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Author Topic: Do I go for Canon TS-E 24mm II or look at cambo/arca or... dare I say MFDB?  (Read 13732 times)

stevesanacore

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Do I go for Canon TS-E 24mm II or look at cambo/arca or... dare I say MFDB?
« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2009, 10:43:01 am »

Quote from: Jim2
I am unfamiliar with the MF gear with view camera. Are they not weather resistance? e.g. rain / snow / humidity


I think the Sinar recommendation maybe the best one but I don't think it takes the place of a good set of optics on your 5D2. There will be times when the 5D2 and high quality Canon lenses, (like the 17 and 24 shift among others), will get you photos that you could never get with a slower more cumbersome system. I'll be almost everyone carrying a view camera in the field has a 35mm dslr or Leica M8 in their bag too.

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Kirk Gittings

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« Reply #21 on: September 09, 2009, 11:21:01 am »

Quote from: stevesanacore
I think the Sinar recommendation maybe the best one but I don't think it takes the place of a good set of optics on your 5D2. There will be times when the 5D2 and high quality Canon lenses, (like the 17 and 24 shift among others), will get you photos that you could never get with a slower more cumbersome system. I'll be almost everyone carrying a view camera in the field has a 35mm dslr or Leica M8 in their bag too.


Having made my living for almost thirty years shooting architecture and landscape with a 4x5 view camera and film before switching to DSLR, I find a Canon 5DII and t/s lenses to be nothing short of liberating. I am more productive and willing to take risks that I would not bother with shooting 4x5 film. I don't find FF DSLR to be competitive with scanned 4x5 film on large prints but my clients and my art rarely requires prints over 16x20. Also FWIW a used 4x5 right now is dirt cheap compared to MFD and in tandem with a quality DSLR-all bases are covered.

Has anyone been able to find the new Canon T/S lenses in the US (with US warranty)? I can't.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2009, 12:37:56 pm by Kirk Gittings »
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JeffKohn

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« Reply #22 on: September 09, 2009, 11:43:35 am »

Quote from: jland
"Rear tilt" can be accomplished using a camera that only has front tilt. Tilting the rear standard on a view camera simply changes the angle between lens and image planes and between the image plane and the ground. On a camera that only has front tilt you can angle the image plane relative to the ground using the tripod head, and then apply front tilt and downward shift to put the lens plane and axis where they would be as if you had rear tilt. The amount of tilt and shift you have at the lens may limit how much "rear" tilt you can apply, though.
I had thought it was possible in theory, although I hadn't mentally worked out the exact procedure that would be required (and my T/S lenses currently have the movements on opposite axis so I cannot try this). It sounds more cumbersome than rear tilt, though; and I have a feeling with DSLR T/S lenses you're going to run out of image circle pretty quick (one of the big advantages of rear tilts is they don't need as large of an image circle as front tilts).
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Dick Roadnight

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« Reply #23 on: September 09, 2009, 01:09:22 pm »

Quote from: Kirk Gittings
Having made my living for almost thirty years shooting architecture and landscape with a 4x5 view camera and film before switching to DSLR, I find a Canon 5DII and t/s lenses to be nothing short of liberating. I am more productive and willing to take risks that I would not bother with shooting 4x5 film. I don't find FF DSLR to be competitive with scanned 4x5 film on large prints but my clients and my art rarely requires prints over 16x20. Also FWIW a used 4x5 right now is dirt cheap compared to MFD and in tandem with a quality DSLR-all bases are covered.
Do you never encounter situations where you would appreciate a full range of movements?
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asf

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« Reply #24 on: September 09, 2009, 01:42:22 pm »

Quote from: Kirk Gittings
Has anyone been able to find the new Canon T/S lenses in the US (with US warranty)? I can't.

