Schneider TS lenses

[dirkpieters]

The Hasselblad is very obviously superior,
even with a lowly P25
even well out of the 1:1 comfort zone of the lens (or you cropped)

I am thinking about doing some jewelery photography,
with an H4D-60 and a
Sinar P3 and
Zeiss Luminar Macro lenses and
a Sinar eShutter and
auto bracket focusing...

¿What do you call "good enough"?

Hey Dick!
The 2 ring shots were 100% so they were both cropped.I shot them both at about the same size in the frame which was a bit tricky so its not totally scientfic.

Here are 2 pics the close ups of earings f22 and the bangle with charm at f16.If I can shoot at f16 I am usually ok but if I need DOF then I have a problem and then its not good enough.My client doesn't really need higher resolution but it offends my  desire for perfection to know that it could be sharper.
I have shot jewelery with a LF and MF system and I find that I can't get into small spaces between the softbox and the reflectors and also you mostly see the camera in the convex surfaces so a small camera helps.I have even being considering the micro 4/3 system with the Leitz macro but when I saw this Schneider 90mm lens I knew that it was the answer.
Are you putting a H4D back onto a Sinar P body? Nice! I would love to see results on small apertures.I have seen some unbelievable close-ups from that lens.

[Dick Roadnight]

It seems that you are getting a great deal of diffraction @ f22.

I intend to avoid small apertures by using DOF merge, which (with auto step focusing) might cost a grand, but if I am going to specializing quality macro, it should be worth it.

[Chris_Brown]

Its like that with women too.The better the car the more interest they show.

 

[geesbert]

MFDB is great to make your clients think that you're good;"you must be good if you can afford the big expensive camera,Its always been like that.

definitely not my experience, they literally don't give a shit about what camera you use, and nearly everybody can't tell a difference between a MF and a large Canon. and they don't care.


anyway, I went to photokina and looked at those lenses.
I have mixed feeling about them.
- they are huge! I'd say impossible to use handheld, which I do quite often with the TSEs.
- at f4 the viewfinder gets quite dark and it is difficult to see the tilt or shift effect. much easier at f2.8, although I hardly ever use that for shooting.
- Aperture is preselect only, no automatic diaphragm, again not good for handheld
- all movements are set by very large rings, and there are a lot of them:
two rings for aperture
one focus ring
one shift ring (which only goes in one direction, which means you have to rotate the whole thing to gor 180° )
one ring to rotate the shift
one tilt ring (again only one direction)
one ring to rotate the tilt mechanism
- the tripod mount is quite flimsy, but they said this will be revised.
- the lens is unchipped, so no focus confirmation yet
- the build quality seems great, I'd say worth the price
- close focus for the 90 is closer than 60cm, I'd say between 50 and 55.


They still have to do their homework, I will look into these lenses once they are out in early 2011. by then I expect the 90mm tse to have a successor, probably introduced at PMA with the new 1ds Mk4

[Huib]

I am very satisfied about the Canon TSE 17 and the new TSE24mm.
Hopefully Canon will come soon with a replacement of the TSE45

[dirkpieters]

definitely not my experience, they literally don't give a shit about what camera you use, and nearly everybody can't tell a difference between a MF and a large Canon. and they don't care.

Yes you're right actually, as long as you have a sense of humor and know how to use it,they don't really care about the size of your equipment.

[Chris_Brown]

anyway, I went to photokina and looked at those lenses.

Thanks for the report, Stephan. Mechanically, they don't sound like an improvement worth twice the price of a Canon TS-E. Optically, it may be another story.

My hope is that the improvements that came to the 24mm TS-E (and were integrated into the 17mm), will come to the 45mm & 90mm TS-E.

[jgbowerman]

Thought I'd dig up this old thread and see if anyone has tried one of these Schneider lenses, I can't find much of anything on them but noticed an advertisement in one of my photog magazines last night and it got my curiosity going.

My bread and butter lens: http://www.nikonusa.com/Nikon-Products/Product/Camera-Lenses/2174/PC-E-Micro-NIKKOR-45mm-f%252F2.8D-ED.html

If I ever make some serious bread and butter, I've though about getting one of these: http://www.hartblei.com/lenses/lens_80mm.htm

Anyone using a Schneider dslr TS lens these days?

[JeffKohn]

I too have seen some recent magazine ads for these. Apparently they're just starting to ship. B&H doesn't list them, but 17th Street Photo does. The 50mm is for pre-order, they claim to have the 90mm in stock. At those prices, I'm going to want to see some reviews from reputable sources first. Hopefully Lloyd Chambers will get some for review.

[jgbowerman]

Thanks Jeff, interesting how 17th Street shows the 90mm in stock, but still no information is available under specifications. I imagine Lloyd Chambers will be checking these out before too much longer, it will be worth keeping an eye on them in the meantime. Not sure I can justify the expense over Nikons TS/PC lenses (nor Canon's lineup for that matter) which have excellent optics and good weather seals, too. But I guess I'll have to leave that assessment to the likes of Mr. Chambers. He gives very positive reviews for the HARTBLEI lineup, but they are near impossible to find in stock as well. I've seen the price for the Hartblei TS 80mm with a Nikon mount at $850, new, on eBay.

