've read the other threads on this printer and everyone seems very happy with their Canon 8300. I've also read the 9900 threads were people have had issues with head clogging on the 9900.

With the current discounts (even factoring in the Epson discount) I can save about $2,100 by buying the Canon. I also like the fact that the Canon ships with 330 ml ink cartridges.

I've always been an "Epson Guy", but it seems like a no brainer to buy the Canon. Any problems or concerns I need to consider?

Thanks!


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John Hollenberg

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Re: Canon 8300 vs Epson 9900
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2010, 08:54:40 pm »

Probably your best bet would be to first read the relevant Luminous Landscape Discussion forum threads on the X300 printer generation.  They are nicely cataloged here (in case you missed any) so you don't have to search for them:

http://canonipf.wikispaces.com/Luminous+Landscape++iPF+Threads

After that, the most helpful thing would be to describe your intended use of the printer re: sheet or roll, type of media, etc. to see if any red flags come up.  As you will see from the threads, virtually all of the current owners are very happy with their printers.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2010, 08:58:08 pm by John Hollenberg »
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mcpix

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Re: Canon 8300 vs Epson 9900
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2010, 09:01:29 pm »

Thanks for the quick reply.

I've read most of those links and that was what started me looking closer at the Canon 8300.

My current needs are pretty simple. I print digital photos for customers on roll paper (Epson Premium Luster) and I've started printing
on Breathing Color Lyve Canvas. Ultimately, I'd like to offer some other "art" papers to my customers.

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John Hollenberg

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Re: Canon 8300 vs Epson 9900
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2010, 10:11:40 pm »

Just a couple of other thoughts, in case you haven't done these things:

--Check Reviews section of Canon iPF Wiki for any reviews you may have missed
--Check Known Limitations section of Canon iPF Wiki for any showstoppers
--Search Canon Wiki for 8300 (and probably 8100) for any threads about issues that might be important to you

I don't own a 44 inch Canon, but from memory there are a couple of issues that aren't listed in the Known Limitations section (I need to update it!):

--one poster had a problem with scratches on a non-Canon sheet paper which didn't occur on rolls.  I believe Canon reproduced the problem, and said it was a consequence of the design.  Not sure if it was this particular paper that was the problem.  I haven't seen any other reports of problems in this area.

--the minimum size of sheet or roll paper the printer can handle (don't remember which) is slightly larger than for the 24 inch printers.  Do a search to find out the limitation and whether it would be an issue for you.
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mcpix

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Re: Canon 8300 vs Epson 9900
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2010, 11:05:19 pm »

Thanks John for all help. I'm getting more comfortable with buying the 8300.

-Max
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abiggs

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Re: Canon 8300 vs Epson 9900
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2010, 11:23:48 pm »

I own both of them (the 8300 and 9900), and also have an HP Z3200 44" as well. I would be just as happy to own the 8300 or the 9900. They are both wonderful printers, both have excellent output and both have small things that I don't like that are in the usability category.

$2100 is a pretty huge difference, to be honest, and that can buy you a whole set of inks on the 8300. Food for thought.
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Andy Biggs
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narikin

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Re: Canon 8300 vs Epson 9900
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2010, 08:25:17 am »


The 44" canon is incredibly cheap at the moment - $2750 after rebate.  Epson 9900 are $4000 after rebate (they knocked another $500 off recently) both prices till Sept 30th.  So its a $1250 difference.

From what I gather, they are both great. The Canons never clog, which is terrific, and for anyone coming from an older 9600/9800 who watched their expensive ink go down the drain in cleaning cycles, every day... is close to Nirvana.  Epson deserved a heavy kick in the pants over that, and they got it from Canon and HP.  If you print, switch the machine off for a good while, then come back a few weeks later, then the Canon is for you.  The Epson has a slightly finer dither, and a long user history. and generally speaking wider user base (= profile support etc)

both are good choices.


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deanwork

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Re: Canon 8300 vs Epson 9900
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2010, 09:27:02 am »

Mr. Biggs,

Could you describe three things for me in this comparison:

First , according to the review I read of the 8300 is was described as having the best gloss differential and bronzing performance with gloss fiber papers of the three leading insets. Is this your experience?

Second, is the black and white output from the 8300 superior to the 9900, when using the True Black and White software, that I would certainly be using? Unfortunately Epson has stupidly locked out the use of QTR in their new machines and ABW does not equal QTR capability.

