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Author Topic: Perfect service from Sinar in Zurich  (Read 18631 times)

baudolino

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Perfect service from Sinar in Zurich
« on: May 11, 2010, 03:45:56 pm »

I recently had an experience with the Hy6 kit and Sinar in Switzerland that might be of interest. It provides an example of how smaller European companies do business - I am told this is significantly different than the larger corporate entities in the United States.

A bit of background - I bought an ex-demo Sinar Hy6 kit with 3 lenses from a dealer here in Prague, to complement my eMotion 75LV back that I had used previously with my Contax. However, I had a problem with the Hy6 body (damaged contact in the bayonet). I talked to my dealer who offered to have the camera shipped to Zurich for repair.

Given that this would have taken some time (involving customs etc) I was happy to make the 1 hour flight to Zurich myself, with the camera and the lenses, if Sinar were ready to fix the camera on the same day. Sinar responded through my dealer that yes, they were happy to fix my camera "while I waited" and, at the same time, upgrade the firmware to version 3.10. Now, the upgrade to version 3.10 involves not just a new software download but also some mechanical adjustments to the camera's AF system (this is why you can't do it yourself). When I arrived in Zurich, the Sinar sales rep (Helga Frorath) awaited me at the airport and took me to the factory in her car. I handed the camera over to a service technician who quickly identified the problem with the bayonet (one of the pins remained recessed after I mounted the lens) - he fixed this, upgraded the firmware, calibrated the AF system with all three of my lenses on an optical bench and printed a little certificate with suggested focus micro-adjustment values for each lens (the focus micro adjustment is available in the camera menu if you have version firmware 3.10). The technician also tightened the grip and cleaned the camera. This was all done while Ms. Frorath took me to lunch and showed me around the factory. I hopped on a plane back to Prague in late afternoon. All in all, a perfect service from the dealer and from Sinar, I was impressed.
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fredjeang

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Perfect service from Sinar in Zurich
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2010, 04:05:58 pm »

Quote from: baudolino
I recently had an experience with the Hy6 kit and Sinar in Switzerland that might be of interest. It provides an example of how smaller European companies do business - I am told this is significantly different than the larger corporate entities in the United States.

A bit of background - I bought an ex-demo Sinar Hy6 kit with 3 lenses from a dealer here in Prague, to complement my eMotion 75LV back that I had used previously with my Contax. However, I had a problem with the Hy6 body (damaged contact in the bayonet). I talked to my dealer who offered to have the camera shipped to Zurich for repair.

Given that this would have taken some time (involving customs etc) I was happy to make the 1 hour flight to Zurich myself, with the camera and the lenses, if Sinar were ready to fix the camera on the same day. Sinar responded through my dealer that yes, they were happy to fix my camera "while I waited" and, at the same time, upgrade the firmware to version 3.10. Now, the upgrade to version 3.10 involves not just a new software download but also some mechanical adjustments to the camera's AF system (this is why you can't do it yourself). When I arrived in Zurich, the Sinar sales rep (Helga Frorath) awaited me at the airport and took me to the factory in her car. I handed the camera over to a service technician who quickly identified the problem with the bayonet (one of the pins remained recessed after I mounted the lens) - he fixed this, upgraded the firmware, calibrated the AF system with all three of my lenses on an optical bench and printed a little certificate with suggested focus micro-adjustment values for each lens (the focus micro adjustment is available in the camera menu if you have version firmware 3.10). The technician also tightened the grip and cleaned the camera. This was all done while Ms. Frorath took me to lunch and showed me around the factory. I hopped on a plane back to Prague in late afternoon. All in all, a perfect service from the dealer and from Sinar, I was impressed.

I am too!
Well, got the Contax, just saving for the back now. Nothing decided so far. I had the chance 2 months ago to get some Sinar files and was very pleased by what I saw.
In terms of "style" (here my english fails and do not know how to explain) they are what I like most.
Indeed, Sinar is worth of consideration, and even more after your post.

Cheers.
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Prakash Patel

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« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2010, 10:14:51 pm »

I have also had that sort of an experience here in the US with my dealer Jack Strobel/Calumet and the US Distributor Bron Imaging.

Greg King and his team @ Bron Imaging (Colin King,Dave McRitchie & Salomon) have taken care of a  recent warranty issue in a very professional manner.

I was a little concerned about the state of service and warranty issues since the US distributor Sinar Bron had changed to Bron Imaging.

