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Author Topic: what calibration system for both nec30" AND printer?  (Read 4728 times)

NigelM

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what calibration system for both nec30" AND printer?
« on: November 26, 2009, 06:55:53 am »

i'm nearly about to order an nec LCD3090WQXi monitor and probably an epson 3990 printer and am wonderin how to calibrate both monitor AND printer.      i'm aware spectraview II with an eye-one puck is the standard calibration tool for the monitor but i dont know if this will calibrate the printer as well    

for calibrating both do i buy an eye-one but with more comprehensive software than the spectraview?     also i was wondering if a colormunki which is also made by x-rite would work for both monitor and printer as i've read impressive user reviews about it

i dont want to buy spectraview II with eye-one puck and then have to buy some other gear for the printer which apart from double spending may not match up the two as well as if i use the one calibration system

thankyou for any suggestions
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PeterAit

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what calibration system for both nec30" AND printer?
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2009, 07:37:37 pm »

Quote from: NigelM
i'm nearly about to order an nec LCD3090WQXi monitor and probably an epson 3990 printer and am wonderin how to calibrate both monitor AND printer.      i'm aware spectraview II with an eye-one puck is the standard calibration tool for the monitor but i dont know if this will calibrate the printer as well    

for calibrating both do i buy an eye-one but with more comprehensive software than the spectraview?     also i was wondering if a colormunki which is also made by x-rite would work for both monitor and printer as i've read impressive user reviews about it

i dont want to buy spectraview II with eye-one puck and then have to buy some other gear for the printer which apart from double spending may not match up the two as well as if i use the one calibration system

thankyou for any suggestions

What do you mean by "calibrate the printer?" Do you mean to create an ICC profile for it? Why would you want to do that?
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Thomas Krüger

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what calibration system for both nec30" AND printer?
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2009, 02:19:46 am »

With the X-Rite i1 Basic you can profile the monitor and the printer. The HP Z3100/3200 has a built-in colormeter (X-Rite) for profiling.
http://www.nativedigital.co.uk/shop/produc...cfc0b016011b784
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NigelM

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what calibration system for both nec30" AND printer?
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2009, 11:55:36 pm »

peter thanks so much for response and questions.     i want to assemble some equipment that will do color management and printing.     i dont know what icc profiles are but i do want to mouse over patches of color with a color meter so that my computer has a reference point for how the printer is expressing color on different papers.    (from here i thought it was also possible to adjust or "calibrate" the printer to print more accurate color emphasis curves which also sounds a good idea).    i'm basing my assumptions and questions on things i've read and seen on video and i have no physical experience with any of this yet so my understanding and terminology is probably woeful - hence i'd appreciate some help knowing what physical tools i need so i can dive in and learn more.
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NigelM

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what calibration system for both nec30" AND printer?
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2009, 12:01:10 am »

thankyou thomas,     the X-Rite i1 Basic and HP Z3100/3200 sound excellent.   however in australia the X-Rite i1 Basic costs au$1999 which is very pricey for me.    but perhaps i need to do more homework on what it does compared to cheaper alternatives and may end up having to settle for it.     the hp printers are also a bit pricey for me at this stage but i appreciate the built in colormeter and self profiling .    in my original post i meant to say i was looking at buying an epson 3880 not a 3990.     i got my numbers mixed up with the 7900 and 9900.     it would be nice to own an 11990 if one comes out by the way but by the time i could afford one the whole world of printing will probably have changed!!     thanks again for reply
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PeterAit

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what calibration system for both nec30" AND printer?
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2009, 04:51:02 pm »

Quote from: NigelM
peter thanks so much for response and questions.     i want to assemble some equipment that will do color management and printing.     i dont know what icc profiles are but i do want to mouse over patches of color with a color meter so that my computer has a reference point for how the printer is expressing color on different papers.    (from here i thought it was also possible to adjust or "calibrate" the printer to print more accurate color emphasis curves which also sounds a good idea).    i'm basing my assumptions and questions on things i've read and seen on video and i have no physical experience with any of this yet so my understanding and terminology is probably woeful - hence i'd appreciate some help knowing what physical tools i need so i can dive in and learn more.

What you describe is profiling the printer, and it is indeed an essential part of setting up a color-managed workflow. But, there's no need to do it yourself. Both printer and paper manufacturers provide profiles for just about any printer/paper combination you could think of, and there are also profiling services that let you print a target, send it to them, and they return a profile. These are experienced people using pro-grade equipment, and I bet their results are more accurate than you or I could get with consumer-level equipment.

You will need to calibrate your monitor, and for that an Eye-One or ColorMunki or similar device (with its software) will do the trick.

Good luck,
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NigelM

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what calibration system for both nec30" AND printer?
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2009, 11:37:50 pm »

peter thankyou you have precisely answered my question.     yes it appears the epson 3880 does come with those profiles you mentioned and they are considered very reliable.     also i was looking at an ad for a professional profiling service only the other day.   i just needed someone to map all these things out for me and put them in context which you have done in clear simple terms. now i'm ready for the next step.   thankyou!
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PeterAit

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what calibration system for both nec30" AND printer?
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2009, 09:36:13 am »

Quote from: NigelM
peter thankyou you have precisely answered my question.     yes it appears the epson 3880 does come with those profiles you mentioned and they are considered very reliable.     also i was looking at an ad for a professional profiling service only the other day.   i just needed someone to map all these things out for me and put them in context which you have done in clear simple terms. now i'm ready for the next step.   thankyou!

Glad to help. This color management stuff is not nearly as difficult as some people make out. You need to understand what you are doing and follow the instructions, of course. When I set up my workflow last year it took me about an hour to set up color management and my first print was an excellent match to the screen. Based on my experiences, I would offer three bits of advice.

