Switching from PC to Mac?

[Jack Flesher]

So VMware Fusion would be easier than booting up windows with bootcamp?
Marc

Works awesome for me -- opens as a window in OSX and  XP runs faster in the OSX window with other processes running than it did on my Dell workstation all by itself.  When you're doen, close the window down like any other program, no need to reboot the whole system. Granted that Dell was only a dual XEON 3.6 with 4G ram, but still...

[Jack Flesher]

You don't have the option of running Mac OS on a PC.

Google "hackintosh" -- there are some pretty impressive builds out there .  

However, one thing about the MacPro towers that rarely gets mentioned is noise -- I have mine sitting on a table right next to my desk, and it is virtually silent.  (The DVD drive spinning is not silent and by far the most annoying noise my tower makes.)

[jerryrock]

Google "hackintosh" -- there are some pretty impressive builds out there .

All illegal violating Copyright Law by creating "derivative works"  modifying Apple OS so it will work on non-Apple systems:

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/914...systar_s_coffin?

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Then please explain why you refer to Microsoft Windows as "windoze".  I completely agree with Jonsthan's assertions and conclusions.  If you are not a fanatic, then why stoop to their terminology?

With pleasure... I use the term Windoze as I find it a cute and lighthearted pun... pretty much the same as I find Apple "I am a Mac" commercials: lighthearted, fun and cute, regardless of how accurate they are. I believe we all need more fun and humor in our lives, and poking harmless and lighthearted fun at certain things that are part of our lives and that we too often take too personally and too seriously (like the choice of a computer system) is one way of achieving it, at least for me. You might also note that I used a self-depreciating term for my own comment, poking fun at myself (i.e., "fanboy gushing").

If some people find it personally insulting, please note that I am referring to (or insulting, if you insists) an operating system, i.e., an inanimate, impersonal object. If you personally find it insulting when an inanimate object is insulted, it appears that you might have developed a relationship with that object far from a healthy one  Besides, I've been a PC user for twenty years before switching, and to this day continue to use it on a daily basis (inside a virtual machine), so if I would take "Windoze" pun personally and seriously, I would be insulting myself too.

In contrast to making fun (or insulting, if you again insist) of an inanimate object, what Jonathan did is engage in ad hominem attacks on people using the other operating system, and embarking on a psycho-analisis of their "sinister" intentions. Please note that before Jonathan's attack in this thread, there was just one instance of something some people might find objectionable: my use of the term "Windoze". In response to that, we heard that we, the users, (and not Mac operating system), are:

"cadre of zealots; religion or cult; with the compulsive need to either convert, insult, or subdue; strong superiority complex; rabid [sic]; fervent; etc."

Jonathan later qualified that he meant "some" users, not all users... later on he would rephrase it as "a fairly large user segment". Given that such a statement was made on this thread, I would assume that it refers to at least some posters as well. If it was not meant so (i.e., against some posters on this thread), than why bother bringing it up? What relevance the existence (real or perceived) of such a "cadre of zealots" would have on the OP decision to switch or not? Would that "cadre" chase and harass the OP after he switches (or if he does not switch)? I never heard of Mac "religious fanatics" torching non-Apple stores, or bombing PC Clinics.

Please note that Mac-user contributors to the thread mostly stayed on topic, providing factual information about their experience (debunking along the way Jonathan's misinformation that the OP "will have to re-buy all his software"), or their feelings (e.g. "I switched, I am happy and I never looked back"). Nothing they said (apart from using the term "Windoze") was even remotely as disparaging or insulting as some of Jonathan's own statements.

[Gemmtech]

Not to rehash what has already been said, but the best feature of buying a Mac is the ability to run Windows if one has a need to do so. This allows you to use your current PC software without having to upgrade. Both my MacPro and MacBook Pro dual boot with Vista Ultimate 64 bit. You don't have the option of running Mac OS on a PC. This gives you the freedom to run platform specific software on your machine.

