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Author Topic: Leaf Aptus-II 12  (Read 66191 times)

archivue

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Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12
« Reply #40 on: September 21, 2010, 02:29:31 am »

as an architect photographer, i'm dreaming of this kind of large file (and can't afford it, my clients need A3 max. anyway... )... but i'm suspicious about the diffraction problem... if you need large DOF, you will face a real problem here !
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BobDavid

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Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12
« Reply #41 on: September 21, 2010, 02:46:28 am »

Good for Leaf (owned by Phase). I shoot a lot of fine art repro with a 39MP Multi-shot back. For sure, 80MP is a real boost in terms of resolution.  That back would certainly allow more options in terms being able to use Copal shutters instead of electronic shutters. The big unknown with this back is color accuracy. There is something to be said for exposing separately for r,g,g,b in terms of achieving better color fidelity. The pixel ingegrity is very high with the 6.8 micron 39MP back when shooting in multi-shot mode. I've yet to have a client complain about lack of detail in anything I've reproduced. I've also become adept at stitching, which is no big deal if you're set up for it.
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Fritzer

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Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12
« Reply #42 on: September 21, 2010, 04:11:14 am »

It's a big step forward in my opinion; I'm doing mostly studio still life, and the occassional landscape and people shots , all with an Aptus 75, on Sinar and sometimes the Mamiya RZ.
I'm also using the 5DII as a backup and walk-around camera.

The ratio of 3:4 is something that makes the new back a lot more useful for me than the current Leaf backs ; 80 MP are great, I can never have too much resolution, and the clients will love it.
Sure I would rather see an even bigger sensor, yet there is a reason why we don't see those, I guess.

A multi-shot back would be too limiting for me, that's out of the question; with that kind of investment, I want to be flexible.

It remains to be seen how moire is being treated by the Aptus 12 - it's a big issue with the A75 - and image quality in general, in particular when camera movements and/or wide angle lenses are being used on a view camera.
But I'm optimistic, given Leaf's experience and excellent track record.

Good to see the R-version as an option, and the much more affordable non-R model .
It's a great offering by Leaf from my point of view, the A12 looks very tempting to me, finally a real upgrade possibilty for my trusty old A75 .

What I'm missing is Live-View - is it not available at all anymore ?
Also, is the longest exposure time still 30 seconds ?
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narikin

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Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12
« Reply #43 on: September 21, 2010, 05:56:35 am »

The good news for all the complainers out there is that there will be some P65+ trade ins,  and that is a simply brilliant back with huge DR full frame sensor, and great color. A real step up from the P45 generation.  Well worth looking out for.
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Guy Mancuso

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Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12
« Reply #44 on: September 21, 2010, 08:33:21 am »

Exactly if there is a way for me to upgrade to the P65 from my P40 than i will do it and it's not for the MPX although would be nice it is for my lenses and the 1.3 crop. I would like to see my 80LS and 55 LS to be wider for me than it is today. Also I already ordered the new 35D but with a FF I would have better gap spacing and the crop lines do get in the way sometimes. So yes if there is a way at a good cost to me. I'm all over it


What many may not realize is the sensor alone opens many doors to different configurations and backs for Phase and Leaf. Always need to be looking down the path on this stuff.

BTW the 55mm LS is really really nice just did a nice little informal test with it and love it so far. The LS glass has a nice look to them and with a 80 mpx coming a good choice for it. You can check out the 55mm here if interested http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19555
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archivue

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Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12
« Reply #45 on: September 21, 2010, 08:44:18 am »

long exposure and noise ?
hight iso performances ?
allowed camera movements without colour shift ?
skin tones ?
moiré ?
colors quality ?

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Guy Mancuso

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Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12
« Reply #46 on: September 21, 2010, 08:55:05 am »

I would think the moire maybe less. I tested this once and noticed as the micron size got smaller so did the moire pattern. The rest we will have to see how it tests out, be interesting to see what this sensor can do and not do for that matter.

Frankly love to see this sensor in a P45/P25 crop factor which I liked a lot.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2010, 08:57:35 am by Guy Mancuso »
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Ed Jack

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Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12
« Reply #47 on: September 21, 2010, 09:00:25 am »

i notice contax mount isnt listed....
is this the end of supporting what is probably the most desirable camera system? it would be a shame

paul

No mate they want YOU to fork out on a new Mamiya/Phase DF and sell your nice kit on e-bay :o

I think we all need to sit back and take a breath. People want more MP, they must selling this stuff to someone to recoup the development costs, so it is selling. They will keep all the other "lower" lines going including the P25+ which is a fantastic 22MP back. So everyone calm down, you pick you back and pays yer money.

True I would have liked a cheaper "true full 645 frame" sensor or new capabilities like better high iso or in-back image stabilisation, but these things would be done if there were simple or cheap to do. Cleary they are not, whillst packing more Mp into the sensor is...and apparently they can do this without loosing anything (DR or much of a frame rate hit).

So its still progress to some extent even if most of us don't think its in the right direction  :-\
« Last Edit: September 21, 2010, 06:22:54 pm by Ed Jack »
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ondebanks

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Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12
« Reply #48 on: September 21, 2010, 10:53:59 am »

long exposure and noise ?


