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Author Topic: High ISO noise performance of Sony A900  (Read 10250 times)

NigelC

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High ISO noise performance of Sony A900
« on: September 26, 2010, 06:36:12 am »

Following theft of 5D2 and roughly half my lenses by value, I think I need to consider alternatives as well as straight replacement when I get the insurance (would expect to get good price for 300/4IS, 1.4IIX 24-105 and 50/2.5 if I changed system). As landscapes are important and aim to do some studio portraits, I'm attracted to A900, although the only time I've tried it out, the body shape felt less comfortable than 5D2.

Apart from not having live view, the main issue is high ISO performance, which is important as I'm very much an available light person. I read somewhere that earlier versions of ACR did not handle Sony files very well and that latest ACR 6.2 (which I now have) is much better. Is this true and even if not, how well do Sony raw files at 1600/3200 respond to noise processing in ACR without softening?
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01af

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Re: High ISO noise performance of Sony A900
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2010, 09:29:33 am »

I read somewhere that earlier versions of ACR did not handle Sony files very well and that latest ACR 6.2 (which I now have) is much better. Is this true ...?

Yes, it definitely is.


... how well do Sony raw files at 1600/3200 respond to noise processing in ACR without softening?

They respond very well. ISO 1600/33° and ISO 3200/36° are fully usable working settings, and even ISO 6400/39° is acceptable for many kinds of work. However, the high-ISO kings still are Canon and Nikon. But at low and medium ISO settings, the Sony A900 and A850 currently are the best in digital 35-mm format with regard to image quality---none is significantly better, only a few are about as good, including Nikon D3X and Leica M9 (at much higher prices). At high ISO settings, the full-frame Sonys are pretty good but not top-notch.

If you really switch to Sony then maybe you'll want to acquire two bodies, an A900/A850 for studio and landscape work and an A560/A580 specifically for action and hand-held low-light work. I am using an A900 for sports and action (including 400 mm + 1.4× TC hand-held), and I am fairly happy except that sometimes I wish the camera could do 7 or 8 fps rather than just 5 fps. Maybe I'll purchase an A580 as a second body next Spring ...
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BobDavid

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Re: High ISO noise performance of Sony A900
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2010, 10:48:44 am »

The Sony a850 is awesome in the studio. It's great in any situation where there is enough light to shoot at ISO 400 or below. The latest version of ACR does an admirable job of cleaning up ISO 800 files. I haven't tried anything higher than ISO 800. Another nice thing about the a850 are the Zeiss zoom lenses. The 24-70 is the best zoom that I've ever worked with -- color, sharpness, distortion. I here that the Sony G 70-200 is great too and the Zeiss 16-35 gets excellent reviews. I like the in-camera stabilization as opposed to having that feature embedded in the lenses. I also like the color that comes out of the camera. The viewfinder is also mighty nice -- big and bright.

But, if I was shooting at high ISOs (beyond 800) on a regular basis, I'd go with Canon.
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: High ISO noise performance of Sony A900
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2010, 02:12:41 pm »

Hi,

Check this: http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/index.php/photoarticles/32-new-raw-processing-pipeline-in-lightroom-3-beta-2

But check also this: http://www.juzaphoto.com/eng/articles/sony_a900_vs_canon_1ds3.htm

I have the Alpha 900 and have no experience with Canons.

Best regards
Erik


Following theft of 5D2 and roughly half my lenses by value, I think I need to consider alternatives as well as straight replacement when I get the insurance (would expect to get good price for 300/4IS, 1.4IIX 24-105 and 50/2.5 if I changed system). As landscapes are important and aim to do some studio portraits, I'm attracted to A900, although the only time I've tried it out, the body shape felt less comfortable than 5D2.

Apart from not having live view, the main issue is high ISO performance, which is important as I'm very much an available light person. I read somewhere that earlier versions of ACR did not handle Sony files very well and that latest ACR 6.2 (which I now have) is much better. Is this true and even if not, how well do Sony raw files at 1600/3200 respond to noise processing in ACR without softening?
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Erik Kaffehr
 

aaykay

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Re: High ISO noise performance of Sony A900
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2010, 02:41:19 pm »

I mainly shoot the A900 at ISOs 800 and below.  Have had good results at ISO 1600 but have not gone higher. 

