Hasselblad H3D rumors

[Kitty]

So you can't use H4D with H3D because of unique ID.
This is not very good for H3D or H4D user. If any H3D body has problem, how to find the spare body?
Have to wait until Hasselblad headquarter send the the new body which match the same unique ID?

It would take weeks for that.

If the unique ID is so special calibrate for each digitalback, then how I can be sure that the new body will match my digital back?

I am really like H3DII files and plan to get one. But Hasselblad always realease new model which not compatible with old version is really scary me.
H1D, H2D, H3D, H4D not compatible to its own version.
Even H3D body require unique ID for itself. This is really not good for user.

kitty

[Paul_Claesson_HasselbladUS]

So you can't use H4D with H3D because of unique ID.
This is not very good for H3D or H4D user. If any H3D body has problem, how to find the spare body?
Have to wait until Hasselblad headquarter send the the new body which match the same unique ID?

It would take weeks for that.

If the unique ID is so special calibrate for each digitalback, then how I can be sure that the new body will match my digital back?

I am really like H3DII files and plan to get one. But Hasselblad always realease new model which not compatible with old version is really scary me.
H1D, H2D, H3D, H4D not compatible to its own version.
Even H3D body require unique ID for itself. This is really not good for user.

kitty

Kitty

I took the liberty of copy and paste from my previous reply to this thread.

Option II
Place an order with your Hasselblad dealer for X number of backup bodies. Each H3D body will be calibrated to the H3D digital magazine. This order from the dealer will be placed with the Hasselblad factory and when completed the kit will be shipped to Hasselblad and in turn the dealer for pick up by the customer.

Hasselblad will be glad to arrange as many backup H3D bodies as you desire, each calibrated to your digital magazine. Therefore, should you encounter an issue with one body then simply exchange one H3D body for another and continue shooting and you rest easy that the integrated system you've invested in is working as designed and still utilize Ultrafocus.

You can contact me via PM and I can provide a dealer who can assist you.

My contact info:
Paul Claesson
e-mail: pclaesson@hasselbladusa
973-227-7320 x209

[TimothyHyde]

So you can't use H4D with H3D because of unique ID.
This is not very good for H3D or H4D user. If any H3D body has problem, how to find the spare body?
Have to wait until Hasselblad headquarter send the the new body which match the same unique ID?

Why do people have such a hard time understanding that this is an integrated system, which is why some of us chose it?  Photographers don't complain about their inability to remove the sensor ("back") on their D3x and put it on the backup D2x ("body").

[Dustbak]

I can understand why there is some reluctance for accepting the inability to combine the of use newer models with older ones. This is kind of my dilemma.

I have 2 H2F's with CF39MS. I can combine whatever back I want with whatever camera. I used to use other types of cameras as well but no longer so now I think I might be upgrading to 50MS (or 60MS if it comes).  When I do, will I be keeping one or more of the other ones (back & body)? Do I sell them both?

I don't want to end up with just one back even if I have 2 bodies. No use in having a spare body if the DSP of the back stops working. Do I need 4 bodies and 2 new backs? This makes upgrading a staggering costly affair even within the same system.

Interbrand compatibility would have meant a less higher investment for me. In a world where everyone wants more for less. Where there is a lot of pressure on budgets this idea makes me holding off any investment in a H4D50ms or the likes of it.

For the moment I have more than I need actually, any additional purchase would fall into the range of stuff I would like to have. I think I stick with light at this point in time  (or buy the small format version of the D3x when it comes).

[aaanorton]

Erick

I think this was already answered by David numerous times. The H3D/H3DII is an integrated DSLR. The H3D digital magazine is calibrated to a specific H3D body. This calibration takes place at the factory in Denmark. The Focus Calibration ID is indicated the Menu on the digital magazine. Menu > Settings > About > "Focus calib. ID" third line down.

Option I
The photographer that already owns an H3D/H3DII can purchased any number of spare H3D bodies that they wish. A photographer will need to make arrangements via their dealer to ship the existing H3D/H3DII body and digital magazine to the factory. This is done because the sensor in the digital magazine needs to be calibrated to each individual H3D/H3DII body purchased.

or

Option II
Place an order with your Hasselblad dealer for X number of backup bodies. Each H3D body will be calibrated to the H3D digital magazine. This order from the dealer will be placed with the Hasselblad factory and when completed the kit will be shipped to Hasselblad and in turn the dealer for pick up by the customer.

For reference to Ultrafocus previously posted to LL, go here.

Paul Claesson

Absolutely incorrect.

The H3D 'body part' has the ability to power the digital magazine / 'sensor part' the H2 does not.