It's DALSA; so it's going to be relatively weak on these particular specs. Even in their technical papers they acknowledge that Kodak sensors have half the dark current, in pound-for-pound comparisons.

hight iso performances ?


With a base ISO of only 80, that tells its own story. Clearly there are no microlenses. When it's gained up 10x to ISO 800, don't expect miracles. However if this were PhaseOne rather than Leaf, it would be a good candidate for a Sensor+ pixel binning mode, with 20 MPix. Now that they're wedded together, might there be a technology share? But I'm sure if there was, we'd have seen it in the press release.
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yaya

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Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12
« Reply #49 on: September 21, 2010, 07:30:13 pm »

Apologies for this cross posting. Limited bandwidth and only a few hours left to sleep before another crazy day starts;

http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showpost.php?p=247609&postcount=29

http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showpost.php?p=247615&postcount=30

Yair
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e: ysh@phaseone.com |

delacroix

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Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12
« Reply #50 on: September 21, 2010, 07:52:50 pm »

amazing details yaya
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Guy Mancuso

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Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12
« Reply #51 on: September 21, 2010, 07:57:18 pm »

Pretty impressive.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12
« Reply #52 on: September 21, 2010, 07:59:59 pm »

Apologies for this cross posting. Limited bandwidth and only a few hours left to sleep before another crazy day starts;

http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showpost.php?p=247609&postcount=29

http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showpost.php?p=247615&postcount=30

Yair

Thks, the daytime image seems to be very free of moire and artifacts.

Micro detail rendition is good but shows a bit of painterly effect that might be the result of the distance combined with processing. Regardless, it would look extremely detailed in print.

The night image is OK, but there is significant image degradation. At 25sec you are probably already behind a P45 in terms of absolute image quality.

Cheers,
Bernard

Nick-T

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Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12
« Reply #53 on: September 21, 2010, 08:10:40 pm »


A multi-shot back would be too limiting for me, that's out of the question; with that kind of investment, I want to be flexible.


I might be mis-reading you but wanted to point out that Multi-shot backs will also shoot single shot just like a regular old back.

Nick-T
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JonathanBenoit

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Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12
« Reply #54 on: September 21, 2010, 08:13:09 pm »

Thks, the daytime image seems to be very free of moire and artifacts.

Micro detail rendition is good but shows a bit of painterly effect that might be the result of the distance combined with processing. Regardless, it would look extremely detailed in print.

The night image is OK, but there is significant image degradation. At 25sec you are probably already behind a P45 in terms of absolute image quality.

Cheers,
Bernard


Looks like they have been processed and the color noise has been removed. I still find statements like "multi-shot killer" quite alarming. Is there a need to make these claims if it is indeed true? I'm not very impressed by those samples. To me, the noise in the shadows is severe even in the daytime shots. Then again... whos looking at these images at 100% anyway
« Last Edit: September 21, 2010, 08:17:49 pm by JonathanBenoit »
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BobDavid

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Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12
« Reply #55 on: September 21, 2010, 08:59:59 pm »

Multi-shot = better color fidelity
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Graham Mitchell

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Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12
« Reply #56 on: September 21, 2010, 09:13:08 pm »

Apologies for this cross posting. Limited bandwidth and only a few hours left to sleep before another crazy day starts;

http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showpost.php?p=247609&postcount=29

http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showpost.php?p=247615&postcount=30

Yair

I appreciate the effort, but the hand-held and 'pillow-mounted' shots are not showing the system off to its best advantage. It's hard to distinguish what is camera shake, what is the limitation of the lens, and what is due to the back itself. The fabric image which was already posted was far superior.

I also noticed the 'painted' effect, which I find odd but as Bernard pointed out, it will no doubt look good in print.

I'll reserve final judgment of the back (rather than the system as a whole) until I see more reliable samples.
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Dennis Carbo

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Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12
« Reply #57 on: September 21, 2010, 09:21:22 pm »

Seems to me the sample shots posted are very poor quality - is it just me ? The shots look like my D200 at 400iso  I am sure a 80MP back will produce mind blowing images - i will wait to see in person  :)

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Wayne Fox

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Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12
« Reply #58 on: September 21, 2010, 10:31:24 pm »

The 10 * 8 shooters who still think that 60Mpx is not enough, and still use 10 * 8", or stitch 60Mpx to get res.
Well, 80mp isn't going catch well exposed and well scanned 8x10 film.  60 to 80 mp isn't really a big jump in resolution.  I used to think my p65 was close until I visited Rodney Loughs gallery in Vegas.
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EricWHiss

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Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12
« Reply #59 on: September 21, 2010, 11:30:59 pm »

The samples that Doug linked and those that Yair posted do look great but I'm wondering why this back is being advertised as a multishot killer specifically?  I mean anyone who's shot with a multishot back or micro step will know this is an odd comparison.    Besides having almost the same amount of pixels as say an older ixpress 528c in 16shot mode  (88megapix in true color) is there any thing new with this back that increases color fidelity or color tonality?  



« Last Edit: September 22, 2010, 12:03:36 am by EricWHiss »
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