It is commonly acknowledged that the latest Adobe products have stopped mangling the Sony RAW files (unlike the prior versions) and have been producing some really good output.  I personally use DXO as my RAW processor of choice.
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Dave Gurtcheff

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Re: High ISO noise performance of Sony A900
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2010, 03:06:20 pm »

I have a 1DSmkIII and 10 lenses ranging from 17mm to 500mm IS, with 1.4 and 2X extenders. About a year and a half ago I bought an A900 and the 1DSIII has sat on the shelf ever since. I like the smaller lighter body (I don't really need weather sealing, vertical grip etc), the absolute practical sense of the dials and menues. Hit the drive button and you have immediate access to single frame, multi frame, MIRROR LOCK UP, bracketing etc. Easiest digital camera to work with I have ever used. Having said that I have only used ISO 800 or lower as my specialty is seascapes. The in camera stabilation is a winner....all kinds og legacy Minolta glass out there very cheap. AND the Zeiss 16~35, 24~70 and Sony G 70~300 are among the best lenses I have ever used, and I go back to 1959 when I used a Leica M2 and Hasselblad 500C. Excuse my enthusiasm for the A900 ...I have no finanicial interest in them, but it is a fabulous machine. See the "NEW WORK" page on my site; all were made with the A900 (albeit they are all low res JPGs). You can't go wrong with this camera at ISO 800 and below.  :) ;D
Best to all....
Dave Gurtcheff
Beach Haven, NJ
www.modernpictorials.com
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: High ISO noise performance of Sony A900
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2010, 12:20:12 pm »

Sony A900 and A850 currently are the best ... only a few are about as good

At least there is more that one best.

Is that a perfect draw or is one a bit better than the other?

If that is the case, how do you measure the gap?

Cheers,
Bernard

01af

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Re: High ISO noise performance of Sony A900
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2010, 12:30:08 pm »

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BernardLanguillier

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Re: High ISO noise performance of Sony A900
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2010, 12:55:45 pm »

Depends.

Hum... what matters then?

01af

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Re: High ISO noise performance of Sony A900
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2010, 07:23:07 am »

Hum ... what matters then?
Bernard, what's your point?
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pegelli

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Re: High ISO noise performance of Sony A900
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2010, 07:46:46 am »

Hum... what matters then?

Price / Value maybe? Everybody will have their own appreciation of the Value component in this ratio, depending on their needs.
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pieter, aka pegelli

urbanpicasso

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Re: High ISO noise performance of Sony A900
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2010, 10:15:59 am »

I think it's just a justification thing. After all it did cost at least 2.5 to 3 times as much, for marginal pixel peeping pluses. And that can go either way, as well, depending on the circumstances. ;)
« Last Edit: October 03, 2010, 10:22:14 am by davidbogdan »
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pegelli

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Re: High ISO noise performance of Sony A900
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2010, 02:04:42 pm »

I think there's more than pixel peeping pluses, eg. what lenses and other system accesories do you already own, ergonomics, rugged pro quality, sealing and service etc. etc.

For me the best price/value ratio came out to be a Sony A850, but can easily see how others come to a different conclusion.
I 'm not a big believer in "one size fits all"
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pieter, aka pegelli

urbanpicasso

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Re: High ISO noise performance of Sony A900
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2010, 06:50:28 pm »

I think there's more than pixel peeping pluses, eg. what lenses and other system accesories do you already own, ergonomics, rugged pro quality, sealing and service etc. etc.

For me the best price/value ratio came out to be a Sony A850, but can easily see how others come to a different conclusion.
I 'm not a big believer in "one size fits all"
 

+1
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jfirneno

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Re: High ISO noise performance of Sony A900
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2010, 09:18:35 am »

With repsect to the high ISO noise performance of the A-900 does anyone know whether the new Sony 16 mp sensor will provide much better noise performance?  And if so would that be due to the sensor itself or better software algorithms.  I have the A-850 and find it to be a remarkable tool.  The only place where I am tempted to look for a substitute is low light.  I'd like to have something for indoor work.  If the A-580 could give me very clean ISO 6400 raw photos (without PP) I would buy one as my indoor camera.

