Topic: Shooting in large rooms (Read 3722 times)

paullantz · « **on:** February 16, 2005, 11:07:40 am »

I got a diffuser but havent really tried it.
Also thought might try lens with bigger opening, I have a 50mm 1.8 but hate to lose zoom ability (was using 28-135 IS). Ideally something like 35mm f1.8? would probably be best and pricy.

paullantz · « **Reply #1 on:** February 16, 2005, 12:15:38 pm »

at least the maple leaf logo is not "flourescent", amazing how many parkas have those reflective strips on them now (and wear them inside).

I loved the almost worshipful looks on the kids faces, most of them did not know who she was but they sure liked her.

paullantz · « **Reply #2 on:** February 22, 2005, 10:44:52 am »

I am looking forward to trying out a camera with better high ISO performance (20D?). Also think that one thing is to accept that pictures that are unposed in bad lighting are allowed to look grainy, the way they would have looked with Tri-X Pan.
One thing I tried, when I could not get people against background was bouncing flash off nearby walls.
Glad it is all for fun but nice to learn stuff and appreciate the suggestions and I think I will be less shy about moving people around.

Hank · « **Reply #3 on:** February 22, 2005, 11:45:24 pm »

I don't know of any strobes that are adjustable color temp, so I tape a piece of gel over mine any time I need to match it to ambient- whether indoors or out. You can get a free packet of Rosco gel swatches from most large pro camera stores that also sell lighting. Turns out they are just the right size to cover your strobe. Use a small spot of gaffers tape or duct tape at each end to hold them in place. The complete set of swatches has just about every color of the rainbow but isn't much bigger than a large pack of chewing gum. Really handy and doesn't take much room in a camera bag. Once you find which colors you are using most of the time, you can then buy a foot or so of that specific gel from the same store and cut out your own. A foot off a 3-foot roll should last you a LONG time.

The two general colors that are most useful to me are "grass green" and "straw." The green comes awfully close to matching your strobe to florescent light, so you can then WB your camera for that light source. The straw is just about perfect for matching the yellow cast in household incandescent light. Same deal. Put it on your strobe, then WB balance the camera for incandescent light.

paullantz · « **Reply #4 on:** February 16, 2005, 10:32:15 am »

Yesterday I took a lot of pictures in a school gym that was filled with display booths but also lots of open space. I had a 10D and 420EX flash. No problem with shots where I had a background or wall but not happy with shots with dark, ill lit void behind. Related problem was inability to use bounce flash due to ceiling height.
How do people typically handle situations such as this without a lot of fancy lighting (ie. with one flash on camera)?
A couple of things occured to me, e.g. diffuser for flash, higher speed to blur backgrounds, more thought into angle shooting from (but sometimes no choice).

Tim Gray · « **Reply #5 on:** February 16, 2005, 10:53:34 am »

a diffuser can help a bit, but there's no free lunch. check out Lumiquest

howard smith · « **Reply #6 on:** February 16, 2005, 11:21:52 am »

I don't know where you are or how important the shots are, but you might try to rent a lens rather than buy.

howard smith · « **Reply #7 on:** February 16, 2005, 12:11:19 pm »

Tough subject. Large groups have always caused me grief. The hair can be a problem easily silved with a back light, but not here. Try to position the subject and/or yourself to get that seperation.

There is some hair light going on the woman on the right that might be brought out in Photoshop. Her expression and animation is quite nice.

Larger f/stop will be a DoF concern, so you may want to limit the number of subjects. Looks like there could be plenty here though. The background is pretty good.

As an aside, I would put the kid with the Maple Leafs jacket in back. All I can see is the logo.

howard smith · « **Reply #8 on:** February 16, 2005, 12:24:06 pm »

The reflective thing can be a problem. Flashes without UV coated tubes can cause some whites to glow because of added whiteners. Some shampoos do the same thing and can make some peoples' heads explode. Weddings can be especially bad for that. Talk about surprise!

russell a · « **Reply #9 on:** February 16, 2005, 07:00:20 pm »

I have pretty good luck with the following set-up. I cut some white foam-core board into two "T" shapes where the vertical portion of the T is 2.5 x 3" to fit the back of my 550EX speedlights and the horizontal portion is 15" wide by 12" high - probably larger than needed, but the foam core is light. A large rubber band holds it in place on the speedlight. I have two lightweight portable stands that go to 8 feet high and with the camera around my neck with a remote transmitter, I can grab and set the speedlights where I want and fire away, adjusting the angles and ratios between the two lights as appropriate. I put this set-up together to address my wife's complaint that I never took pictures at family gatherings. It's also proven itself in spaces such as a gallery with high dark ceilings.