When I switched to Mac back in 2006 at the advise of my Graphic Design Professor, I was a Windows user for 12 years. I built my own machines often struggling with compatibility and driver issues. I am very happy with my choice to switch to Mac. I now have solid computer systems manufactured by the same company that writes the software and compiles the drivers. Mac also has the best support in the industry.

I did switch my Adobe software to Mac Platform. This involved a phone call to Adobe verifying serial numbers, downloading and faxing a certificate of software destruction(agreeing to destroy the Windows based copy) and paying shipping charges for the Mac version of the Adobe software.

When you build your own machines, it is true you need to do more research before building to avoid compatibility issues.  It's been a loooooooooooooooong time since I've had any issues building my own systems.  I didn't switch to MACs but rather started using them in 2006 and had 3 IMACs die, I am typing this on a MBP 15".  There is some really great programs out there ported only to Windows and most if not all CAD software is Windows based only, anything with an AutoCad engine is Windows only.  You can dualboot which is what I do, but you still have to buy the Windows disc.  I haven't found any MAC specific software that is a "Holy Grail" product, there are many for Windows machines.

[Misirlou]

All illegal violating Copyright Law by creating "derivative works"  modifying Apple OS so it will work on non-Apple systems:

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/914...systar_s_coffin?

It may be illegal to sell such a thing, but it's not illegal to build one for your own purposes. It does most certainly violate the Apple EULA.

[budjames]

And I thought we left this type of argument in... what?... fifth grade?

When I was in 5th grade, Steve Jobs was in 6th grade. Even if they had Macs and PCs then, I would not have been able to afford either. LOL:)

Cheers.
Bud

[marcmccalmont]

Boy did I open a can of worms! But it has been both informative and entertaining!
Marc

[lumpidu]

Hi,

 I am a computer scientist, working with Windows machines since Windows 3.1, with Linux machines since Linux 2.2 and with Macs since a PowerMac 1,8 GHz. For my home computers, I entirely rely on Macs now, which are 2 MacBook Pros and an iMac 24". At work I am using Windows XP, Ubuntu and RHEL. I find Linux still the best platform for programming. I am in the embedded systems world, e.g. embedded Linux and VxWorks for those who know this O.S. But I feel very comfortable under a Mac as well, because OS X has basically a Unix foundation and I use the Shell program a lot.

What I really like about the Macs is the integration of Hard- and Software components. I like the nice ideas, e.g. Spotlight, TimeMachine, one Menubar for all programs. It changed the way I deal with the computer. I don't organize my documents any more in hierarchies, because there is spotlight. I don't care about backups any more, because there is Time Machine and Superduper. I don't care about Virusscanners, because for the time beeing, there are no viruses. I know this will change, but I am having a good time now. Recently I was booting my MacBook Pro from the external mirror drive of my iMac, because I wanted to copy some data. This worked without any hassles. Please: try this with Windows ! I mean just try it: two totally different computers with the same Windows Installation, booted via FireWire.

I used to assemble and maintain PC in my student times and have seen a lot of boxes inside and outside. But never have I seen before such a beautifully made piece of computer like my 1,8 GHz PowerMac. Opening the box was simply an experience for itself. The internal layout, the cleanliness, haptics, solid and exceptionally made. In comparison everything else I have seen before looked cheap. Ok now it's not the fastest machine on earth and thus I seldom use it, but it's still a great designed product.
Computers are not made for their appearance alone, but it shows the kind of effort that Apple puts into details which I think tells about itself. They design the computer after usability. Their focus is the user. It shows in many ways: OS, Application Software, Hardware, Design, Innovation, programming language and the API

I am using computers all day long and guess I don't feel like having to fix quirks of the OS or the computer hardware at home. Graphics card drivers, sound card drivers, new card installed, new software installed, blue screen, etc. I have to do it all the time at work. And then home is home, isn't it ? Do we really want to have ugly PC's optically polluting our nicely furnished rooms ? I prefer having a nice and quiet iMac on my Desk which shuts on and off in 1,2,3. And please connect a good headphone to a Mac, because here again: this is quality sound. My Sennheiser HD280 pro sounds terrific over my iMac or MacBook Pro.

