Leica Digilux 2

[BJL]

$1800, useless finder, slow AF, 6 seconds between shots...

Here we go again: an experienced professional photographer tests a camera for a significant period of time, writes a review that sounds very balanced in that is talks significantly of both strengths and weaknesses: in response, someone who almost certainly has no experience with the camera selectively quotes a few negative aspects, at least one of them rather out of context (it is not 6 seconds betwen shots in the most common, JPEG output mode), ignores any favourable aspects, and pretends that this is a fairer assessment.

[BJL]

So discussion is limited to contributions by experienced pros who have extensive knowledge of everything they pick up ?

David,

   I was not saying that you have no right to an opinion, I was simply disagreeing with the opinion that you expressed, and the poor style of argument used to support it, and in particular characterising it as the sort of ill-informed cynicism of which internet discussion forums suffer a huge surfeit.

    As to your latest comment about "JPEG only": I am sure that some people want RAW output and want it with less than a six second wait, so I have no disagreement that this is not the camera for them. On the other hand, I do not think that it is the fatal, damning flaw that you seem to think it is. There are some people including me who almost never take two consecutive photographs within anything close to a six second interval, and perhaps many people who continue to use totally un-automated cameras like Leicas are amongst them; for such photographers, the RAW delay is probably an annoyance but not a major problem.

[David Mantripp]

It certainly looks like it has the potential to kick the Digilux 2 off the field...   but can Cosina really do what Leica initially at least said was impossible ?  If they can then it is actually going to do more for Leica's survival than any of this sorry series of dressed up consumer digicams they've been knocking out with Panasonic.

[Sean Reid]

I also meant to mention in my last post that the lens is not "badge engineered".  Certainly it was made in Japan by Panasonic or a Japanese supplier but Leica clearly had a hand in its design and it is outstanding - the best lens, in fact, that I've ever seen on a small sensor camera.  Given it's performance, it doesn't matter a bit that it wasn't produced directly by Leica in Germany.

Sean Reid

[Bob Stevenson]

Masatoshi,

Why do you ask this question?

At the recent 'Focus' show here in the Uk the Leica team were making big emphasis on "the Leica lens in the Digilux" and my impression was that they certainly thought this was the case.  Also the Uk sales literature states that the lens is; a "Leica DC Vario-Summicron".

If this information is untrue/incorrect then that would infringe the 'trade discription act' as in this context the 'Leica' and 'Summicron' names are being used as an indication to potential buyers of quality  and origin of design.

[David Mantripp]

$1800, useless finder, slow AF, 6 seconds between shots...  oh, but it's got a badge-engineered Leica lens and it looks a bit like an M6, so its a great camera.

Come on, this is crazy.  Will we see a review of the Louis Vuitton leather bound version with snakeskin trimmings next ?

Oh, and it looks unintimidating, not very pro... thought that was why pros were complaing about the EOS 300D ?

[dbarthel]

Seems that noone has solved the EVF problem. Everyone that I have tried flat sucks. Too bad, because it seems like an interesting package. I wonder how the new Canon will be in EVF quality. I'm not holding my breath.

Dan

[BryanHansel]

I managed to try one of these in the last week, and expect to take it with me for a couple of days in the next week.  I can't comment on the picture quality, but I found I was less impressed with the camera than the reviewer was.  It seemed awkward to use.  I'm sure I would get used to it, but I was expecting something better.  I'm not sure that I can put my finger on it, but it more like an electronic device than a camera.  I did like the feel of the zoom ring, aperature ring and the focus ring.  
The light meter in the EVF didn't work in real time.  I would turn the shutter speed or whatever and have to take my finger off of the shutter release and press it again to get an update.  I found the real-time histogram and used that instead.

Bryan

[hubell]

Is there a reason why the Leica Digilux 2 can offer a 2.5" LCD, which is I believe is bigger than any other digicam, and perhaps any DSLR? To me, one of the attractive features of a digital camera is the ability to preview the composition and exposure of a photograph on the LCD, but the LCDs on all of the digital cameras I have looked at are just too small in practice. Is it a power thing?

[Jack R]

I rarely shoot more than 1 frame in 6 seconds, but for $1800 I sure as heck expect the ability to do so when the occaision does arise. It's not like this would have dramatically increased the cost of the camera! It's just poor design and an example of someone not understanding what a LOT of customers want.

This will go down as one of the great photographic design blunders. -along with Canon not putting an orientation sensor in the $8K 1Ds.

JackR

[David Mantripp]

Exactly. I mean if it was a custom designed camera, and the buyer specifically said that he didn't need to exploit the camera at best quality more than 1 time every 6 seconds, fine.

