Upgrading printer....Epson or HP 44"

[tived]

Hi Guys,

we are getting a bit tired of having this red bias with this printer, HP Z3100. The Question is, do we get the HP Z3200 or do we go for the Epson 9xx0?

what is the best printer today or in the near future?

I would appreciate some feedback

Thanks very much

Henrik

PS: I am in Australia

[neil snape]

Hi Guys,

we are getting a bit tired of having this red bias with this printer, HP Z3100. The Question is, do we get the HP Z3200 or do we go for the Epson 9xx0?

what is the best printer today or in the near future?

I would appreciate some feedback

Thanks very much

Henrik

PS: I am in Australia

I have the Z3200 here and a 9900 at the school where I teach.

I don't know why but if you look at the profile for Epson Tradition it whomps all other printers. Yet on most other papers the Z3200 has a slight advantage. Yet the HP inks don't work that well on all papers where as Epson work on pretty much anything.

Problem is HP have discontinued many of their photo and FA papers for these printers , hence there will be a big gap in IQ due to their incompatible inks on some third party papers.


Unless HP have something up their sleeve, Epson has continued to respect it's history of having the highest IQ, and added innovation with the 900 series proving and deserving it's market leadership.

[Ryan Grayley]

Hi Guys,

we are getting a bit tired of having this red bias with this printer, HP Z3100. The Question is, do we get the HP Z3200 or do we go for the Epson 9xx0?

what is the best printer today or in the near future?

I would appreciate some feedback

Thanks very much

Henrik

PS: I am in Australia

I recommend that you try to find some good dealers in Australia willing to demonstrate your shortlisted printers.
Take along some of your favorite paper and some of your challenging images.
Ask the dealer to profile your paper and then print your test images.
Ideally you would want to see the same image printed on each printer so that you can compare side to side.
This is what a UK dealer provided for me when I was considering the Epson 7900 back in 2008.

By the way, on the same profiled paper my 7900 and Z3200 produce matte rag prints that I struggle to tell apart with the naked eye. Both are excellent. However, speed and reliability are the main differentiators for me. Although my Epson 7900 is a noticeably faster printer my Z3200 is more productive as it has much easier colour management and it is much more reliable. The Z3200 also has much  better predicted  print permanence according to Wilhelm Research. (The Epson is much better for loading paper though :-)

[Ryan Grayley]

I don't know why but if you look at the profile for Epson Tradition it whomps all other printers. Yet on most other papers the Z3200 has a slight advantage. Yet the HP inks don't work that well on all papers where as Epson work on pretty much anything.

Problem is HP have discontinued many of their photo and FA papers for these printers , hence there will be a big gap in IQ due to their incompatible inks on some third party papers.

Neil, do you know which HP media has been discontinued? Which third party media have you found to be incompatible with the Z3200?

I have found that my Z3200 leaves a star wheel pattern on some third party resin papers. (I think this could be due to the drying time being too slow?)

A while ago on LL I posted my findings with a few papers on my Z3200:
http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....st&p=278460

Since then I have had success with the media below:

Hahnemuehle PhotoRag Ultra Smooth
Canson Photographique 310
HP Pro Matte Canvas

[Ryan Grayley]

Third party media I use on my Z3100 and Z3200 with no problems

HFA Photo Rag 308
HFA Photo Rag Bright White 310
HFA Bamboo 290
HFA Photo Rag Baryta 315
HFA Fine Art Canvas 350
Epson Premium Luster
Epson Premium Semi Gloss

and now I'm in the process of testing out

Canson BFK Rives 310
Canson Rag Photographique 310
Canson Arches Aquarelle Rag 310
Canson PhotoSatin Premium 270

Thanks George - that's great.

Can anyone else let us know which third party media has been successful on the Z3200 please?

[Roscolo]

Thanks George - that's great.

Can anyone else let us know which third party media has been successful on the Z3200 please?

Have had no 3rd party paper problems on my z3100. Innova Cold Press Art works great, also Kodak Satin and Glossy photo papers and LexJet Sunset Select Matte all good results

[jsparks]

I don't have a Z3200, but do have an HP B9180.  I've had problems with some glossy and semi-gloss papers (I don't think you will have any incompatibilities with matte papers although what makes the best matte paper on the HP may very well be different from the best on Epson or Canon).  The main problem I see is that the ink doesn't stick to some gloss papers very well and creates tiny beads up in highlights making the print look very grainy. In the shadows, some papers show the ink incompatibility as a matte like finish that rubs off easily (although it can sometimes be buffed off to make a nice looking print).  When I tested Baryta papers, the only one that worked for me was Harmon but I haven't tested any Baryta papers released in the last year or so.  The Z3200 probably has slightly different ink from the B9180 and the gloss enhancer may help, but it sounds like the Z3200 still has problems with some papers.

I've been looking for a new larger printer and am hesitant to get another HP because of the paper incompatibility issue.   I make a few prints on matte, but most of my prints are made on satin or baryta papers.