Windows XP is so quirky, I only use it for programs I have to use and because the directive of our IT Department is that it officially only supports Windows XP. I have no idea about Windows 7. I guess it's a good product, but I also see they copying the ideas of OS X, so why should I bother ? I already have the original.

Mac OS X works for me and I don't feel like switching back to Windows, but I will try out Windows 7 in a VM just to see it. By the way, try out Virtual Box from Sun. It's a nice Virtualization product. And it's free, available for OS X, Linux and Windows. A good alternative to VMWare. It can also mount VMware disks, if you already use VMWare.

Would I recommend Mac OS X to my mom ? Absolutely.


My 2 cents,

Daniel Schnell.

[marcmccalmont]

Hi,
I am using computers all day long and guess I don't feel like having to fix quirks of the OS or the computer hardware at home. Graphics card drivers, sound card drivers, new card installed, new software installed, blue screen, etc. I have to do it all the time at work. And then home is home, isn't it ? Do we really want to have ugly PC's optically polluting our nicely furnished rooms ? I prefer having a nice and quiet iMac on my Desk which shuts on and off in 1,2,3. And please connect a good headphone to a Mac, because here again: this is quality sound. My Sennheiser HD280 pro sounds terrific over my iMac or MacBook Pro.



My 2 cents,

Daniel Schnell.

Thanks for your 2 cents! BTW try driving your Sennheisers with a headroom total bithead (headphone amp) I use an iPOD as a source then the total bithead to drive the HD600's really nice!
Marc

[lumpidu]

Thanks for your 2 cents! BTW try driving your Sennheisers with a headroom total bithead (headphone amp) I use an iPOD as a source then the total bithead to drive the HD600's really nice!
Marc

Yes the IPod output seems to be not as good as from their computers. At least my IPhone doesn't sound as good on my Sennheiser. I will look into the total bithead, although I am very happy with what comes out of my Mac computers.

Daniel.

[Jonathan Wienke]

In contrast to making fun (or insulting, if you again insist) of an inanimate object, what Jonathan did is engage in ad hominem attacks on people using the other operating system, and embarking on a psycho-analisis of their "sinister" intentions. Please note that before Jonathan's attack in this thread, there was just one instance of something some people might find objectionable: my use of the term "Windoze". In response to that, we heard that we, the users, (and not Mac operating system), are:

"cadre of zealots; religion or cult; with the compulsive need to either convert, insult, or subdue; strong superiority complex; rabid [sic]; fervent; etc."

I find it kind of humorous that you're getting all butt-hurt that I mentioned the existence of the Apple zealots, even though I've not claimed that you personally are one. It's not an ad hominem attack to share personal experiences, especially since I took some pains to clarify that only some Apple users fall into the "zealot" category. I have personally met several Apple users who harassed and annoyed me and did their best to make me feel stupid and inferior on a regular basis because they used Macs and I didn't (at the time). They were more persistent and annoying in this regard than some Jehovah's Witnesses (who are bona fide religious cultists). If mentioning those experiences and pointing out that I've not observed similar behavior on the part of Windows users toward Apple users offends you, tough shiite. You were the first to use "fanboy gushing" about yourself...

If you don't want to be confused with the more fanatical flavor of Apple fanboy, then avoid engaging in the characteristic behavior patterns I mentioned: using disparaging terms toward non-Apple products, blindly recommending Apple products regardless of whether they best suit the person's needs or not, assuming that Apple products are always the best choice for everyone for every purpose, assuming that switching to Apple is always the best option, etc.

[Jonathan Wienke]

Yes the IPod output seems to be not as good as from their computers.

iPod output quality varies significantly from model to model. The output from my 8GB Nano is noticeably cleaner and has much better bass response than from my 16GB Touch or my 13" Macbook. But the output from my Sony VAIO laptop is better than any of them. This is true whether listening on headphones or plugged into my home theater receiver.