I'm not in the market for buying anything at the moment, so it was just a general comment.  But behind it is not reall cynicism (would a cynic buy an Olympus E-1), more sadness that the Leica name is being used in a cynical way.  A pity they can't just take on the challenge of reinventing the Leica brand and rejustifying it's reputation.

I should also shamefacedly thank BJL for not flaming me back. (mumbles)I'm sorry I won't do it again.

[Jack R]

Be sure to check out the Epson R-D1 at Dpreview.
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0403/04031101epsonrd1.asp
Now this could be a great camera!

[QuaqQuao]

I'm a bit conserned about that too (although otherwise
dressed up and ready to shell out for the R-D1).

It may be that Leica was speaking about a full size chip (or
close to full size). Leica doesn't traditionally profilerate as a
part of the group of cameraproducers. They live because they
are special. There is hope that Epson and Cosina threw enough
thought into the design so that it will actually produce good
results. But it isn't a "Leica thing to do", throwing the current
besteseller chip into a M and sell it for a decent prize.
I wouldn't mind, if Leica can survive on their ageold quality
above all else profile, to see a proper Leica M digital. I doubt I
will be able to afford it though.

Any word on when the R-D1 will be ready for sale?
Man I'm excited about this one, if the basic specs of the cam works and there's little or no quality problems with the images, its just what I've been waiting for

[Sean Reid]

Part II, which will be up on the site within the next few days, has quite a few samples photos as well as direct file comparisons with the Canon 10D.

As far as "wanting to like the camera"...no, I just called as I saw it.  It has strengths and weaknesses, like any other camera, including my Canon DSLRs.

Sean Reid

[chrisso]

I'm a bit conserned about that too (although otherwise
dressed up and ready to shell out for the R-D1).

At last I can finally look forward to entering the digital domain. I'm not talking about the Digilux though, but the Epson.
I have $$$ tied up in lenses for my various rangefinder cameras and I've been reluctant to sell them at a loss and shell out for a whole new lens system (let's say Canon).
My only worry is image quality and price. Any rumours or guesses on the price of an RD-1.
I'd guess the price of a digital M body would be in excess of $5,000. Out of the question for me.

[Masatoshi]

...but Leica clearly had a hand in its design...

Not that I disagree, but I would like to know how you come by such information. Is there a particular source that you are quoting?

[boku]

I don't have very strong opinions about this because I was never influenced by the Leica form-factor, but I really wish that article has some accompanying photos. I mean, if it did a week long walk around Daytona Bike Week, what was the outcome?

Despite the design downsides, I will be most interested in the image quality - I look forward to Michael's testing and more importantly, his verbal interpretation of the results. If the results are exceptional, that goes a long way towards reducing the importance of the design flaws mentioned. On the other hand, for me, a flawlessly-designed camera is not desireable if the image is sub-par.

[David Mantripp]

Here we go again - dear old BJL plays forum policeman. Yawn. So discussion is limited to contributions by experienced pros who have extensive knowledge of everything they pick up ?

My impression (am I allowed to have an impression, BJL ?) from reading a number of Panasonic / Leica reviews, is that reviewers desperately WANT to like this camera.   As far as I'm concerned, anybody who thinks that an effective limitation to JPG-only recording is the sort of thing you should have on a $1800 camera, never mind one badged by Leica, for heaven's sake, does not appear to have much in the way of credentials himself.

[BJL]

But behind it is not reall cynicism (would a cynic buy an Olympus E-1), more sadness that the Leica name is being used in a cynical way.

David,

   you have softened my heart by mentioning that you have apparently bought an Olympus E-1! And I can agree with your latest phrasing of your concerns. From what little I know, I would apply Michael Reichmann's phrase "a flawed jewel" to a camera like this, with a frustrating mixture of appealing elements and missed opportunities.

   Still, if I had an unlimited budget, I would be tempted, just for virtues like being the only compact, coat-pocketable camera with the three traditional "on lens" controls that I am comfortable using. When I wanted "RAW speed" or other features it lacks, I would carry the E-1!

   But I would buy the cheaper version with the more accurate Panasonic branding.

[BJL]

... but can Cosina really do what Leica initially at least said was impossible ?

It looks half and half so far. On one hand, using a sensor of only 2/3ds the width and height of the 35mm frame reduces the problem of angular incidence, but on the other hand, they for now rule out the use of many or all of the shortest focal length lenses, so perhaps the problem is still there. If, as I read the vague statements, the Espon-Cosina RF is limited for now to minimum focal lengths of 21mm or even 24mm, that only gives the wide angle coverage of 32mm or 36mm in 35mm format.

(I suspect that there probably really is a reason why not only Leica but also other RF makers like Contax have not tried anything like this!)