Hard to get but I've had for a couple months (with US warranty). Worth the money. The new 24 is a huge improvement on the old.
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clawery

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« Reply #25 on: September 09, 2009, 03:07:33 pm »

Quote from: Jim2
I am unfamiliar with the MF gear with view camera. Are they not weather resistance? e.g. rain / snow / humidity


Jim,

I'm not sure where you are located, but I'd be glad to help you out and guide you with your decision making.  We are a Phase One / Leaf dealer based in the Southeast that carries  Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Canon and several other lighting and photo-related lines.  I can give you some insight into most of the cameras and systems that were mentioned in this thread.  I can also give you the names of several of our clients that are utilizing these bodies/ backs and their honest opinions of them.

http://www.captureintegration.com/our-company/our-clients/
 

Chris Lawery
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Jim2

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« Reply #26 on: September 09, 2009, 05:53:00 pm »

Quote from: Kirk Gittings
Having made my living for almost thirty years shooting architecture and landscape with a 4x5 view camera and film before switching to DSLR, I find a Canon 5DII and t/s lenses to be nothing short of liberating. I am more productive and willing to take risks that I would not bother with shooting 4x5 film. I don't find FF DSLR to be competitive with scanned 4x5 film on large prints but my clients and my art rarely requires prints over 16x20. Also FWIW a used 4x5 right now is dirt cheap compared to MFD and in tandem with a quality DSLR-all bases are covered.

I hear what you're saying. However, you're comparing film vs digital so yes I understand how you would not want to be trigger happy with a film camera. With film it has to be perfect before you click it. I would imagine that with MFDB this won't be a problem.

How much more bothersome or difficult is it to carry and set up a digital view camera for landscape work? We know it's bigger and heavier
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Kirk Gittings

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« Reply #27 on: September 09, 2009, 06:13:31 pm »

Quote from: Dick Roadnight
Do you never encounter situations where you would appreciate a full range of movements?

Not really. Shift and tilt was all I ever used 99% of the time on the view camera. The wild contorted movements you see in ads for view cameras were never practical for landscape or architecture IME. However with the DSLR T/S lenses I do oftentimes find the axis to be off from what I need and I am not willing to open the lens to fix it in the field. Canon's new lenses will fix that problem.
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Guillermo Luijk

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« Reply #28 on: September 09, 2009, 06:36:39 pm »


24mm TS-E II vs I.

All samples © Carlos Casariego:












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Jim2

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« Reply #29 on: September 09, 2009, 09:58:42 pm »

Quote from: clawery
Jim,

I'm not sure where you are located
Gold Coast, Australia
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Jim2

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« Reply #30 on: September 09, 2009, 10:48:18 pm »

Quote from: uaiomex
Jim:
Post the same in Large  Sensor MF back and let's read a different story (I guess)
Is cross posting OK in this forum though?
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Dick Roadnight

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« Reply #31 on: September 10, 2009, 06:21:40 am »

Quote from: Jim2
How much more bothersome or difficult is it to carry and set up a digital view camera for landscape work? We know it's bigger and heavier
A 10 * 8 folding camera with one small lens is relatively light and compact - how heavy, how big?

An MFDVC (MediumFormat Digital View Camera) (e.g. Sinar F3) system is, I believe, no heavier than a 10 * 8 Camera system, particularly if your 10* 8 system includes long lenses, which weigh kilos each.

Set-up is easier if you cary a laptop and use live view... which you would not if weight was an issue.

You will need a very good loupe to focus on the small ground glass  screen - I think most adaptor manufacturers supply them.
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Jim2

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« Reply #32 on: September 10, 2009, 06:27:42 am »

Quote from: Dick Roadnight
Set-up is easier if you cary a laptop and use live view... which you would not if weight was an issue.

You will need a very good loupe to focus on the small ground glass  screen - I think most adaptor manufacturers supply them.
My understanding is that Phase One backs have Live View which can be used for focusing (I'd imagine similar to Canon's live view with 10x zoom - which is what I currently use for focusing). Is this correct? All in all the set up will only be slightly heavier (Cambo RS 1000 weighs 2kg + lens another 1kg + DB ??kg) probably smaller compared to the 24-105 zoom I currently use on Canon anyway.