[graeme]

Apple stuff I've owned:

Powermac G4 450mHz bought March 2000. Expensive, beautiful and still doing productive work up until early 2007. Still works and I'd be quite happy to use it for email, surfing & word processing. Never had any problem with the hockey puck mouse either.

17" Studio Display ( CRT ) bought at same time as above. Relatively expensive, very beautiful and still doing productive work as a pallettes monitor for Photoshop work. Still works after rolling the length of a Ford Focus estate and smashing into the rear door after turning up a steep hill a couple of weeks ago. ( Stupid owner not paying attention - distracted by the trauma of moving home ).

Mac Pro Dual 2.66 ( quad core ) bought May 2007. A bargain at the time considering its' spec, beautiful ( in a big perforated aluminiumy kinda way ). Still feels like a very powerful machine. Very easy to add hard drives and memory to. Superdrive sounds horribly rattly and feels cheap but hasn't broken yet. Should last me for years yet. Came with the 'Mighty Mouse'. Great concept, crap execution.

20" Cinema Display 2007. OK VFM compared to other SIPS displays, beautiful. I'm happy enough with the colour matching ( with a DTP94 and Coloreyes Display Pro ) but have no experience of high end displays. It should have height adjustment.

iPod Nano 4GB Had to get the first one replaced as it kept freezing. Second model works better. Feels a bit cheap.

I sometimes work on a 24" iMac ( previous gen ) and I don't like the glossy screen. It also seems a bit unreliable. CDs that have been inside the drive for a short time come out feeling very warm - too many components in a cramped space.

If I had to buy a Photoshop workstation at this moment I'd build my own PC ( to take advantage of 64 bit  and because the Mac Pros are too expensive ) but I'd use my old Mac for everything else.

I'm not an Apple fanboy - I find the iApps oddly irritating - but I appreciate the general solidity of the OS and not having to worry much about maintenance, viruses and security issues.

I definitely trust the Apple pro gear more than the consumer stuff though.

Regards

Graeme

[nemophoto]

Don't let all the Mac Fanboys snow you. A computer is a computer, and there are many problems with Macs/OS X, just different -- especially with the latest version. I work on a PC, my wife (a graphic designer) on a Mac. She swears as much at her Mac in a day as I do my PC -- we share on office so this is first hand. I often have to troubleshoot her computer and especially networking issues. She frequently suffers crashes with Photoshop. Some days she can't even launch the program, even after rebooting. Other days, not a hiccup. But, invariably, the bad days are the days she's on deadline, and for instance, InDesign refuse to print a file. You can say that's Adobe's fault, but regardless the software must run under either Windows or OS X.

That said, Apple does a nice job with industrial design and putting the pieces together. There is something to be said for full vertical integration in a product that barely allows for add-ons. Apple dreated a whole new definition of "proprietary". But, as I said in the beginning, a computer is a computer. You WILL have problems -- they'll just be different ones from the ones you have on Windows.

[Christopher Sanderson]

Something arcane for Windows users to smile at and for the Mac users to know.
(I offered this at the PODAS 'do' last month and was amazed that so few Mac users know of the this house-keeping technique.)

Mac users!! If you are getting cursed by the spinning beach ball (and odd crashes) there is a simple solution that should likely be performed weekly.

- Reboot your Mac with the Shift key held down. This boots the Mac into 'SAFE' mode. A progress bar will appear as the Mac writes out all the essential system pages to a new directory.
- Once the Mac is booted into your user account, find the Disk Utilities app in your Utilities folder, boot it and then highlight your hard drive (probably named Macintosh HD) from the list of disks at the left. Click the 'Repair Disk Permissions' button. Go have a coffee for 5 minutes or so.
- When complete, reboot your computer (this is important). The boot process will now take all those shiny polished system pages and place them back where they belong.