Happy to report the same  great and professional service that I have received for the past 2.5 years using the eMotion 75 LV's

Gigi

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« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2010, 11:48:25 pm »

rather impressive, to say the least.
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Geoff

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« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2010, 04:19:32 am »

I'm really happy reading the multitude of Sinar praising mails. Unfortunatelly I can't join you. I have a Mamiya 645AFDII with a 54LV back which is fine -- if working. The back had some problems and the main issue was that the camera lost the back after some exposures (between 5 and 45, randomly) and the only remedy was to reboot the DB (takes about 15 seconds!). The issue was repeated on other AFDII-s so I sent the DB back to Sinar. The DB spent 3 months with Sinar, they fixed all the problems except the main one. The camera still looses the DB after some exposures. In the meantime I had very scarce information on the repair process, the Hungarian Sinar rep pushed them time and again with not too much success. Providing a replacement unit for the repair time didn't even occured. I'm a great Sinar fan (see my nickname :-) but this comes from large format cameras. They're perfect and undestroyeable.

Best regards
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MartinWidmann

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« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2010, 05:08:15 am »

Quote from: sinar444
I'm really happy reading the multitude of Sinar praising mails. Unfortunatelly I can't join you. I have a Mamiya 645AFDII with a 54LV back which is fine -- if working. The back had some problems and the main issue was that the camera lost the back after some exposures (between 5 and 45, randomly) and the only remedy was to reboot the DB (takes about 15 seconds!). The issue was repeated on other AFDII-s so I sent the DB back to Sinar. The DB spent 3 months with Sinar, they fixed all the problems except the main one. The camera still looses the DB after some exposures. In the meantime I had very scarce information on the repair process, the Hungarian Sinar rep pushed them time and again with not too much success. Providing a replacement unit for the repair time didn't even occured. I'm a great Sinar fan (see my nickname :-) but this comes from large format cameras. They're perfect and undestroyeable.

Best regards
I am sorry for your problems and the huge delays. This is not supposed to be the standard duration for processing customer problems. I talked to the Sinar Support and they told me that you will be contacted soon by your Sinar rep to find a satisfying solution.

Martin
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Martin Widmann
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shutay

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« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2010, 11:47:55 pm »

baudolino, that's impressive and good news. Are there any impressions and/or comments that you can relate from your factory visit?
« Last Edit: May 12, 2010, 11:48:59 pm by shutay »
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Lacunapratum

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« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2010, 12:18:25 am »

Another vote for Sinar in Zurich and Salomon in New York.  Immaculate Hy6 service.  You can still feel confident buying this camera.  They really stand behind their products and services.

If Sinar would have distributed Rollei world wide starting with the SLX/6000 series, Rollei wouldn't have had to go under.  This is the type of service that inspires brand loyalty.  

I certainly recommend Sinar service for anybody looking for a new investment.
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baudolino

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« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2010, 02:42:54 pm »

Quote from: shutay
baudolino, that's impressive and good news. Are there any impressions and/or comments that you can relate from your factory visit?

Hi,

You asked about my impressions from the factory visit:

(1) They are trying to do a lot with just about 30 people which is what I understand is the entire team following the buyout from Jenoptik and last year's restructuring. This has significantly reduced their cost base and allowed them to operate efficiently but they also may be a little resource-constrained right now to make any major steps in any area (just my impression).

(2) They are selling from existing stock (as far as Hy6 and the digibacks are concerned) and actually had encouraging sales for the past 6 months or so, which has allowed them to stabilize the business.

(3) Even though they are a "system integrator" rather than a manufacturer as far as Hy6 and the digibacks are concerned, I've had no problems ordering extra batteries and lenshoods (both arrived through my dealer last week, about 3-4 weeks from when I placed the order). My dealer has also steadfastly maintained that there are no problems ordering anything. Having said that, not everything is in stock all the time (e.g. the remote releases currently seem to be unavailable).

By the way, if you want a better battery charger than what comes with the Sinar digibacks and the Hy6, order this:
http://www.hahnel.ie/contentFiles/products...A4-09-04-10.pdf

The version for "Sony digital cameras" includes an adapter plate that charges the Varta/Sinar/Pisen batteries - it is much smaller (no large heavy transformer), way cheaper and much faster charging than the contraption that Sinar packs with the backs and the Hy6. This is my discovery, after a lot of research :-)

(4) I specifically asked about the 6x6 film back and the info that Pascal has mentioned on his website (that it is being planned for production by DHW Fototechnik and should perhaps be introduced later this year at Photokina), well the Sinar guys were not so sure.... which would be pity since I would be queing to buy one..