Plus each H3D is custom focus calibrated in the factory, hence you will see 'Focus Calib. ID' in the System Status menu. This is a unique adjustment for every camera based on the individual AF system of each camera.

I have of course mentioned this here on this forum many times before.

It seems like this focus calibration would be a better feature if it were user set-able. And even then, what about when someone needs to run out and rent a body? Or when they need to rent a back and 2 bodies for a job? Couldn't there be a function for setting a "base" value to accommodate and unmatched pair? Or better yet a "low, medium or high" system could be options to help photographers target their focus in a pinch.
Is this focus calibration a free service at Hasselblad? It just seems to me like Option I and II above involve spending more or more and more money to get into this system. And how does the H4 fit into this matrix? Would I be able to buy a H4D-xx and have a H3 body calibrated to that new back?

David,
I know that the back-power feature was added and imagine that the body had to be reworked some to get that working. But other than that we're still talking about firmware feature updates. This one power feature seems to me to be a steep price to pay for an evolutionary upgrade that renders your previous investments obsolete. As I mentioned above, a user-selectable calibration range would have provided a solid (if not perfect) backup strategy. I really don't understand this feature-crippling-through-software approach.

Guys,
If you don't want to repeat yourself, then by all means don't. My feelings won't be hurt!

[Dick Roadnight]

Why do people have such a hard time understanding that this is an integrated system, which is why some of us chose it?  Photographers don't complain about their inability to remove the sensor ("back") on their D3x and put it on the backup D2x ("body"). being

The way things are going they may contemplate shipping the backs permanently attached to the cameras - less wear and tear, less cost to manufacture, less dust ... avoids users being able to take even better pictures by putting their backs on view cameras, increased sales of the HTS adaptor, and increases dealer's profits for cleaning sensors... how often do you take the back off yours?

The benefits of a modular professional system normally include:

Easy upgrade path for any component (e.g. new back on old body, without return to dealer)
Interchangeability between components manufactured decades apart

Are the backs more reliable than the Camera bodies? should we all carry complete spare systems? (I intend to buy a 39 Mpx back for my ELD/flexbody system... so I would then have a complete spare system for about £8k)

[John.Williams]

The way things are going they may contemplate shipping the backs permanently attached to the cameras - less wear and tear, less cost to manufacture, less dust ... avoids users being able to take even better pictures by putting their backs on view cameras, increased sales of the HTS adaptor, and increases dealer's profits for cleaning sensors... how often do you take the back off yours?

The benefits of a modular professional system normally include:

Easy upgrade path for any component (e.g. new back on old body, without return to dealer)
Interchangeability between components manufactured decades apart

Are the backs more reliable than the Camera bodies? should we all carry complete spare systems? (I intend to buy a 39 Mpx back for my ELD/flexbody system... so I would then have a complete spare system for about £8k)

There are benefits to modular design, but it is not without cost;

Since modular design by definition must maintain compatibility of existing equipment to function, it must forfeit some technology gain that has developed since the initial design of the system components. This is exacerbated when certain components of the modular system are unable to accept any technology advances and begin restricting the system from offering solutions that compete with newer systems using advanced materials, processes, and functions.

This may explain why do not see modular design in modern 35mm DSLRs, Operating Systems and Applications, and now medium-format camera systems. Advances in technology solve problems that are difficult or impossible to address with conventional tools leading to HD-video in a Canon 5D, 16-bit editing in Photoshop CS4, and a motion sensor in the Hasselblad H4D.

There are practical benefits to a system that can adopt and apply advances in technology. In the field, I have upgraded firmware in many Hasselblad H-systems (H1, H2, H3D, H2F) enabling these systems to do more than when originally purchased. Field firmware upgrades (another advancement) are not just for the H3D - firmware updates that are beneficial for all Hasselblad H-system owners (mirror delay, battery status, re-program user/ae-l/mirror-up/stop-down buttons for custom tasks.)

Again, better to show you to remove all doubt.

John

[vjbelle]

Absolutely incorrect.

The H3D 'body part' has the ability to power the digital magazine / 'sensor part' the H2 does not.

Plus each H3D is custom focus calibrated in the factory, hence you will see 'Focus Calib. ID' in the System Status menu.  This is a unique adjustment for every camera based on the individual AF system of each camera.

I have of course mentioned this here on this forum many times before.

