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Author Topic: Leaf Aptus-II 12  (Read 68180 times)

Guy Mancuso

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Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12
« Reply #100 on: September 24, 2010, 03:36:24 pm »

5.2

Thanks Thomas. I just never saw that posted for some reason
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ternst

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Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12
« Reply #101 on: September 24, 2010, 04:14:49 pm »

It's kind of funny that one of the main reasons for so many megapixels is for larger and larger prints, but with the CofC so tiny the DOF really goes down quite a bit and is razor thin, which is a factor with larger and larger prints, so perhaps in the end the gain is not all that much as it may appear...
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Steve Hendrix

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Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12
« Reply #102 on: September 24, 2010, 05:08:47 pm »

I've been burned from viewing early samples that looked better than they really were (or what that product was truly capable of in standard conditions), and we've all seen early samples that look worse than they should. As a result, whenever I see samples posted, they barely register with me - these days I draw zero conclusions or assumptions from them. Instead, I look at the history of the sensor manufacturer, the history of their sensors, get a sense of the architecture of the new one, and take a look at the history of the chassis it resides in. Unless the manufacturer is touting something specifically different and new, my assumption is similar to previous, but perhaps a bit better, and then factor that in with the additional resolution. As a result, I draw no firm conclusions at all until we can shoot it and test it ourselves. And we're really looking forward to testing the Aptus-II 12.


Steve Hendrix
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ternst

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Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12
« Reply #103 on: September 24, 2010, 05:19:18 pm »

That makes a lot of sense Steve - so this back is really just like their others, just more resolution, and a lower price - headed in the right direction...
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Steve Hendrix

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Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12
« Reply #104 on: September 24, 2010, 07:29:15 pm »

That makes a lot of sense Steve - so this back is really just like their others, just more resolution, and a lower price - headed in the right direction...


Well, sort of. I expect that it will have similar characteristics, though not identical. The Aptus-II 6/7/8/10 gained a bit more latitude ISO-wise compared to the Aptus 22/Aptus-II 5 sensor, for example. Not dramatic, just a nudge forward, but not identical either. I actually feel good about the 1.5 frames per second capture rate. I always had the feeling I got a slightly better file out of the slower shooting Aptus products than the S series. There's something to be said for not rushing the data out of the sensor, though it would be nice if there was a "fast mode" option.


Steve Hendrix
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Graham Mitchell

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Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12
« Reply #105 on: September 24, 2010, 07:35:14 pm »


I actually feel good about the 1.5 frames per second capture rate.

I would too, but it's 1.5 seconds per frame ;)
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Steve Hendrix

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Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12
« Reply #106 on: September 24, 2010, 10:46:16 pm »

I would too, but it's 1.5 seconds per frame ;)


Aarghh, I meant seconds per frame. While I would like a faster capture rate, what I meant was the slower capture rate as a positive is that perhaps they are not rushing the data off the chip, which compromises image quality. I would love an 80MP sensor at 1.5 frames per second (instead of 1.5 seconds per frame), but honestly, faster frame rates hasn't been a driving force behind most of our digital back sales from the past year. I personally prefer 1 shot per second as a minimum, but at 80MP's I'd rather squeeze every bit of quality out of the sensor.


Steve Hendrix
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yaya

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Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12
« Reply #107 on: September 28, 2010, 02:29:35 pm »

Due to high demand we have decided to make the Aptus-II 12 also in Contax mount. Availability is expected in January 2011.

So good news to all the Contax owners out there who wish to use their camera with this very special product.

Yair
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BJL

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Leaf Aptus-II 12 for Contax, not Hy6
« Reply #108 on: September 29, 2010, 11:24:50 am »

Due to high demand we have decided to make the Aptus-II 12 also in Contax mount.
Does this, together with not offering it for the Hy6, indicate that there are substantially more Contax 645's in use that Hy6's, despite the Contax being discontinued far longer ago?
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Jack Flesher

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Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12 for Contax, not Hy6
« Reply #109 on: September 29, 2010, 11:53:24 am »

Does this, together with not offering it for the Hy6, indicate that there are substantially more Contax 645's in use that Hy6's, despite the Contax being discontinued far longer ago?