1) You never get a perfect screen/print match simply because a monitor and a print are fundamentally different in how they produce an image. You can, however, get it close enough to make prints come out the way you want (with some experience).

2) Always use soft-proofing. An example of a workflow using soft proofing can be found on my web site (below).

3) Be sure to have either Photoshop (or whatever program you use for printing) OR the printer driver manage colors, never both and never neither.
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Dale Allyn

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what calibration system for both nec30" AND printer?
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2009, 06:12:51 pm »

Quote from: NigelM
i'm nearly about to order an nec LCD3090WQXi monitor and probably an epson 3990 printer and am wonderin how to calibrate both monitor AND printer.      i'm aware spectraview II with an eye-one puck is the standard calibration tool for the monitor but i dont know if this will calibrate the printer as well    

for calibrating both do i buy an eye-one but with more comprehensive software than the spectraview?     also i was wondering if a colormunki which is also made by x-rite would work for both monitor and printer as i've read impressive user reviews about it

i dont want to buy spectraview II with eye-one puck and then have to buy some other gear for the printer which apart from double spending may not match up the two as well as if i use the one calibration system

thankyou for any suggestions

Hi Nigel,

My approach would be a bit different, but somewhat similar to what Peter has described. One of the great benefits of the NEC display you are getting is the ability to calibrate it via the 12-bit Look-up Tables (LUTs). This is different than simply tweaking the video card via non-proprietary solutions like Xrite's etc. I use the latter for my non-NEC displays and it works well, but for the NEC I prefer to take advantage of the hardware calibration afforded by SpectraView II and the calibrated puck. The calibration via SV II is much more detailed and dead-simple to do.

Like Peter suggested, I too would suggest starting with a generic profile for your paper/printer combination. Then I would order a custom profile from any of a number of resources for each paper/printer combination as needed. One can get quality custom profiles for anywhere from about $20 to $100 per paper (depending on source). These will generally be done by people with expensive software and hardware (and experience) and, in most cases, produce better profiles than those made with consumer, entry-level options.

Good luck, and enjoy the new NEC.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2009, 06:16:29 pm by DFAllyn »
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PeterAit

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what calibration system for both nec30" AND printer?
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2009, 07:11:17 pm »

Quote from: DFAllyn
Hi Nigel,

My approach would be a bit different, but somewhat similar to what Peter has described. One of the great benefits of the NEC display you are getting is the ability to calibrate it via the 12-bit Look-up Tables (LUTs). This is different than simply tweaking the video card via non-proprietary solutions like Xrite's etc. I use the latter for my non-NEC displays and it works well, but for the NEC I prefer to take advantage of the hardware calibration afforded by SpectraView II and the calibrated puck. The calibration via SV II is much more detailed and dead-simple to do.

Like Peter suggested, I too would suggest starting with a generic profile for your paper/printer combination. Then I would order a custom profile from any of a number of resources for each paper/printer combination as needed. One can get quality custom profiles for anywhere from about $20 to $100 per paper (depending on source). These will generally be done by people with expensive software and hardware (and experience) and, in most cases, produce better profiles than those made with consumer, entry-level options.

Good luck, and enjoy the new NEC.

I agree 100% on the SpectraView, that's what I use.
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Dale Allyn

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what calibration system for both nec30" AND printer?
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2009, 07:13:01 pm »

Quote from: PeterAit
I agree 100% on the SpectraView, that's what I use.

Great minds think alike.
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digitaldog

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what calibration system for both nec30" AND printer?
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2009, 09:51:09 am »

Absolutely use the NEC software for the display, not a 3rd party solution. For print profiles, might look into the ColorMunki. That hardware is supported, at least in the US version of SpectraView.
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NigelM

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what calibration system for both nec30" AND printer?
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2009, 10:47:38 am »

thankyou peter, very practical advice again and helpful steps which make a lot of sense listed on your site.  yes things up to now certainly have appeared difficult and complicated. and yes i imagine i will probably softproof a lot at least at first but the clear workflow steps you outlined should hopefully keep things in a manageable ballpark. thanks again

and thankyou dale.      you must have been reading my mind.       i just sent off an email to nec australia asking them to confirm if we have the US version of the LCD3090WQXi with built in video processing hardware (some i believe would say this makes it "hardware calibrateable") or if we have the UK version which doesn't have the hardware (so i've read).      what you've described about the 12 bit LUT's fits with nec australia's webpage description of our LCD3090WQXi monitor tho so it all looks good so far      

i also asked nec to indicate whether there is any specific advantage to using spectraview II and eye-one with this screen.     but you've already answered my question in pointing out that the spectraview is what controls all that good 12 bit color/brightness callibration hardware.    i did think i'd like to play with a colormunki and do some of my own paper/printer profiling as an interesting comparison to the manufacturer and professional profiles and also to perhaps profile some more obscure papers that caught my attention but it sounds like the spectraview II is really the master controller for this monitor      

the only other question i asked nec was is there an upgraded LCD3090WQXi2 monitor around and if so what's in the upgrade?     i've seen this newer model number around in a few places and never found out what exactly it refers to

with the nec 30", apart from the size and picture quality, i love the idea of it being able to rotate into portrait orientation.      wide screens seem such a waste when youre working on a portrait otherwise!

by the way dale your point about the generic and custom profiles is one i'll remember if i find i want to go a step further in printing accuracy.    thankyou for that word from your experience

thankyou all for chatting which has been a blessing and has really helped part the clouds.    this move into color management and printing will be a huge step up from just photoshopping away on my laptop for the last 3 years using 2 screens and trying by eye to make pictures that look good on both screens and in both day and night time light.      i hope i get into the swing of it.        

thanks again for your interest

best wishes

nigel
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