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Author Topic: Photo Black or Matte Black for canvas?  (Read 14234 times)

iCanvas

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Photo Black or Matte Black for canvas?
« on: August 21, 2009, 09:59:49 am »

Just wondering whether Photo Black or Matte Black is best for this canvas, that is Epson Premium Satin Canvas.  Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Gar
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KenLane

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Photo Black or Matte Black for canvas?
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2009, 10:19:50 am »

Quote from: iCanvas
Just wondering whether Photo Black or Matte Black is best for this canvas, that is Epson Premium Satin Canvas.  Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Gar

I recently printed on epson premium satin canvas for the first time using a epson 7900.  I went with photo black and the results were stunning.  I did notice that when selecting the paper profile recommended by Epson (watercolor paper-radiant white) that it defaults to matte black, which was easily changed back to photo black.

The Epson paperwork included with the canvas says "Use Matte Black only if you are going to use a protective spray on the canvas. Use Photo Black if you are going to put the print behind glass without the use of a protective spray."

Since this was my first attempt at printing canvas, I went with Photo Black for everything primarily due to this statement " Matte Black will yield a higher D-Max but will easily scuff."  I wasn't interesting in printing something that "will easily scuff".

I'm also interested in see what others have to say to you regarding canvas printing.

Incidentally, the paperwork also recommends a dpi setting and paper feed adjustments for all epson printers series before the 7900 and 9900, so I did not apply a paper feed adjustment.
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iCanvas

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Photo Black or Matte Black for canvas?
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2009, 12:53:31 pm »

I have used both Matte black and Photo black with the Epson Premium Satin Canvas. I think the Matte Black reveals more detail in the shadows.  I use the rolling method with Glamour II for coating on both Photo Black and Matte Black prints and have succeeded with both. I haven't noticed any black on the roller with the Photo Black.

Gar
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bill t.

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Photo Black or Matte Black for canvas?
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2009, 02:00:58 pm »

Just should mention that some canvases that can take Photo black need solvent based sprays, for instance with the original Epson canvas the ink will flake off if you try to roll on water based coating.

I have been interested in trying Epson Premium Satin.  Can anybody compare it to Fredrix 777 or Breathing Color?  And what is the texture like, heavy or smooth?
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pleverington

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Photo Black or Matte Black for canvas?
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2009, 04:28:26 pm »

Is there a profile available for this canvas so that I might look at it in colothink and compare it to others I use?

I believe this canvas was formerly known as premier art water resistant canvas which I have used(I read this on their site). If its the same then it no way comes close to others such as breathing color--but I would easily believe that this is a much improved version from the old premier art stuff if some told me it was. It would be somewhat incredulous if they didn't keep up with the competition. Coat the Photo black too I would recommend. By the by--does anyone really put canvas behind glass? That seems to defeat the purpose doesn't it?

Matte black has a better dmax than photoblack by the way ONLY when you print on matte surfaces. I would think that this satin would give you far better dmax and saturation if you use photoblack ink--even if you coat the matte black(which you should always do). Once coated with glamour II its very much not gonna scuff. That stuff is pretty tough. The gamut and dmax on breathing colors glossy canvas pretty much totally engulfs the coated matte canvases Lyve and chromata white gamuts. By like 15-25% at the darker bottom end it looks like to me. I would target the photoblack and coat it, then send it off to be profiled, this would be the best way to go most likely. The only doubt I have in my perspective is because I have not tried it (unless it is resurrected premier art wrc), but typical satins are usually photoblack papers.

It better be darn good for the price they want for it!

If someone has a profile they could send me or direct me to, I will do some comparisons and let everyone know what I see.

Paul
« Last Edit: August 21, 2009, 05:04:32 pm by pleverington »
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Guigui

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Photo Black or Matte Black for canvas?
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2009, 05:11:30 pm »

Quote from: pleverington
Matte black has a better dmax than photoblack by the way ONLY when you print on matte surfaces. I would think that this satin would give you far better dmax and saturation if you use photoblack ink
Actually I've tested this canvas with both matte and photo black, and matte black did produce a noticeable deeper black. I would not recommend using it though since black areas will not reflect as much light as the other areas, resulting in a strange looking print when observed at an angle.
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pindman

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Photo Black or Matte Black for canvas?
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2009, 06:40:35 pm »

I've printed on Breathing Color Chromata with Matt (Epson 9900) and the results are superb.  (Canvases were varnished)  Now I'm using Lyve, which is even better.  What's really nice... if they don't have a profile for your printer they will make one free!!!  Some of the top high-end printers are using it, and with their personal service you can't beat it.   http://www.breathingcolor.com/bc/catalog/index.php?cPath=300

Paul
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floatcat

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Photo Black or Matte Black for canvas?
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2009, 06:22:43 pm »


While I am satisfied with the prints on Epson Photo Luster my goal is to present my images more as objets d'art than as large photographs.

So I am just starting to print on Epson satin canvas .... my first attempt was with the Photo Black inks loaded in my Epson 7800 using the correct profile.
It had more detail on the darker areas that a similar print on Epson Photo Luster ... but had less saturated color and the blacks weren't as deep .... overall a bit washed out.
My next attempt has been to print using the enhanced matte profile : EMP/PK.  This has seemed to produce beeper blacks & more color saturation.
However, as i write this, the print is still drying .... has anyone tried playing with the wrong profiles?

Also ... Glamour II seems to be the sealant of choice ... any thoughts of sprays such as Sennelier, krylon Presserve-it, or Suregard?

I find That, uncoated, the satin canvas tends to reflect light form all angles.  I have been recommended to spray or roll with a gloss coat first to deepen blacks & saturation, then apply a second matte coat to dull. Any thoughts or experiences?  Will the final coating of matte protectant significantly dull the blacks?

I hesitate to dump ink to convert to Matte Black & matte canvas.  From anyone who has tried both (or any combination of the two) ....  which combination of media produces the best Dmax with rich colors & deep blacks?

I am also interested in feedback about quality fine art papers: matte ink vs photo ink .... bright whites & deep blacks
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jeffjphillips

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Photo Black or Matte Black for canvas?
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2009, 09:31:47 am »

Quote from: floatcat
So I am just starting to print on Epson satin canvas .... my first attempt was with the Photo Black inks loaded in my Epson 7800 using the correct profile.


Floatcat,

Interestingly, you and I are in the exact same predicament. I have a 7800 and just bought my first roll of Epson Premium Canvas Satin. I have PK ink loaded in my 7800.

You mention you used the "correct profile."   What profile did you use?  There is  a profile called "SP7898 PAWRC PK 1440.icc"  available to me. There is also an MK version.

Are these the profiles that you are referring to?

Thanks,

Jeff
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