I suspect the Phase back on a Hy6 won't (ever) happen after Sinar & Rollei went out of their way to cut Phase completely off from the Hy6 body originally. And now that Phase owns Leaf, well...  
« Last Edit: September 29, 2010, 11:59:24 am by Jack Flesher »
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dergiman

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Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12 for Contax, not Hy6
« Reply #110 on: September 29, 2010, 12:04:16 pm »

I suspect the Phase back on a Hy6 won't (ever) happen after Sinar & Rollei went out of their way to cut Phase completely off from the Hy6 body originally. And now that Phase owns Leaf, well...  

Well, Sinar left the Hy6 project and Rollei had never anything to do with the digital back. DHW is not Rollei and the only ones suffering are those that bought the Hy6. So PhaseOne can´t teach anyone a lesson...
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EricWHiss

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Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12 for Contax, not Hy6
« Reply #111 on: September 29, 2010, 12:09:24 pm »

I suspect the Phase back on a Hy6 won't (ever) happen after Sinar & Rollei went out of their way to cut Phase completely off from the Hy6 body originally. And now that Phase owns Leaf, well...  

Jack,
Are you just regurgitating other posts from your own forum or other places without doing any fact checking or do you really know first hand that's how it went?   Just asking because it appears that GetDPI is strongly aligned with Phase through a well known dealer.
Eric
« Last Edit: September 29, 2010, 12:17:49 pm by EricWHiss »
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bcooter

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Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12 for Contax, not Hy6
« Reply #112 on: September 29, 2010, 03:21:47 pm »

I suspect the Phase back on a Hy6 won't (ever) happen after Sinar & Rollei went out of their way to cut Phase completely off from the Hy6 body originally. And now that Phase owns Leaf, well...  

I doubt seriously if a multi national company is trying to punish a camera maker.  

Not to divulge anything in confidence but I was told it's all about money.  The Phase One buy in for the HY6 was large, the takeover of Mamiya was less, so I doubt if the Hy6 makers (whoever they were) tried to lock out anyone and if they did, that makes absolutely no business sense.  I think what the HY6 makers tried to do was get contracts of volume, so they could go forward.

If I'm wrong, show me the e-mail that proves otherwise.

In regards to Leaf, I think you have to realize that Leaf owners view their products as Leaf products, not owned by Creo, Kodak or Phase and for the people that bought into the HY6, if they're left hanging, well I think we all know how they feel.

I don't get the medium format thing of brand/dealer worship and what one brand really has to do with the other.   

I never understood the Phase vs. Hasselblad thing.  Hasselblad has THE camera platform and wanted more digital back sales, so they devised a system where they could sell more digital backs. If you are a Leaf, Phase, Sinar owner with an H system it didn't really change anything, because H series cameras and lenses are everywhere.

One of the refreshing things about owning Contax is I never really worry about them.  Nobody's gonna diss them, lock them out, or put out rumors because they're gone and if they do stop making backs, well I'll just buy a different camera.   

But as far as "open" systems, in my mind none are that open unless they have universal mounts for the backs.  If that was the original process 98% of this medium format conversation would disappear.

Regardless, there are about a dozen things "professional" photographers would like to see from camera makers, (in all formats) but punishment is not on the list. 

IMO

BC
« Last Edit: September 29, 2010, 03:37:14 pm by bcooter »
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tho_mas

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Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12 for Contax, not Hy6
« Reply #113 on: September 29, 2010, 03:59:46 pm »

The Phase One buy in for the HY6 was large, the takeover of Mamiya was less, so I doubt if the Hy6 makers (whoever they were) tried to lock out anyone and if they did, that makes absolutely no business sense.
I think Jack referred to the time when the Hy6 was released... so quite some time before Rollei busted and before P1 bought Leaf (and therefore also the license to produce the AFi). At that time Rollei/Sinar/Leaf had no interest to make the camera available for P1 backs as they wanted to sell their own backs. Don't know if this is true... but that's the legend. At least Sinar was brainless enough to sell the arTec exclusively in Hy6 mount when it came out. So I wouldn't be too surprised if the legend is true (I mean the legend that P1 initially was not allowed to make a back in Hy6 mount).
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EricWHiss

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Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12
« Reply #114 on: September 29, 2010, 05:09:51 pm »

I shoot Rollei and use both phase and ixpress (hasselblad) backs on the 6008 camera platform and have a real interest in what was going on with the Hy6.  I've heard so many different stories from all kinds of people who claimed to know what was going on that I can only conclude that no one really knows including the businesses in question.  It was probably all a big misunderstanding.   ::)     