Any feedback on the Hartblei lineup is likewise appreciated.

[nazdravanul]

The Hartblei - the new Zeiss Superrotator versions - are amazing. They are in a whole different league compared to Nikon and Canon ts-pc versions , both in terms of mechanical quality - precision, and in terms of optical qualities : resolution, rendering style, bokeh stopped down (12 blades) are simply amazing - both on my 40 and 80 Hartblei Zeiss Superrotators. They are definitely on top of the current Zeiss ZF/ZE lineup  (at least from 5.6 onwards )  - 21, 35, 50 MP and 100 MP included ) ) . I've used all of them extensively on my D3x.  They are the best studio lenses you could think of, for 35mm DSLR . And you can definitely use - at least the 80 - handheld (and yes, that 80, from f4 onwards, will put to shame your 85 L or 85 G lens ) ) .

[jgbowerman]

The Hartblei - the new Zeiss Superrotator versions - are amazing. They are in a whole different league compared to Nikon and Canon ts-pc versions , both in terms of mechanical quality - precision, and in terms of optical qualities : resolution, rendering style, bokeh stopped down (12 blades) are simply amazing - both on my 40 and 80 Hartblei Zeiss Superrotators. They are definitely on top of the current Zeiss ZF/ZE lineup  (at least from 5.6 onwards )  - 21, 35, 50 MP and 100 MP included ) ) . I've used all of them extensively on my D3x.  They are the best studio lenses you could think of, for 35mm DSLR . And you can definitely use - at least the 80 - handheld (and yes, that 80, from f4 onwards, will put to shame your 85 L or 85 G lens ) ) .

Sounds very nice. I can't find the 40 Harblei Zeiss Superrotator anywhere. Any ideas where one can be had?

[nazdravanul]

A really nice set of Hartblei Zeiss Superrotators (40 + 80 + a lot of accessories) , from a really good friend of mine, just showed up on ebay. In case anyone is still interested it's totally worth looking at - when I bought mine, I had to buy them new, from Hartblei, as they are very very hard to find used.

http://shop.ebay.co.uk/phtbff09/m.html?_trksid=p4340.l2562

[JeffKohn]

Any feedback on the Hartblei lineup is likewise appreciated.

I actually read Lloyd's reviews on the Hartblei Zeiss lenses and came to the conclusion they weren't for me. I don't have a subscription to his site at the moment so I can go back and look for specific reasons, but I seem to recall he was mostly enamored with the bokeh, which wasn't of interest for me. I was most interested in the 40mm, and based on his review I came to the conclusion that with regards to sharpness and distortion it just wasn't enough of an upgrade from my Nikkor PC-E to justify the price. I also didn't like the fact that the shift only works in one direction, requiring rotation to shift in the opposite direction for stitching (and if you use the lens tripod foot, that means rotating your camera upside down).

I would watch out for prices on the Hartblei lenses that seem too good be to be true, there's a good chance you could end up with the old non-Zeiss glass (which wasn't very good at all). The Hartblei-Zeiss three-lens set goes for something like $10K new, so the chances of legitimately picking up one of those lenses for under $1K is unlikely.

The new Schneider lenses also have the one-way shift limitation, which is disappointing. But I'm interested in these lenses due to the huge image circle (considerably larger than most 35-format tilt/shift lenses), since it should mean that sharpness and distortion hold up well even at maximum shift/tilt.

[nazdravanul]

I actually read Lloyd's reviews on the Hartblei Zeiss lenses and came to the conclusion they weren't for me. I don't have a subscription to his site at the moment so I can go back and look for specific reasons, but I seem to recall he was mostly enamored with the bokeh, which wasn't of interest for me. I was most interested in the 40mm, and based on his review I came to the conclusion that with regards to sharpness and distortion it just wasn't enough of an upgrade from my Nikkor PC-E to justify the price. I also didn't like the fact that the shift only works in one direction, requiring rotation to shift in the opposite direction for stitching (and if you use the lens tripod foot, that means rotating your camera upside down).

I would watch out for prices on the Hartblei lenses that seem too good be to be true, there's a good chance you could end up with the old non-Zeiss glass (which wasn't very good at all). The Hartblei-Zeiss three-lens set goes for something like $10K new, so the chances of legitimately picking up one of those lenses for under $1K is unlikely.

The new Schneider lenses also have the one-way shift limitation, which is disappointing. But I'm interested in these lenses due to the huge image circle (considerably larger than most 35-format tilt/shift lenses), since it should mean that sharpness and distortion hold up well even at maximum shift/tilt.