(5) There may be an effort under way to develop a new raw conversion software (perhaps Captureshop that saves DNGs). I am not  sure that I understood 100% so do take this info with a pinch of salt. I understood that eXposure was a Jenoptik product whereas Captureshop was an original Sinar product, this is why they had to run both s/w suites in parallel when Jenoptik was making the backs. A lot of the software effort has however recently been spent on fixing bugs introduced by Apple in subsequent releases of the OS (or the hardware? I recall something about the firewire port....). I was also told that an older, unsupported but fully functional version of eXposure for Windows could be obtained from Sinar (I don't need it, so did not follow up).

Side note (forgive me if I ramble too much...): I understood they had tried to involve Stefan Hess (the author of the Brumbaer utilities) in developing the software but he was not interested in doing this commercially. I suggested they talk to the gentleman behind Iridient Raw Developer and try to build on his pretty robust program that already reads the Sinar eMotion raw files (and also DNGs..). Not only that, the Raw Developer of course converts all sorts of other existing raw formats - if I look at what Hasselblad is now doing with Phocus (adding support for other pro camera raw files so that you can stay in one editing environment when you shoot with different cameras - just like you can when you shoot with a PhaseOne back and edit in C1), it would seem logical to me for Sinar to stop developing their own software from the scratch but rather team up with one of the established but second-tier players who are gradually getting sidelined due to the recent advances in Lightroom, Aperture and C1. Maybe RawDev, maybe Bibble - this is the way I would go to quickly get on par with what the competition offers in terms of workflow. Because, in my view, the Sinar hardware is excellent, the files are beautiful, just the software is not so great (which is maybe because I haven't spent enough time with eXposure for it to become my friend, as on of the members here pointed out :-))-


(6) They seem to be working on new products but of course I could not get more info... :-) but it sounded encouraging and contrary to my earlier impression that the system was a dead end (which I had of course gained by reading too much on the internet :-) ).


Regards,

Martin
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Mitchell Baum

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« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2010, 04:31:42 pm »

Does anyone know where I can get plus diopters for the Hy6, both WLF and 45 degree?

Two dealers have tried for me with no avail. I'm essentially shooting blind, using autofocus and hoping for the best.

Best,

Mitchell
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shutay

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« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2010, 09:54:00 pm »

Quote from: baudolino
Hi,

You asked about my impressions from the factory visit:

---- 8< snipped! ----

Thanks for the account and writeup, baudolino!

Jason
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rolleiflexpages

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« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2010, 01:16:13 pm »

Quote from: Mitchell Baum
Does anyone know where I can get plus diopters for the Hy6, both WLF and 45 degree?

Two dealers have tried for me with no avail. I'm essentially shooting blind, using autofocus and hoping for the best.

Best,

Mitchell

Hi Mitchell, suggest you try direct with DHW Fototechnik in Braunschweig and contact Reiner Schönrock. See contact details on my web pages if you do not have them.

Pascal
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rolleiflexpages

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« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2010, 01:20:49 pm »

Quote from: baudolino
I recently had an experience with the Hy6 kit and Sinar in Switzerland that might be of interest. It provides an example of how smaller European companies do business - I am told this is significantly different than the larger corporate entities in the United States.

Very impressive and excellent customer service indeed. Sinar should be applauded for this, as it is regrettably rather exceptional these days. I am happy to hear confirmation that they do stand fully behind their product. Actually, I would have choosen the Sinar eSprit 65 over the Leaf AFi-II 7 if only it had at least the same sensor size (and thus less lens crop) as the Leaf. That, and the fact that the camera/back cannot be switched on via the camera only, made me finally opt for the Leaf. But in terms of support, at least Sinar actively pursues the Hy6 line of business, which is why I would have wished to be able to go that route.
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MartinWidmann

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« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2010, 01:51:45 pm »

Quote from: rolleiflexpages
Very impressive and excellent customer service indeed. Sinar should be applauded for this, as it is regrettably rather exceptional these days. I am happy to hear confirmation that they do stand fully behind their product. Actually, I would have choosen the Sinar eSprit 65 over the Leaf AFi-II 7 if only it had at least the same sensor size (and thus less lens crop) as the Leaf. That, and the fact that the camera/back cannot be switched on via the camera only, made me finally opt for the Leaf. But in terms of support, at least Sinar actively pursues the Hy6 line of business, which is why I would have wished to be able to go that route.
The Leaf AFi-II 7 is a nice camera and back. Congratulation to your choice. But I'd like to correct the fact that it is indeed possible to switch on the whole camera / back combination when using the eSprit 65 with a Hy6. It works in the same way as with the AFi. You switch on the camera, the back switches on at the same time. You switch off the Hy6, the back switches off as well.