yasooo · « **Reply #10 on:** February 22, 2005, 08:06:06 am »

In a situation like this, especially in a gym where the ceiling is too high to bounce any light, you can't do much better. If you dislike the dark backgrounds, try to shoot the people near a wall or some place that won't go so dark. The other alternative is to go to a higher ISO which can create noise in digital cameras, or to use a slower shutter speed. I usually try to use the slowest shutter speed possible with the flash but very often I would need to shoot at 1/15 sec or slower for the ambient light to look good. This causes the risk of camera blurr if you're handholding, and the subject can also move causing a blurr. If you use a monopod, you can probably get away with 1/15 or 1/8 shutter, but just make sure you press the shutter when everyone is still. The success rate is not that high when you shoot a large number of people at slow sync, so if you can move them over by a wall, that would probably be the easier solution. By the way, that photo you posted isn't as bad as you think considering the situation. I would have just moved around so that the maple leaf boy wouldn't look so obstructive in the picture. If you just had him turn to his side, that might've done the trick.

Ben Rubinstein · « **Reply #11 on:** February 22, 2005, 02:22:07 pm »

High ISO, set the camera to AV or P and shoot away, if the sutter speed gets too low then up the ISO. The flash will fire as a fill flash and you should have nice even foreground/background exposure.

paullantz · « **Reply #12 on:** February 22, 2005, 11:28:59 pm »

now this is over my head but tempted to ask anyway...
what kind of strobes let you set the colour temperature?
I mean stuff that you can carry around on a flash bracket?
I have really noticed the difference between flash colour and room colour and this seems a good way to make fill flash not so conscipuous.

howard smith · « **Reply #13 on:** February 23, 2005, 08:51:10 am »

"a free packet of Rosco gel swatches" The Jungle Book? Never understood the name.

howard smith · « **Reply #14 on:** February 16, 2005, 10:48:25 am »

Firdt thought is to switch to manual exposure and open the lens and/or slow the shutter to let the ambient light illuminate the background.

Slow shutter speed can cause a dark halo around the subjects in the foreground which may or may not be attractive to you.

Large aperture will put more backgound out of focus.

If the right amount of flash is used, the background can be made lighter than no flash but still dark enough to seperate the subjects in the foreground.

paullantz · « **Reply #15 on:** February 16, 2005, 11:34:06 am »

I live a long way from a camera store and the shots are not important so buying a big piece of glass is a dubious idea although awfully tempting.
Probably will get a 580ex at some point.
I am going to take a few more pictures at similar site today and I think I will open up lens as much as possible, shoot RAW so I can do a bit more with exposure and white balance (roomlight gives a yellow cast).
This is one picture I am not happy with, might try to do something to make the person on right side's hair a bit more distinct from the background.

paullantz · « **Reply #16 on:** February 17, 2005, 12:10:55 am »

I went to a different school today, totally different gym. Lighter walls and incredibly bright and white overhead lighting.
Realized again value of shooting RAW pictures so I could play with exposure and white balance. Also used pocket bouncer on flash which seemed to work pretty well. I compensated a bit too much at times for it (one full stop was too much) but does seem a useful hunk of plastic.
If I was doing this seriously, I think I would probably leave flash for fill only in such a bright gym with appropriate attention to handling white clothing in the foreground.
In ideal world with endless resources a camera with lower noise than 10D and a wide open lens would might be the best thing.
In a darker large room, without additional lighting, I think it would just come down to composition and sometimes blurred backgrounds.
I appreciate the suggestions I got today, amazing how fast people respond.

Hank · « **Reply #17 on:** February 22, 2005, 05:37:21 pm »

It's a 3-step process for me: Meter the ambient light; balance strobe color temp to ambient; then, adjust strobe for desired fill. If the light's too low for your needs and the camera's high-ISO performance, then you are facing spotlighted subjects against a dark background. When the strobe and ambient are similar in intensity, light color differences will be very apparent (gel the strobe to match ambient, then white balance the camera in order to avoid this). If you want to sculpt you subject while reducing shadows, adjust fill to match your needs. If ambient and strobe are the same intensity you won't have shadows, but your subjects may look pretty flat.

Author Topic: Shooting in large rooms (Read 3722 times)