I just don't get that so few photographers on LL seem to think that this is a big deal..... I mean, focus is pretty critical to the outcome of an image.  I hear all sorts of complaining about DSLRs not focusing properly and yet I've never heard from anyone on LL saying that they were pleased/happy/glad that Hasselblad took the extra time and effort to deliver a product that is guaranteed to focus properly.  I've been there done that with my P45 and H2 combination that had to go back to Phase for calibration.  They did go the extra mile.... got my camera back to me in a very short period of time and made it so it focuses where I want it to focus....all of the time, every time.  Hasselblad does this automatically and as far as I'm concerned they deserve a degree of credit for recognizing and mitigating focus errors.  I don't know how this could be done without matching/calibrating all of the components.

Now if they would just have a program to lure Phase owners into the fold they might really get my attention

[Greg Hollmann]

Now if they would just have a program to lure Phase owners into the fold they might really get my attention

Hasselblad does have a trade-in program for, not only Hasselblad owners, but also for Phase, Leaf and Sinar.  Let me know what you have and what you would like to move into and I can tell you what the trade-in value is.

Greg

[stevenf]

Hasselblad does have a trade-in program for, not only Hasselblad owners, but also for Phase, Leaf and Sinar.  Let me know what you have and what you would like to move into and I can tell you what the trade-in value is.

Greg

Hi Greg

I posted this question for Paul Claesson - maybe you know the answer.

Thanks Steven

I am considering purchasing the Hasselblad H3d-50 II - I noticed that Hasselblad is offering a free upgrade to the H4D-50. Does this mean a new camera and a new 50 MP Back with the new LCD? Or would one get a new camera and keep the old back from the H3dII-50 and not get the new LCD?

Reading on the Hasselblad website it seems to indicate a free upgrade to the H4d-50 - which to me would mean a new back with the new LCD.

Thanks Steven

www.friedmanphoto.com

[Kitty]

Why do people have such a hard time understanding that this is an integrated system, which is why some of us chose it?  Photographers don't complain about their inability to remove the sensor ("back") on their D3x and put it on the backup D2x ("body").

I thought you can't compare D3x with MFDB. It is different story.

I am using 3 MFDB with 4 H bodies. You know no tool last forever.
It needs reparing and upgrade sooner or later.

If I were using 2 H3D with 4 bodies.
How to upgrade to H4D? It would cost a fortune.

I used to have H1D and Hasselblad trade in is not good.
The whole H1D set (DB, body, prism, 80mm lens, imagebank) trade-in could not get even one H zoom lens.

Don't get me wrong. I love H bodies and H lens quality so much that I still use H system.
But the compatibility with the old system is really scary me.

kitty

[flashfredrikson]

Why do people have such a hard time understanding that this is an integrated system, which is why some of us chose it?  Photographers don't complain about their inability to remove the sensor ("back") on their D3x and put it on the backup D2x ("body").

In our studio, we got seven H2 bodys and 4 PhaseOne Backs for the H System. Why so many backup Hs? Because nothing ever goes to the repair shop more often then the h system, the constantly break down. So on an average job I'll carry three bodies and two backs with me. So if again one of the Hs goes down, I'll just use another one, and then the next one. The broken Hs go to Hasselblad for repair and turn around time is weeks, not a day or two, so luckily there are some more bodies in the safe to use or I can easily rent a spare body when away from the homebase, all around the world. With the H3 or 4 that would mean we would need even more backup bodies as each of them is dedicated to one back only. That is a deal braker. And we are constantly reconsidering changing over to the H3 now 4 (phase ain't perfect either but that's an other story), but under those conditions it just won't happen.

That´s just not a problem with canon or nikon, just bring to bodys to the job, if both go down you just rent or buy another one and keep shooting.

my 2c

martin

[Kitty]

In our studio, we got seven H2 bodys and 4 PhaseOne Backs for the H System. Why so many backup Hs? Because nothing ever goes to the repair shop more often then the h system, the constantly break down. So on an average job I'll carry three bodies and two backs with me. So if again one of the Hs goes down, I'll just use another one, and then the next one. The broken Hs go to Hasselblad for repair and turn around time is weeks, not a day or two, so luckily there are some more bodies in the safe to use or I can easily rent a spare body when away from the homebase, all around the world. With the H3 or 4 that would mean we would need even more backup bodies as each of them is dedicated to one back only. That is a deal braker. And we are constantly reconsidering changing over to the H3 now 4 (phase ain't perfect either but that's an other story), but under those conditions it just won't happen.

That´s just not a problem with canon or nikon, just bring to bodys to the job, if both go down you just rent or buy another one and keep shooting.

my 2c

martin

Agree. Today one of our H2 just die during location shooting.  
Miror problem ID 17:1.
Dealer here said body must go back to factory for repairing at least one month.
This is the 3rd time bodies got problem on location.

kitty

[derekhsu]

Agree. Today one of our H2 just die during location shooting.  
Miror problem ID 17:1.
Dealer here said body must go back to factory for repairing at least one month.
This is the 3rd time bodies got problem on location.

kitty

Hi Kitty,

Could you share your Body Counter usage when encountering the Mirror Problem?