Martin
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Martin Widmann
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philipmccormick

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« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2010, 04:14:55 pm »

Quote from: rolleiflexpages
But in terms of support, at least Sinar actively pursues the Hy6 line of business, which is why I would have wished to be able to go that route.

Pascal,
Leaf Imaging announced that from 10 May 2010 they were supporting all current and legacy leaf backs, and the Afi, those both in and out of warranty. Nothing so far about further development of the Afi system, however.

Philip
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Philip

rolleiflexpages

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« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2010, 04:29:11 pm »

Quote from: philipmccormick
Pascal,
Leaf Imaging announced that from 10 May 2010 they were supporting all current and legacy leaf backs, and the Afi, those both in and out of warranty. Nothing so far about further development of the Afi system, however.

Philip

Hi Philip, yes I am fully aware of that announcement and it is good news as it clarifies things somewhat in terms of service and support. What I meant, however, was future development, and full commitment, of the Hy6 system.
Pascal
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rolleiflexpages

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« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2010, 04:33:40 pm »

Quote from: MartinWidmann
The Leaf AFi-II 7 is a nice camera and back. Congratulation to your choice. But I'd like to correct the fact that it is indeed possible to switch on the whole camera / back combination when using the eSprit 65 with a Hy6. It works in the same way as with the AFi. You switch on the camera, the back switches on at the same time. You switch off the Hy6, the back switches off as well.

Martin

Hello Martin, I am really surprised now as this was a very specific question I had asked to the Sinar importer in Austria (MSM in Salzburg). The reply was that the back only switched on automatically when pressing the camera release button on condition that the camera's main switch is already turned on (stand-by mode). Otherwise, it was specifically said that both the camera body and the back needed to be switched on (in contrast to the Leaf AFi). I am very sorry to hear that I was misinformed as that would have taken away a major issue when considering the Sinar eSprit back.
Pascal
« Last Edit: May 14, 2010, 04:43:07 pm by rolleiflexpages »
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MartinWidmann

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« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2010, 11:54:52 pm »

Quote from: rolleiflexpages
Hello Martin, I am really surprised now as this was a very specific question I had asked to the Sinar importer in Austria (MSM in Salzburg). The reply was that the back only switched on automatically when pressing the camera release button on condition that the camera's main switch is already turned on (stand-by mode). Otherwise, it was specifically said that both the camera body and the back needed to be switched on (in contrast to the Leaf AFi). I am very sorry to hear that I was misinformed as that would have taken away a major issue when considering the Sinar eSprit back.
Pascal
Important edit: The statement below is only valid for a Hy6 65, please see this post http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....st&p=366364
 
The MSM description is not wrong. The Hy6 / AFi don't switch immediately on if you move the power switch from OFF to ON. You first need to press the release button half way. Thus the camera turns on. An attached back, either a Leaf Aptus or a Sinar eSprit will be turned on automatically by the camera.

Martin
« Last Edit: May 17, 2010, 03:52:39 am by MartinWidmann »
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Martin Widmann
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rolleiflexpages

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« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2010, 04:03:06 am »

Quote from: MartinWidmann
The MSM description is not wrong. The Hy6 / AFi don't switch immediately on if you move the power switch from OFF to ON. You first need to press the release button half way. Thus the camera turns on. An attached back, either a Leaf Aptus or a Sinar eSprit will be turned on automatically by the camera.

Martin

Dear Martin,
thank you for the further clarification. So, I understand that there is really no difference between Sinar eSprit and Leaf AFi backs in this respect? (Strange, because I had also heard from other users that the eSprit was less integrated than the AFi). If so, I regret that this was not told to me clearly beforehand.
Pascal
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rolleiflexpages

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« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2010, 04:09:32 am »

Quote from: MartinWidmann
The MSM description is not wrong. The Hy6 / AFi don't switch immediately on if you move the power switch from OFF to ON. You first need to press the release button half way. Thus the camera turns on. An attached back, either a Leaf Aptus or a Sinar eSprit will be turned on automatically by the camera.

Martin

For further information, let me quote from MSM (in German), which is what mislead me:

" Technische Verwendung: Der Back wird immer extra eingeschaltet. Sowohl im Back wie auch in der Kamera ist ein Akku.
Dadurch, dass der Sinarback an vielen Kameras mittels Adapterplatte angedockt wird, ist nur eine Lösung mit eigener Stromversorgung möglich.
Beim eSpritback ergibt sich ungefähr eine Verlängerung um den Faktor 1,4. "
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