Thanks in advance
John
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jduncan

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Re: High ISO noise performance of Sony A900
« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2010, 09:35:09 am »

Following theft of 5D2 and roughly half my lenses by value, I think I need to consider alternatives as well as straight replacement when I get the insurance (would expect to get good price for 300/4IS, 1.4IIX 24-105 and 50/2.5 if I changed system). As landscapes are important and aim to do some studio portraits, I'm attracted to A900, although the only time I've tried it out, the body shape felt less comfortable than 5D2.

Apart from not having live view, the main issue is high ISO performance, which is important as I'm very much an available light person. I read somewhere that earlier versions of ACR did not handle Sony files very well and that latest ACR 6.2 (which I now have) is much better. Is this true and even if not, how well do Sony raw files at 1600/3200 respond to noise processing in ACR without softening?
This is not a critique, but maybe it will be important to know if there is something you don't like about the canon system or in general: What is making you to consider the change. Just in search of the best investment or there is any particular issue?
I guess that will be  useful info for the people that have own both systems (not  my case a Nikon shutterbug) to help you out :)
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english is not my first language, an I k

NigelC

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Re: High ISO noise performance of Sony A900
« Reply #16 on: October 04, 2010, 05:53:56 pm »

This is not a critique, but maybe it will be important to know if there is something you don't like about the canon system or in general: What is making you to consider the change. Just in search of the best investment or there is any particular issue?
I guess that will be  useful info for the people that have own both systems (not  my case a Nikon shutterbug) to help you out :)


As you say just in search of the best investment. I've probably concluded the Canon suits my needs better but worth looking at Sony FF, although much less readily available and subject to rising prices in UK compared to Canikon.
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: High ISO noise performance of Sony A900
« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2010, 12:44:40 am »

Hi,

You need also to check pricing on lenses and other stuff you plan to buy.

Nikon seems to perform very well in the high ISO area but the only full frame >20 MPix resolution camera they have is the D3X with an impressive price tag. If you don't need 24 MPixels the D700 may be an interesting alternative. Michael Reichmann did compare the Sony Alpha 900 with the Canon 5DII and the Nikon D3X and found the three cameras to be essentially identical regarding IQ at 100-200 ISO but found that  Canon and Nikon have one stop (or so) advantage at high ISO.

No doubt that Lightroom 3/ACR6.2 processing pipeline handles high ISO images better on the Alpha 900 than older versions of the raw engine.

Michael seems to indicate that the Alpha 55 has much better high ISO performance than the Alpha 900. That would of course be promising for a future A9xx, but the future is not here yet.

Also, keep on mind that imaging has a lot to do with physics, once you capture all photons there are there is only little to improve. There is certainly a physical limit for sensor quality. Much of the noise is coming from Photon statistics. Sensor manufacturers can reduce noise in sensor, but can do little about photon statistics.

Best regards
Erik


As you say just in search of the best investment. I've probably concluded the Canon suits my needs better but worth looking at Sony FF, although much less readily available and subject to rising prices in UK compared to Canikon.
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kpmedia

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Re: High ISO noise performance of Sony A900
« Reply #18 on: October 05, 2010, 03:49:31 am »

Isn't the A900 sensor similar to the Nikon D3 sensor? Both are from Sony.
Right now those sensors have an edge over Canon's offering in terms of high ISO quality.
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Long time Nikon user. Currently using D200 + D3s for sports photography.

pegelli

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Re: High ISO noise performance of Sony A900
« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2010, 04:15:58 am »

Isn't the A900 sensor similar to the Nikon D3 sensor? Both are from Sony.
Right now those sensors have an edge over Canon's offering in terms of high ISO quality.


Apparently there's more to noise performance than just the bare sensor, you might want to read this article on LuLa which comes to a different conclusion. Probably also has to do with electronics, signal processing and choice of AA filter. Only update vs. then is that the new Adobe 2010 raw converter process is significantly improved, especially for Sony, so now the gap is probably less than 1 stop.
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pieter, aka pegelli
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