The Phase One back is 'weather resistant' AFAIK so the only risk is on the lens / view camera.
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Dick Roadnight

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« Reply #33 on: September 10, 2009, 06:37:05 am »

Quote from: uaiomex
Jim:
Post the same in Large Sensor MF back and let's read a different story (I guess)
Unfortunately, in the large sensor forum you would find two or three regular posters trying to convince you that MFD systems a are just status symbols, and a waste of money, and that you could achieve similar results more cost-effectively using pan-and-stitch with a small DSLR... but, for landscapes, they do have a point.
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Dick Roadnight

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« Reply #34 on: September 10, 2009, 06:44:32 am »

Quote from: Jim2
My understanding is that Phase One backs have Live View which can be used for focusing (I'd imagine similar to Canon's live view with 10x zoom - which is what I currently use for focusing). Is this correct? All in all the set up will only be slightly heavier (Cambo RS 1000 weighs 2kg + lens another 1kg + DB ??kg) probably smaller compared to the 24-105 zoom I currently use on Canon anyway.
I am not familiar with Phase one kit, and I have not even used live view on my own system yet, as it has not been implemented (will be in a few days I hope).

On the Hasselblad there is a sharpness graph display.
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uaiomex

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« Reply #35 on: September 10, 2009, 01:40:46 pm »

I've found out that through stitching often my composition suffers and consequently the content. I'd rather sacrifice maximun resolution for content. The other reason is I'm into long exposures and stitching in most instances is out of the question. Wish I could afford a 39mp digiback for my 500CM! - So, for the time being I think is only "L"glass time for me. About the Large sensor forum, in general the bias would be towards MF I believe.
Eduardo

Quote from: Dick Roadnight
Unfortunately, in the large sensor forum you would find two or three regular posters trying to convince you that MFD systems a are just status symbols, and a waste of money, and that you could achieve similar results more cost-effectively using pan-and-stitch with a small DSLR... but, for landscapes, they do have a point.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2009, 01:41:31 pm by uaiomex »
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KevinA

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« Reply #36 on: September 10, 2009, 02:41:25 pm »

Quote from: JeffKohn
A tilt/shift lens can allow you to increase DOF, and the shift can also be used to correct perspective in some compositions. I think they're definitely a useful tool for DSLR landscape and architecture shooters.

But to get that large-format look with the in-your-face foreground and massive depth, you're going to have a hard time because those LF guys are using rear tilts to get that effect. Front tilts have very little affect in perspective, but the same is not true for rear tilts. Tilting back the rear standard really emphasizes the foreground and makes it loom. If you ever get a chance to play around with a view camera give it a try and you'll see what an advantage they have for that type of composition.

Unfortunately even a lot of the "digital" view cameras sacrifice rear tilts in the name of size/weight and precision. For instance the Arca-Swiss M-Line 2 only has front tilt/swing and rear shift/rise/fall. Which is still much more flexible than a tilt/shift lens on a DSLR, though.

You can tilt the camera then straighten up with a tilt/shift lens. Normally with a T/S the idea is keep the film plane upright, hence the shift to get the top of the building in shot with straight sides. Nothing to stop you tilting the camera for effect then recomposing with the tilts and shifts plus stopping down to get the D o Field.

Kevin.
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stevesanacore

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« Reply #37 on: September 11, 2009, 06:36:44 pm »

Quote from: Jim2
My understanding is that Phase One backs have Live View which can be used for focusing (I'd imagine similar to Canon's live view with 10x zoom - which is what I currently use for focusing). Is this correct? All in all the set up will only be slightly heavier (Cambo RS 1000 weighs 2kg + lens another 1kg + DB ??kg) probably smaller compared to the 24-105 zoom I currently use on Canon anyway.

The Phase One back is 'weather resistant' AFAIK so the only risk is on the lens / view camera.


I believe the Phase one LCD is very low resolution compared with the Canon 5D which is quite usable for focusing and composing with a loupe. My vote is for the 5D and the new 17 and 24 shift lenses.
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JeffKohn

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« Reply #38 on: September 11, 2009, 06:42:45 pm »

I didn't think any of the medium-format backs supported live-view, except for tethering. 1 or 2 fps on a crappy low-res LCD doesn't count, you can't focus that way.
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Jim2

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« Reply #39 on: September 11, 2009, 09:48:11 pm »

Quote from: stevesanacore
I believe the Phase one LCD is very low resolution compared with the Canon 5D which is quite usable for focusing and composing with a loupe. My vote is for the 5D and the new 17 and 24 shift lenses.
Does 5D2 have a better screen than 1ds3? Perhaps I should wait for 1ds4 + cambo X2 would be a good set up, but there's still that nagging feeling that the DR won't be as good as MFDB no matter how hard they try.
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