Another Filter Question

[Gary_Berg]

Adorama should be fine, as well as B&H Photo. I've also had good luck with the Filter Connection (www.2filter.com) although it's been a year or so since I ordered from them.

ND's = .3 is 1 stop, .6 is 2 stop, .9 is 3 stop.

I've had good luck cleaning the Hoya MC filters with the fluid that Filter Connection advertises for this - Formula MC, I think.

MC is better, more light gets through. Look at the 2filter.com site, I believe they have some information about MC filters like this. I know I've seen Hoya ads in the past comparing the clarity of uncoated, mono-coated, and multi-coated filters...

[dwdallam]

I don't think you need (G)ND with your digital camera at all. This has been discussed on this forum and in Michael's Understanding series. On the other hand, a polarizer is useful. That said, I may have misunderstood you and you were talking about neutral density and not graduated neutral density? Real NDs can be useful, of course.

As for decimals, 0.3 = 1-Stop; 0.6 = 2-Stops and 0.9 = 3-Stops.

The 77mm filter size size is the largest on Canon EF lenses (I wouldn't bet the farm on it, though). On some third-parties lenses you'll find 82mm filters but this isn't very common.

Francois

No no, I'm not getting GND, just ND. I also just thought about something. If I get the larger filter sizes, I can't use my lens hood. Do you think the trade off of having the larger filters for future use outweighs the use of a lens hood? I know I've seen alot more light reflection (spots) when not using my hood and trying to get shots that are angles more into the light. The hood does seem to stop a lot of stray light from bouncing around the lens and showing up as light spots in the picture. Or should I just buy two ND filters for my 58mm lens and be done with it for now?

[Jonathan Wienke]

The 77mm filter size size is the largest on Canon EF lenses (I wouldn't bet the farm on it, though).

That's pretty much the case for everything but the longer primes, which generally have drop-in filters in the back instead of huge filters in the front. A 600/4 filter size would be at least 150mm, which would be prohibitively expensive and not fun to cart around. 77mm covers all the short primes and the zooms like the 17-40/4L, 24-70/2.8L and 70-200/2.8L IS.

Regarding the lens hood issue, check out this link.

BTW, Bob, the reason we're having this discussion is because a future DSLR purchase is indeed a possibility.

[francois]

Well, I'm not aware of 4-stop NDs. A 4-Stop Hitech square filter seems to be available but it's a Cokin style filter. As an alternative, Singh-Ray developped the Vari-ND filter. It can provide you with up to 8-Stop of density. I've no experience with this filter. It is very expansive (around $340) to start with and I don't know how compatible it is with wide-angle lenses as it appears quite thick.
My question: is the Vari-ND more than a couple of polarizers glued together?
If someone has more hand-on info about the Vari-ND filter, I'd be interested!

Francois

[dwdallam]

Where online do you buy your filters? (Androma ok?)

I've decided to go with 77mm filters and use step up rings for my Sony F828. That way I can use the filters on the better Cannons or Nikons I will eventualkly purchase--is this sound logic, or should I go larger?

Which brands do you all recommend. Ken Rockwells essay on filters is all over the place, but he recommends Hoya, Cokin, and Nikon.

Also, what decimals = F stops. Is it .3 = 1Fstop, .6 = 4 Fstops? If so, would that mean that .4 would be 2 Fstops, .5 = 3 Fstops and .6 = 4 and so on?

Last, should I be concerned with coatings? As I understand it, the uncoated filters are much easier to clean, and can even be cleaned with soap and tap water. The MC glass as I understand it can be hard to clean. What do you suggest?

Thanks--almost ready to make that purchase.

[francois]

I don't think you need (G)ND with your digital camera at all. This has been discussed on this forum and in Michael's Understanding series. On the other hand, a polarizer is useful. That said, I may have misunderstood you and you were talking about neutral density and not graduated neutral density? Real NDs can be useful, of course.

As for decimals, 0.3 = 1-Stop; 0.6 = 2-Stops and 0.9 = 3-Stops.

The 77mm filter size size is the largest on Canon EF lenses (I wouldn't bet the farm on it, though). On some third-parties lenses you'll find 82mm filters but this isn't very common.

Francois

[boku]

Just personal opinion, but if I were in your shoes I think I'd sit back and wonder if a DSLR wouldn't suit my needs better than a F828 Digicam. When your concern turns towards filters and depth of field, its time to consider the heavy artillery.

Again, personal opinion. But I've been there.

[dwdallam]

OK I've decided to buy the 58 mm size. First, when and if I go DSLR, I'll only be out 60 bucks for two hoya ND filters in the 58mm size. Since I already bought the polarizer, that's irrelevant now.

The next question I have is this:

Where can I get a quality Hoya, etc., at 4 stops? I went to two camera stores today, not chains, but real camera stores with real photographers, and they said Hoya doesn't list a 4 stop ND filter.

We decided on a 4 stop ND filter as a good starting point after one of the photographers took my camera outside and used my polarizer, which is 1 2/3 stops. In bright sunlight at F8, he was getting 1/60 shutter speed. Thus, he suggested I go with 4 stops.

We could have use a slightly longer speed without over exposing, but 120 really isn't good enough for blurring. On the other hand, 2 stops seems to allow me to use my widest aperture setting, so that is good. The DoF really shrinks when I use it also, and that is good too.

Hoya listed 1, 2, and 3 stops and then that's it. I cheked B+H online and searcehed for Hoya, Cokin, and B+W, but could not find a 4 stop ND filter. So what's the deal here?

(The Sony F828 has a maximum of F8.0 and a minimum of F2.0 but allows 1/2000 shutter speeds.)

[dwdallam]

Well, I'm not aware of 4-stop NDs. A 4-Stop Hitech square filter seems to be available but it's a Cokin style filter. As an alternative, Singh-Ray developped the Vari-ND filter. It can provide you with up to 8-Stop of density. I've no experience with this filter. It is very expansive (around $340) to start with and I don't know how compatible it is with wide-angle lenses as it appears quite thick.
My question: is the Vari-ND more than a couple of polarizers glued together?
If someone has more hand-on info about the Vari-ND filter, I'd be interested!

Francois

Actually you may want to start another thread with that specific interest. I just want to focus on the ND spectrum as stated above.