Since Epson has been around with pigment printers longer than the others and has the biggest market share, I'd expect all the paper companies to make sure their paper works with Epson.  Has anyone noticed paper incompatibilities with Canon printers or is it best to just stick with Epson if you want the widest choice of paper?

John

[Ernst Dinkla]

I don't have a Z3200, but do have an HP B9180.  I've had problems with some glossy and semi-gloss papers (I don't think you will have any incompatibilities with matte papers although what makes the best matte paper on the HP may very well be different from the best on Epson or Canon).  The main problem I see is that the ink doesn't stick to some gloss papers very well and creates tiny beads up in highlights making the print look very grainy. In the shadows, some papers show the ink incompatibility as a matte like finish that rubs off easily (although it can sometimes be buffed off to make a nice looking print).  When I tested Baryta papers, the only one that worked for me was Harmon but I haven't tested any Baryta papers released in the last year or so.  The Z3200 probably has slightly different ink from the B9180 and the gloss enhancer may help, but it sounds like the Z3200 still has problems with some papers.

I've been looking for a new larger printer and am hesitant to get another HP because of the paper incompatibility issue.   I make a few prints on matte, but most of my prints are made on satin or baryta papers.

Since Epson has been around with pigment printers longer than the others and has the biggest market share, I'd expect all the paper companies to make sure their paper works with Epson.  Has anyone noticed paper incompatibilities with Canon printers or is it best to just stick with Epson if you want the widest choice of paper?

John

I doubt that pigment inksets are that different and the Z models at least have the ability to create custom media presets where the ink limitation can be controlled. Add the good information available on ink limits etc in the OEM media presets of the Z models and calibration + profiling possible. The B9180 doesn't tell much about the Z models compatibility with gloss papers. There are baryta and fiber papers that are not very good with any printer like HP's baryta version. There are excellent ones like HM Photorag Baryta, Sihl satin Barite. The gloss enhancer makes a difference too.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/

[vgogolak]

Often there is one item that pushes to a certain brand or other. In the printer case, I thought the spectro on HP Z was the discriminant; but Michael's review (and my subsequent experience since I bought the 7900) is that the profiles on Epson are just fine, the reds look good (and yes, maybe the HP is a tad deeper).
BUT..
the real deciding factor was the thicker paper handled by the Epson. Even putting the 'pizza wheel' mark issue aside, I just didn't want to be limited.

I must say that the 7900 has been as easy as Michael said (AFTER we finally got it up three flights - the thing is a MONSTER!  :-) printing is easy, and reasonably fast-I do 6ft panos!

Regards
Victor

[felix5616]

I had 3 epsons, a 4800, a 7800 and a 3800. I then switched to an HP Z3100 and finally an HP Z3200. I would never go back to epsons. The HPs sip ink.  After some initial firmware issues and the need to replace an optical sensor(under warranty) they run great and never clog despite 3 months of no activity. I love being able to create my own profiles.  I used the starter inks for 8 months before i had to change ink.

[artobest]

and now I'm in the process of testing out

Canson BFK Rives 310
...

BFK Rives is just about my favourite paper on the Z3200. It's luscious.

The papers I've had trouble with are the Hahnemuhle pearl papers - too much gloss differential. I haven't adjusted the GE levels to counteract it, but I'm sure that would work. Apart from that, every paper I've tried has given me great results. Favourite papers? The aforementioned BFK Rives, H. Bamboo, H. Photorag Baryta (wonderful paper). There are others, too - papers from Moab, Canson, Innova - so many that I truly wonder whether paper compatibility is really an issue with this machine.

[tived]

Thanks guys for taking the time to answer some of my concerns here.

My beef with the current Z3100 is that it is often too red saturated - and yes, I can to some degree compensate this in Photoshop.

I have done my own profiles with iOnePro which has been better then with the built in spectro.

I mainly print on HM Photo Rag Baryta, as my preferred media. But I use canvas and other media's too. Also we shoot mainly portraits, in studio and on location (outdoors)

I have at home an old Epson 4000, I am not saying its a better printer, but its more predictable and again I have made my own profiles for this one too, and I am very pleased with it. However, I would like the HP to perform in the same way.

I have been told by many that the new EPSON sucks ink faster then you can fill them up, that the HP Z-series is more economical (provided that the print doesn't needs reprinting :-) )

thanks guy, I appreciate you insight here

Henrik

[abiggs]

I have a Z3200, and one thing that I wish I could nail down was which paper type to start off with when I use a new 3rd party paper. Sometimes it takes me 4 or 5 choices, which takes up a ton of time and paper, to arrive at something I think is the best that I can get. And then once I get there I may have to mess with the gloss enhancer amount some.