Third- The new Epsons have outstanding resolution in their dither, does the Canon match that at a native of 300 ppi? It certainly must be close by the review I read, which is a real improvement over the previous models that were a little coarse.

It seems to me the only downside of the 8300 is its massive weight. Damn, my girlfriend and I were easily able to unpack and set up my Z3100 by ourselves. Looks like you need a whole crew to move the 8300..... can't have everything....

john
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Chris_Brown

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Re: Canon 8300 vs Epson 9900
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2010, 09:30:10 am »

I would also consider the printer drivers when making this evaluation. I've owned both an Epson 9600 and Canon iPF8000 and each driver had its own quirks and foibles. For example, initially, I had to use ImagePrint with the 9600 because Epson didn't support the Mac OSX at the time. When Canon introduced the Photoshop plug-in, it was the deal-maker for me.

One area that can be overwhelming for a user that doesn't print every day is the Canon Media Configuration Tool. It provides a great way to program the printer for various media, but instructions on its use are not very clear.
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Christopher

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Re: Canon 8300 vs Epson 9900
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2010, 09:50:24 am »

You guys are so f****** lucky on the US... I'm just buying a 9900 and the best price i got is 5700EURs after all rebates .... The canon isn't much lower. 4000US are well 2800EURs, ouch
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Christopher Hauser
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abiggs

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Re: Canon 8300 vs Epson 9900
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2010, 10:05:08 am »

First , according to the review I read of the 8300 is was described as having the best gloss differential and bronzing performance with gloss fiber papers of the three leading insets. Is this your experience?

Second, is the black and white output from the 8300 superior to the 9900, when using the True Black and White software, that I would certainly be using? Unfortunately Epson has stupidly locked out the use of QTR in their new machines and ABW does not equal QTR capability.

Third- The new Epsons have outstanding resolution in their dither, does the Canon match that at a native of 300 ppi? It certainly must be close by the review I read, which is a real improvement over the previous models that were a little coarse.

It seems to me the only downside of the 8300 is its massive weight. Damn, my girlfriend and I were easily able to unpack and set up my Z3100 by ourselves. Looks like you need a whole crew to move the 8300..... can't have everything....

I haven't found either of the printers to be better with gloss differential, but I haven't spent too much time evaluating it either. If the 8300 or 9900 had bad gloss differential, I would have noticed it.

B&W output is about even for me, and I do quite a bit of B&W printing. I have used the B&W mode on both printers, and I have to say that I have just ended up toning my images in Photoshop and I print my images as if they are color images, so I am likely not getting the deepest blacks or longest print life either. I am going to install the True B&W software this week and will be taking a hard look at the results. This is something that I am excited about, I must say.

The 9900 prints are a little sharper, I suspect due to the variable dot size. This isn't something that I notice when I back away from a print, though, and isn't something that I think about for large prints. I would be something that I would think about for smaller, cut sheet sizes like 10x15" prints or smaller.

The 8300 didn't seem that much heavier than the 9900. If you have used a 9600/9800/9880, the new 9900 is much heavier and most close to the 8300 than the older Epson models. I have moved two of the 8x00 Canons, and yes they are beasts. What I love is that these suckers don't move when they are printing, unlike the HP Z series.

One thing that you haven't mentioned or asked about is the black ink switching. On the 8300 there is no switch, as there are nozzles for each of the black inks. On the 9900 there is a process that is similar to the switching on the 3880 desktop model. The process takes about 2 minutes and uses a minimal amount of ink in the process. It also exhausts the maintenance cartridge faster, because that ink has to go somewhere.

The 9900 is much better at printing cut sheets. It is a dream to work with in this regards. The 8300 isn't bad, but it is much much much better than how the Z series printers work with cut sheets.

You won't be disappointed with either printer, I have to say. The price difference seems to be closer than I had thought at $1250, but $1250 is still $1250.
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Andy Biggs
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mcpix

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Re: Canon 8300 vs Epson 9900
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2010, 10:26:08 am »

Thanks again for all the help. I went ahead and purchased the Canon this morning.

As far as the price difference goes, when you add in the shipping and rebates, the Epson was about $4,649 delivered and the Canon was $2,869 (from resellers I felt comfortable using). So I saved $1,800. Plus, if you figure that the Canon ships with almost $2,000 of ink (12 - 330 ml cartridges) and the Epson ships with about $650 of ink (11 - 110 ml) cartridges, that's another $1,350 in my pocket. All together about a $3,150 savings over the Epson.