Live free of the spinning beach ball of death for a while.

Chris

[Pete_G]

Boy did I open a can of worms! But it has been both informative and entertaining!
Marc

When bringing up that subject, it's always going to be a can of worms! There's seeminbly no way to avoid it. It's nice to see that this thread has not got too out of control though. That's rare.

I've never really understood the Mac v PC argument when it get's really heated, it's a question for Social Anthropologists. The best view is to see them as different versions of the same thing. A bloody computer!

On the  "Windoze" front, I think this IS important. Slobadan said he didn't mean, or even think, that using "Windoze" was insulting. I believe him, but using that word IS insulting nevertheless.

Windoze is a dozey OS, the implication is that Windoze users must also be dozey. That's just not true.

Its' more interesting to discuss apps rather than OS's, and if we should discuss OS's then it should be without the usual bagage of Mac v PC killing fields.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... Apple still doesn't have an actual maximize button so that you can resize a window to fill the entire screen. With most apps, you have to drag the window and resize it manually. WTF??? Is that supposed to be part of the "superior user experience"...

At the risk of being accused of just trying to "...minimize, ignore, or deny the existence of any flaws or problems in Apple products...", here is how I consider that a useful feature:

I am using a 24" iMac... a lot of "real estate"... my typical desktop would contain several windows: browser, email, IM, plus whatever I might be working on at the moment (pdf, spreadsheet, etc.)... they either all fit on one screen, or overlap in such a way that I can see important parts in each of them... in other words, no window is maximized, but occupies just the needed amount of space, based on the content of the window. Obviously, the way I work, I do not want any window maximized. Say I then move to a web site that requires a different window size to display its content without (horizontal) scrolling. With Safari, for example, clicking the green radio button  enlarges the window just enough to cover the new content... with Firefox, it actually maximizes the whole window, blocking everything else on the screen. Mostly for that reason alone, I prefer using Safari to Firefox. Now, everybody is entitled to argue whether that is a flaw or feature, good or bad... I am just explaining how I find it useful.

Now, in fairness to Jonathan's point of view, I can understand how some users, mostly those using smaller screens (say notebooks) might want to actually block everything else but the window they are in (in order to reduce the screen clutter, or they simply might prefer one way over another).

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... Slobadan said he didn't mean, or even think, that using "Windoze" was insulting. I believe him, but using that word IS insulting nevertheless.

Windoze is a dozey OS, the implication is that Windoze users must also be dozey. That's just not true...

Of course it is not true. However, if you believe a book should be judged by its cover, or a man by the clothes he wears, then you would be right to equate users of a dozy OS with "dozy" users.

Millions of people, for a number of reasons, are driving _______ (insert here your favorite car brand or country of origin you love to hate), which might generally be perceived as lower quality. Does it make drivers of that brand lower-quality people too? Of course not... and because it does not, people do not hesitate to call that brand the way they see it. If the opposite were true, it would be political correctness running amok: no one would be able to say anything remotely critical of any thing (thing, not people), as there would be always some group of people who would feel insulted by that.

[Pete_G]

Of course it is not true. However, if you believe a book should be judged by its cover, or a man by the clothes he wears, then you would be right to equate users of a dozy OS with "dozy" users.

Millions of people, for a number of reasons, are driving _______ (insert here your favorite car brand or country of origin you love to hate), which might generally be perceived as lower quality. Does it make drivers of that brand lower-quality people too? Of course not... and because it does not, people do not hesitate to call that brand the way they see it. If the opposite were true, it would be political correctness running amok: no one would be able to say anything remotely critical of any thing (thing, not people), as there would be always some group of people who would feel insulted by that.

If it were just you saying it then it isn't really a problem, but the vast majority of Mac users use this term and under those conditions it becomes offensive, and boring.
As Jonathan pointed out, how many PC users use similar derogatory terms for Macs and OSX.- - a tiny, tiny proportion.