The Z3200 is a wonderful machine with more options and capabilities of an Epson, however this increased functionality does take time to get to know and fully understand. With that being said I think the Epson is a better out of the box printer, and the Z3200 has better functionality in a couple of areas that exceed the Epson. Here are those things that the Z3200 excels at:

ink consumption
gloss ehancer
black and white toning in the driver (both highlights and shadows separately)
built in spectro for creating profiles

I hope this helps

Andy

[EricWHiss]

I had 3 epsons, a 4800, a 7800 and a 3800. I then switched to an HP Z3100 and finally an HP Z3200. I would never go back to epsons. The HPs sip ink.  After some initial firmware issues and the need to replace an optical sensor(under warranty) they run great and never clog despite 3 months of no activity. I love being able to create my own profiles.  I used the starter inks for 8 months before i had to change ink.

This is nearly my experience exactly - I had the 4000, 7600 and a 3000 set up for piezotones.    I found that I could make quite a nice print with the epsons but most of the time I wanted to beat them to bits with a sledge hammer because of the constant paper feed problems, ink clogging, cleaning, and ink wastage.  It seemed that sometimes that things would go smooth and then from one day to the next take a dive.  The kind of things like wasting $100 of ink to change from matte black to photo black that took 3 generations for epson to fix and the extra paper feed really frustrated me, but it was the inconsistent performance that really made me swear I'd never buy another epson.   I hated staying up all night to get a job done or a set of prints for a show because the printer took a crap and decided to clog or have some other prob. And I really hated how much ink it took - seemed like it was always needing a cartridge often wasting a print in the middle and that I'd have to redo after changing the carts. I understand that epsons have improved, but my issue was never that it couldn't make a decent print, but more on the ink media wastage (seemingly by design) and the inconsistent, unreliable behavior.

I just bought a z3200  24 inch model for what's going to be $1699 after their rebate plus I am getting the free netbook too.  I am hopeful that this will be a better printer.

[Henry Goh]

n) and the inconsistent, unreliable behavior.

I just bought a z3200  24 inch model for what's going to be $1699 after their rebate plus I am getting the free netbook too.  I am hopeful that this will be a better printer.

Eric,

Care to share how you managed to buy the Z3200 at that fantastic price?

Thanks.

[EricWHiss]

Eric,

Care to share how you managed to buy the Z3200 at that fantastic price?

Thanks.

itsupplies.com   ... the price is $2199 for the 24inch model and HP offers a $500 rebate for people upgrading from similar format printers which I am plus the free netbook.  Still up on their site on the main page...http://www.itsupplies.com/ They also offered free shipping.   Actually they had specials on the other HP models as well as on the Canon and I think Epson too.

[Roscolo]

I found that I could make quite a nice print with the epsons but most of the time I wanted to beat them to bits with a sledge hammer because of the constant paper feed problems, ink clogging, cleaning, and ink wastage.  It seemed that sometimes that things would go smooth and then from one day to the next take a dive.  The kind of things like wasting $100 of ink to change from matte black to photo black that took 3 generations for epson to fix and the extra paper feed really frustrated me, but it was the inconsistent performance that really made me swear I'd never buy another epson.   I hated staying up all night to get a job done or a set of prints for a show because the printer took a crap and decided to clog or have some other prob. And I really hated how much ink it took - seemed like it was always needing a cartridge often wasting a print in the middle and that I'd have to redo after changing the carts. I understand that epsons have improved, but my issue was never that it couldn't make a decent print, but more on the ink media wastage (seemingly by design) and the inconsistent, unreliable behavior.

Pretty much summarizes my Epson experience as well. Coming up on 3 years with the HP z3100 with nary a clog! Had to replace one printhead about 2 years in and that was only $50.

[namartinnz]

Pretty much summarizes my Epson experience as well. Coming up on 3 years with the HP z3100 with nary a clog! Had to replace one printhead about 2 years in and that was only $50.

Same here with a z3100, three years of great use with barely a whisper of issues - great B&W printing. I still have an Epson 4000 - it does it's huge ink guzzling head clean every week if I use it. Now good for printing invoices. Saying that I have no problem with the actual print outputs of Epsons, but this purchase round was won by HP.

Neal

[abiggs]

It should be said that you should also consider the Canon iPF8100. I have one as well as the Z3200, and it is actually my go-to machine for most of my work. It is a more robust printer, it is lightning fast and the output is fantastic. Prices on the iPF printers tend to be very very aggressive, which also helps.

[Neuffy]

It should be said that you should also consider the Canon iPF8100. I have one as well as the Z3200, and it is actually my go-to machine for most of my work. It is a more robust printer, it is lightning fast and the output is fantastic. Prices on the iPF printers tend to be very very aggressive, which also helps.

I definitely agree. Especially look into the service availability in your area. For where I am, Canon service is wonderful and easily accessible. I had one issue on initial install, and Canon took care of it quickly. HP is almost nonexistent. Easy choice, that.

As I am producing my own custom profiles with an i1 Pro, I couldn't see any reason to go for HP over Canon.