Regards
Derek

[Khun_K]

Agree. Today one of our H2 just die during location shooting.  
Miror problem ID 17:1.
Dealer here said body must go back to factory for repairing at least one month.
This is the 3rd time bodies got problem on location.

kitty

I have little romance, but not nightmares as yours with the H body.  I don't like the overall design but I can accept it as a camera. I think Hasselblad try to make the camera like a computer rather than making the cmaera a great camera. But overall there is some sense between the integration they are selling, but the truth is, if they are open to 3rd party backs with their communication data, it would be a truly nicer camera. Contax 645 is still the best classic camera, the design is still currnt, looks nicer than almost of the production camera today, regardless the format. It's sad it is discontinued, I use the Contax for over 10 years and to one point have to eventually part way with it if I want to continue to be up to date with some latest technogy and want to have a younger body, but saying that, it continue to produce astonishing images. Hy6 is the closest or might be as good as Contax 645, hopefully it somehow survive, and open to everyone.
The H system, close its own customers inside rather than closing the other customers outside, at least it is how I see it. The H users have no chice, but the customers outside have more choices, although choices today are quite limited.  I am lucky so far not having much issue wiht my H system (H3D and H2+P backs), hopefully won't. But the fact they can't authorized the user to self calibrate the focus and can't allow generations of back & camera work together is absurd.

Regards, K

[Dick Roadnight]

... each H3D is custom focus calibrated in the factory, hence you will see 'Focus Calib. ID' in the System Status menu.  This is a unique adjustment for every camera based on the individual AF system of each camera.

The problem will not go away ...pros (who would be in the market to buy several systems) want interchangeability.

Could you not incorporate three screws (or shims) into each back and body to allow users (or local support) to calibrate to a standard, so all bodies can fit all backs? This would be like a miniature tilt/focus adjuster... or why not build a T/S adaptor into each camera (yes - I remembered, this is because the lenses do not have enough image circle, and they have developed the T/S adaptor to overcome this, and how many people would use it?) You would need a smarter AF system that would not need the mechanics to adjust to it.

On the H3D I usually end up using manual focus ...can you buy a simple manual 60Mpx digiback (not designed for AF, DSLRs or point-and shoot) for a view camera?

... but they tell us that AF is better on the H4D.

[ixpressraf]

Well...., you could also use simply a spare H3 body, one from a H3d-39 when using a h3d-31 with broken body. Although focus calibration will be very powerfull to some applications, it will be barable noticable in daily shoot. I have one of my bosdies used by an other photographer and it seems that it works perfect, after shooting 20000 shots still no complanes about unsharp images. I only hope my body will return soon because i now only have a back without a body :-(

[Kitty]

Hi Kitty,

Could you share your Body Counter usage when encountering the Mirror Problem?

Regards
Derek

This is the 2nd dead counter 63525. Can't remember counter of the 1st dead.
The other body died around 30,000-40,000.

kitty

[Paul_Claesson_HasselbladUS]

Hi Greg

I posted this question for Paul Claesson - maybe you know the answer.

Thanks Steven

I am considering purchasing the Hasselblad H3d-50 II - I noticed that Hasselblad is offering a free upgrade to the H4D-50. Does this mean a new camera and a new 50 MP Back with the new LCD? Or would one get a new camera and keep the old back from the H3dII-50 and not get the new LCD?

Reading on the Hasselblad website it seems to indicate a free upgrade to the H4d-50 - which to me would mean a new back with the new LCD.

Thanks Steven

www.friedmanphoto.com

Steven

Any H3DII50 purchased after September 25, 2009 can be upgraded to an H4D50 at no charge.
This means you will receive a new H4D camera body with your same back. The body and digital magazine will need to be calibrated for Ultrafocus at the factory.

[Willow Photography]

Steven

Any H3DII50 purchased after September 25, 2009 can be upgraded to an H4D50 at no charge.
This means you will receive a new H4D camera body with your same back. The body and digital magazine will need to be calibrated for Ultrafocus at the factory.

So what you should have said, if I understand you wright, is NO new LCD
with the upgrade.

Then it is NOT an upgrade from H3DII50 to a H4D50 as you advertise.
It is an upgrade from H3D to a H4D with an "old" back.

Why not say it as it is???

And why no answer to my question on what kind of file is viewed on
the new and better LCD?

If it is the same unprocessed file as now, it will not be any better to judge
color and sharpness!!