As far as Lloyd's article on the Hartbleis his main gripe with the lenses was that they needed a tripod, most of the time (not his personal style of work). And they were expensive.  Aside bokeh and colors, which he was in love with, in terms of sharpness, he calls the lenses outstanding (rare thing coming from Lloyd ), stopped down a little bit.  He recommends the 80 (the "weakest" of the bunch ) for portrait work, saying that neither Canon nor Nikon have nothing that can touch it.
Aside the correctable / small distortion on the 40, it is an amazing lens. Resolution / sharpness (a bit stopped down from 5.6 up for side areas with shift) , microcontrast, shadows/ highlits details, overall rendition is comparable  only to the best of European / supertele lenses ; with the same incredible colors and bokeh (stopped down - 12 blades) . Sorry, from my point of view,  in another league from the Canikon ts-PC lenses (which I have owned, used, tested in the past, extensively).  For my kind of work (complicated composits), it also has a minimal amount of focus breathing (also useful in video), which is quite hard to find these days.
The unidirectional shift may seem a bit strange at first, but once you start working with it, it's really manageable. The reason for it is superior mechanical precision / durability, one of the things Lloyds himself appreciates in the Hartbleis, and dislikes particularly in regards to the Nikon pc-e lenses (significantly less than perfect alignments for stiching shifted shots, for example) . Lloyd even calls the Hartbleis dream lenses for the technical / studio shooter, for those who want that "medium format look" in 35mm , on a budget.  And I have to agree with him, as I can do simple 40-50 MP stiched shots (including people, foreground objects etc. )  on my D3x with those lenses that will kick  serious Hasselblad butt ...

[nazdravanul]

Jgbowerman, what is the purpose of the above quote with no reply  ? Just curious, that's all ...

[jgbowerman]

Jgbowerman, what is the purpose of the above quote with no reply  ? Just curious, that's all ...

Sorry about that! My effort to quote was initiated prior to logging in and apparently got corrupted, or I suppose an error due to my digital incompetence! Oh well, I can do better and I'll redo it.

[jgbowerman]

I actually read Lloyd's reviews on the Hartblei Zeiss lenses and came to the conclusion they weren't for me. I don't have a subscription to his site at the moment so I can go back and look for specific reasons, but I seem to recall he was mostly enamored with the bokeh, which wasn't of interest for me. I was most interested in the 40mm, and based on his review I came to the conclusion that with regards to sharpness and distortion it just wasn't enough of an upgrade from my Nikkor PC-E to justify the price. I also didn't like the fact that the shift only works in one direction, requiring rotation to shift in the opposite direction for stitching (and if you use the lens tripod foot, that means rotating your camera upside down).

I would watch out for prices on the Hartblei lenses that seem too good be to be true, there's a good chance you could end up with the old non-Zeiss glass (which wasn't very good at all). The Hartblei-Zeiss three-lens set goes for something like $10K new, so the chances of legitimately picking up one of those lenses for under $1K is unlikely.

The new Schneider lenses also have the one-way shift limitation, which is disappointing. But I'm interested in these lenses due to the huge image circle (considerably larger than most 35-format tilt/shift lenses), since it should mean that sharpness and distortion hold up well even at maximum shift/tilt.

Thanks, Jeff. Lloyd is especially into bokeh and not necessarily a big fan of obtaining sharpness throughout the field of view... not at all my style when it comes to landscapes. The Hartblei-Zeiss glass appears to be difficult if not impossible to find and at 10K, it comes at a price I cannot justify over Nikon's 45mm PC/TS lens... an outstanding lens and my favorite for landscapes.

[JeffKohn]

Just to be clear the 10K price was for all 3 Hartblei Zeiss lenses, although I think that may have been Euros not US$. That was actually considered a "bundle" price with savings over buying the individual lenses; but Hartblei no longer has the price list on their website, so I'm not sure if that info is still current and I don't know where you could get current pricing or dealer availability. Still, the Hartblei 40mm probably sells for more than twice the Nikkor PC-E; and even if it is somewhat better  than the Nikkor, Lloyd's comments about distortion, astigmatism and field curvature lead me to believe it might not be good enough to justify its price tag for my uses. From Llloyd's comments the 120mm seems to be the real standout of the three, but that's not really a focal length I'm interested in.

[nazdravanul]

Just to be clear the 10K price was for all 3 Hartblei Zeiss lenses, although I think that may have been Euros not US$. That was actually considered a "bundle" price with savings over buying the individual lenses; but Hartblei no longer has the price list on their website, so I'm not sure if that info is still current and I don't know where you could get current pricing or dealer availability. Still, the Hartblei 40mm probably sells for more than twice the Nikkor PC-E; and even if it is somewhat better  than the Nikkor, Lloyd's comments about distortion, astigmatism and field curvature lead me to believe it might not be good enough to justify its price tag for my uses. From Llloyd's comments the 120mm seems to be the real standout of the three, but that's not really a focal length I'm interested in.

Well if you compare Lloyd's comments on the 40 Hartblei and the 45 pc-e (and Hartbleis vs pc-es in general) (no direct comparison, just read the individual articles and compare) the Hartblei is, even in his view,  more than just "somewhat" better ... ). Sorry guys, but my 1st hand experience with the aforementioned lenses, still makes the Hartblei soooo much better ) (for me at least, for all the reasons already mentioned)