So let's get those backs fit for the Hy6/AFi  and 6008AF bodies now okay?    Best camera, best optics and best backs sounds like a real win for everyone!
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Gigi

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Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12
« Reply #115 on: September 29, 2010, 06:00:15 pm »

Best guess:

For whatever reason, either Leaf or Sinar (or both?) wanted to keep Phase out. Probably saw the MF market being them, Hassy and Phase, and wanted to protect 1/3 of the market... obviously in hindsight not the best of moves, but so be it. Wouldn't be the first time someone misjudged a sliding market. Remember the detailed post on how Hassy tried about 10 years ago to make a digital MF camera, and just couldn't get the timing and the technology together at the right time? Same thing with Rollei then as well. 

With regard to Phase and the Hy6/AFI, I wouldn't think they would ever convert their back for a moribund system that they never had supplied with a back before. So that's not going anywhere...

Leaf, OTOH, might well touch this one, especially if they want to pick up a little bit of business. Not great sales (at the moment - of course, if the AFI ever went back into production, it might be different, but IMHO that is not too likely). But as it stands now, they know the engineering, they have working interfaces with the camera, they have the exterior cases (if not a supply of carcasses, they certainly built them once and it wouldn't be hard to get more...). Their last versions came with rotating sensors as well (AFI II 7 and 10). So upgrading those backs to an AFI II 12 wouldn't be a hard thing to do at all.

Probably a matter of a pre-sale commitment number (50 as a minimum guess, 250 as a max?).... just thinking out loud. No special knowledge here.  Leaf could also do a "ship it in and we'll upgrade your back" if they were so motivated.

As to ownership of Intellectual property for the Hy6/AFI, I heard a rumor that it ended up with Kodak, when they bought Leaf. Of course, who knows what Phase got when they bought Leaf from Kodak. I dream that the IP rights for the Hy6 are in someone's desk drawer in Rochester, and the next time they do a big cleanout, they'll find their way back to where they came from, stamped "of no further interest to Kodak. Do as you wish....".

OK, its end of the day here. Sorry if this upsets anyone. 
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Geoff

Jack Flesher

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Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12 for Contax, not Hy6
« Reply #116 on: September 30, 2010, 03:34:41 pm »

Jack,
Are you just regurgitating other posts from your own forum or other places without doing any fact checking or do you really know first hand that's how it went?   Just asking because it appears that GetDPI is strongly aligned with Phase through a well known dealer.
Eric


By your tone, it sounds like you have a bone to pick over something that I'm not aware of...  As for GetDPI being 'strongly aligned with *a* well known dealer', it would be far more accurate to say,  "We have strong working relationships with *several* well known dealers across the US, and most of them participate regularly on our site." And you can quote me on that ;)

PS: To make things more clear even though you didn't ask specifically about this, we also have good working relationships with several equipment manufacturers throughout the world.

Cheers,
« Last Edit: September 30, 2010, 03:46:06 pm by Jack Flesher »
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EricWHiss

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Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12 for Contax, not Hy6
« Reply #117 on: September 30, 2010, 04:51:56 pm »

By your tone, it sounds like you have a bone to pick over something that I'm not aware of...  As for GetDPI being 'strongly aligned with *a* well known dealer', it would be far more accurate to say,  "We have strong working relationships with *several* well known dealers across the US, and most of them participate regularly on our site." And you can quote me on that ;)

PS: To make things more clear even though you didn't ask specifically about this, we also have good working relationships with several equipment manufacturers throughout the world.

Cheers,

What I asked was if there was any basis to your comments about Phase/Leaf's decisions WRT the Hy6/AFi.   A lot of people are curious about this and what you posted sound more like conjecture.

« Last Edit: September 30, 2010, 04:55:33 pm by EricWHiss »
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eronald

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Hassy classic was retired, Contax was retired, Hy6 mothballed, Sinar M killed
« Reply #118 on: September 30, 2010, 04:56:37 pm »

Hassy classic was retired, Contax was retired, Hy6 was mothballed, Sinar M killed - do I see a pattern here? If I were a conspiracy theorist I would say that Zeiss lenses are bad for a company's health :)

Edmund
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EricWHiss

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Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12
« Reply #119 on: September 30, 2010, 07:55:34 pm »

Yair,
Help us all get back on topic and post some more samples from the new back!
Thanks,
Eric
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