For those of you that print big on IGFS or Harman FB AL how do keep it flat after printing?

[Bill Koenig]

After reading fike's last post about scratches on IGFS of Harman FB AL got me thinking about the problems I'm having with it, and yes, scratches are problem.
I print on a 3800, when printing on these papers 13x19 and 17x25 they won't sit flat when framed. The problem isn't that bad at 13x19, but at 17x25 they get this waviness that won't go away.
I had the frame shop try to dry mount to foam core, that changed the look of the surface, not good. I tried 3M 568 PMA what a PITA, and don't forget how easy it is to scratch.
For those of you that print BIG, how do you deal with this?
I've gone back to RC papers for anything over 13x19, I tried Red Rive Polar Arctic Satin, I like the surface of this paper, and at 17x25 it sits flat, the blacks are good, but not as good as fiber based papers.

[shewhorn]

After reading fike's last post about scratches on IGFS of Harman FB AL got me thinking about the problems I'm having with it, and yes, scratches are problem.
I print on a 3800, when printing on these papers 13x19 and 17x25 they won't sit flat when framed. The problem isn't that bad at 13x19, but at 17x25 they get this waviness that won't go away.
I had the frame shop try to dry mount to foam core, that changed the look of the surface, not good. I tried 3M 568 PMA what a PITA, and don't forget how easy it is to scratch.
For those of you that print BIG, how do you deal with this?
I've gone back to RC papers for anything over 13x19, I tried Red Rive Polar Arctic Satin, I like the surface of this paper, and at 17x25 it sits flat, the blacks are good, but not as good as fiber based papers.

At 17"x25" I think it's going to be really hard to get that print to lay perfectly flat over time unless it's dry mounted. Did the framer you took it to have experience with dry mounting inkjet prints before? If the paper is resin coated and the press is heat mount, the heat from the press can potentially melt the resin if they're using the wrong type of adhesive. Bienfang's RagMount was specifically developed for mounting inkjet prints as it activates at a lower temperature than ColorMount or other adhesives.

Cheers, Joe

[Bill Koenig]

At 17"x25" I think it's going to be really hard to get that print to lay perfectly flat over time unless it's dry mounted. Did the framer you took it to have experience with dry mounting inkjet prints before? If the paper is resin coated and the press is heat mount, the heat from the press can potentially melt the resin if they're using the wrong type of adhesive. Bienfang's RagMount was specifically developed for mounting inkjet prints as it activates at a lower temperature than ColorMount or other adhesives.

Cheers, Joe

Hi Joe,

She has a dry mount press that can be set from 0 to 500 degrees in 1 degree increments, its all digital. Shes been in the framing business for 15 years.
I do my own framing, but I buy glass from her, and if I need a mat broad quick, she will order one for me. The place I order from wants a 12 piece minimum order on mat boards.  
She didn't charge me for this test as I supplied the acid free foam core 3/16 thick.
The Harman is fiber a based paper, no RC here that I know of. She did say that shes never had good results with inkjet prints, but as you say, they are for the most part, RC papers.
I gave her a scrap (scratched) sample 17x25 print of Harman FB AL, she supplied the mount tissue, I don't know what brand she used . She cut the print in two, first one at 170 F  for 3min the other at 170 F at 4 min.
The bond was fine on each, the foam core was some what compressed around the edges, but the surface texture of the print changed, and it didn't look good, this might have something to do with the foam core. I wonder if something like Gator board would have been better, as the foam core just didn't seem up to the task.
Anyway for now, I just gave up on the fiber based papers, not to mention all of the scratching problems. But I still wonder how others are dealing with these issues as these papers are quite popular, it must be working for someone.
I'm sure it would help if I had 2" broader on all sides, all I have now is 1/2" It would be nice to have 24 inch printer like Epson 7900

[shewhorn]

Do you know if the press she's using is mechanical or vacuum? If vacuum I'm wondering if she could experiment with dialing down the vacuum pressure a little bit?

Cheers, Joe

[David Sutton]

Hi Bill. I'm mainly using Harman gloss and IGFS. The IGFS is fairly well behaved- I print up to 17 x 48" on the Epson 3800 using the long print driver and cutting the paper from a roll. The Harman curls like hell. I haven't a lot of experience mounting them myself, but the ones I have done have been mounted on thick foam core using "3M Spray Mount Repositionable Adhesive" and it holds them flat and after a few years they still look good. Note that with the Harman I have to press the paper to the backing overnight or it comes away, as this adhesive is not that strong. What I'm suggesting I guess to to experiment with different backing materials or try several framers until you find something that works. It's not strictly archival but I'd rather see a print flat for 40 years than wavy for a 100. Sorry can't be more helpful.