The Canon really is a great deal right now. It's almost like buying the ink and getting a new 44" printer for $869!
« Last Edit: September 28, 2010, 10:36:18 am by mcpix »
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deanwork

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Re: Canon 8300 vs Epson 9900
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2010, 11:07:38 am »

Thanks for all that valuable comparative information. Actually I don't have any trouble any more feeding sheets on the Z after I turned off the skew check and keep my paper flat. But it does take getting used to.

I thought the dither would be better on the Canon than it was before but still not up to the Epson heads. You also have to remember the native resolution is 300 not 360, which has it's good and bad points (file size).

Man in either case these are amazing prices and they are almost giving the 8300 away to to freak Epson out I guess. It just goes to show you how truly horrible the economy still is that they are going for this amount. They are both worth a lot more, IF, they could sell them, which must be difficult. But you know I don't think the printers are where they expect to make a profit anyway, its the ink.

john
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JohnHeerema

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Re: Canon 8300 vs Epson 9900
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2010, 11:35:30 pm »

I agree that right now, in the U.S., the Canon IPF 8300 is priced incredibly attractively. Almost a no-brainer for people like me who only print every week or two.

Here in Canada, not so much. So, despite my reservations about the various problems that various folks have experienced with flaky automatic nozzle check hardware, and mysterious ink outages, I just ordered an Epson 9900 instead of the IPF 8300. Hopefully mine will be one of the ones that Epson manages to put together properly!
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narikin

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Re: Canon 8300 vs Epson 9900
« Reply #15 on: October 02, 2010, 07:30:34 am »

Thanks again for all the help. I went ahead and purchased the Canon this morning.

As far as the price difference goes, when you add in the shipping and rebates, the Epson was about $4,649 delivered and the Canon was $2,869 (from resellers I felt comfortable using). So I saved $1,800. Plus, if you figure that the Canon ships with almost $2,000 of ink (12 - 330 ml cartridges) and the Epson ships with about $650 of ink (11 - 110 ml) cartridges, that's another $1,350 in my pocket. All together about a $3,150 savings over the Epson.

The Canon really is a great deal right now. It's almost like buying the ink and getting a new 44" printer for $869!

Good for you!
Very true regarding the ink included and the rebates. the 44" Canon was a stunning deal.
those rebates have now ended and we are in a new quarter, with new pricing ahead. lets see whats next.
Canon it appears have a very good machine and are determined to buy their way into the market.
great for us, and Epson need to respond to hold onto the share. Hence the extra $500 price drop in the last few weeks.

Apparently Canons can stop and start for weeks/months without clogs, which means you will not waste as much expensive ink or paper over the Epson. I have seen a lot of very pricey OBA free all rag paper go in the trash each month because of clogged nozzles on Epson - they are much fussier. But.. in the end the Piezo heads are supposed to give the ultimate image quality, which maybe you notice on finer small prints. 

I think you made the right decision.
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ternst

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Re: Canon 8300 vs Epson 9900
« Reply #16 on: October 02, 2010, 07:41:11 am »

Have the same Canon rebates have rolled over into the new quarter - the note below is from the ITSupplies web site on the 8300 page - or does this just mean that you have until the end of the year to send in the rebate form?

Canon $1000 Mail in Rebate or Carepack Details in PDF Below, Good through 12/31/2010
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narikin

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Re: Canon 8300 vs Epson 9900
« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2010, 07:50:18 am »

Have the same Canon rebates have rolled over into the new quarter - the note below is from the ITSupplies web site on the 8300 page - or does this just mean that you have until the end of the year to send in the rebate form?

Canon $1000 Mail in Rebate or Carepack Details in PDF Below, Good through 12/31/2010

sounds like a rollover to me. will found out from my dealer on Monday.

wish Canon would update their 60" printer to 8300 level, and do a deal on it!
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ternst

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Re: Canon 8300 vs Epson 9900
« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2010, 07:56:53 am »

The actual rebate form on the Canon web site shows the date extended to December, but only $900 now for the 8300 instead of $1000. Kind of confusing on the IT site since they still mention $1000 good until December.
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williamrohr

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Re: Canon 8300 vs Epson 9900
« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2010, 08:39:05 pm »

Own both the 9900 and the 8300.  Results are very comparable except ALWAYS have to check the Epson for clogs before printing, whereas the I feel foolish checking the 8300 anymore because the next clog will be the first clog.   Bill
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