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Author Topic: Ricoh GR Digital III review?  (Read 12434 times)

svein-frode

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Ricoh GR Digital III review?
« on: July 31, 2009, 04:33:43 am »

Hi Michael. Are you considering doing a review of the new Ricoh GR Digital III?

Like many, I was very dissapointed with the Olympus PEN and am still looking for a take-anywhere-anytime-camera. I've been using the Canon G9 for candid shooting for well over a year and don't like it much. I know many photographers are looking for a non dSLR camera capable of excellent image quality, so I think a review of the Ricoh would be highly appreciated.

Thanks!
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michael

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« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2009, 08:28:00 am »

No, I doubt it.

The GRIII doesn't really interest me. It's simply an evolution of the previous models with not much to make it exciting. Fixed lens (though fast), small sensor and no video.

To my mind the Panasonic Lumix ZS3 (TZ7) is the sweet spot for pocket cameras at the moment. The E-P1 is another Olympus "could-have-been" with substandard autofocus, no viewfinder and it's not even that much smaller than the GH1, which is a far superior camera in every way.

I'm hoping that Panasonic has a new small 4/3 sensor camera before the end of the year.

Michael
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Ben Rubinstein

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Ricoh GR Digital III review?
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2009, 08:39:46 am »

Quote from: michael
I'm hoping that Panasonic has a new small 4/3 sensor camera before the end of the year.

Michael

Not the only one! Samsung are rumoured to be going to production with their new system within a month or two. Although their original mockup showed a G1 lookalike, the bigger sensor and ability to create competition in the range of the EP-1 is still exciting to contemplate.
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svein-frode

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Ricoh GR Digital III review?
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2009, 09:34:26 am »

OK, maybe I'll hold on to my wallet and make due with the G9 until Panasonic share some news. Ricohs are few and far between and I'm unable to get my hands on one for testing.
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PeterT

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Ricoh GR Digital III review?
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2009, 01:00:46 pm »

Quote from: michael
The E-P1 is another Olympus "could-have-been" with substandard autofocus, no viewfinder and it's not even that much smaller than the GH1, which is a far superior camera in every way.
I want a compact camera under $1k that doesn't look like an SLR and doesn't have a tiny sensor. I think the E-P1 is the only choice available right now that doesn't restrict you to one focal length.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2009, 01:02:24 pm by PeterT »
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JeffKohn

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Ricoh GR Digital III review?
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2009, 01:14:39 pm »

Quote from: PeterT
I want a compact camera under $1k that doesn't look like an SLR and doesn't have a tiny sensor. I think the E-P1 is the only choice available right now that doesn't restrict you to one focal length.
I used to think that was what I wanted, too. But now I'm thinking even 4/3 sensor is too big for a truly pocketable camera, and if it's not pocketable I'd just as soon use my DSLR.

I think what I really want is something like the Panny LX3 but with a slightly larger sensor (not as big as 4/3 though).
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PeterT

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« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2009, 02:15:19 pm »

Quote from: JeffKohn
But now I'm thinking even 4/3 sensor is too big for a truly pocketable camera, and if it's not pocketable I'd just as soon use my DSLR.
I'm not looking for a pocketable camera. Not if you are referring to pants pocket.
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DaveCurtis

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Ricoh GR Digital III review?
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2009, 10:07:55 pm »

EP-1 - I just wish it had a view finder! This camera promised some much.


Quote from: PeterT
I want a compact camera under $1k that doesn't look like an SLR and doesn't have a tiny sensor. I think the E-P1 is the only choice available right now that doesn't restrict you to one focal length.
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David Mantripp

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« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2009, 04:55:44 am »

Quote from: DaveDn
EP-1 - I just wish it had a view finder! This camera promised some much.

I really fail to see the point of the E-P1, and I speak as a faithful Olympus customer since the launch of the E-1.  The E-P1 isn't particularly small, has a very limited range of usable lenses, and very compromised viewfinder options. It is pretty though. Designing a true "digital PEN" would have meant having the guts to use a smaller sensor, much along line lines of half-frame 35mm film. But really it's all smoke, mirrors and marketing.  You don't have to look further than an Olympus E-620 to find a far better photographic tool, far better value for money, and not a lot larger.

I'm not sure I agree that comparing it with the GH-1 is fair though. The GH-1 is a highly specialised tool, and a lot more expensive. And the E-P1 is actually available to purchase. Comparing it with the G-1, ok, but then why bother with a G-1 when you can buy an E-620 (staying within the 4/3 world...obviously there are plenty of other choices elsewhere).  If the rumors about the GF-1 are true, then the E-P1 is toast.

It is interesting, though, that there seems to be a high number of E-System owners who also have a Ricoh GRD or GX.  Ricoh are very, very good at designing cameras. Pity about the sensors...
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Lisa Nikodym

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« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2009, 12:32:42 pm »

I thought about a GH1 or E-P1, but I'm waiting to see how the upcoming Samsung turns out:
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0903/09030201...ungnxsystem.asp

APS-C sized sensor in a micro 4/3 like body.  Sounds very promising...

Lisa
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David Mantripp

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« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2009, 03:34:22 pm »

Quote from: nniko
I thought about a GH1 or E-P1, but I'm waiting to see how the upcoming Samsung turns out:
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0903/09030201...ungnxsystem.asp

APS-C sized sensor in a micro 4/3 like body.  Sounds very promising...

Lisa

I rather fear it will be more of the same compromises.  In fact slightly worse, since the sensor is slightly larger (and larger than the Foveon IIRC).

There's an element of Emperor's Clothes about all this - there isn't really a lot of radical thinking going on here, or at least a lot less than the marketing people would have you believe.  I'd like to see a company have the guts to try a really radical idea, like sacrifice sensor size for genuine portability. The only company I can see doing that is Ricoh, quite honestly.  And I doubt they have the resources.
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BJL

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« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2009, 04:13:22 pm »

Quote from: drm
I really fail to see the point of the E-P1, and I speak as a faithful Olympus customer since the launch of the E-1.
The problem is perhaps exactly that you, like most of us in this forum, are a satisfied SLR user, and the E-P1 is not primarily aimed at those of us who are comfortable with the bulk of SLR bodies and lenses, and are used to SLR features like wide lens variety, fast AF, and composing one-eyed through a VF rather than two-eyed on a rear screen. We should at least consider the possibility that Olympus and Panasonic are not lying when they talk of this sort of camera as being mainly aimed at people who are used to compact, non-SLR cameras, want the better performance of a larger sensor, but reject the bulk of a DSLRs and their lenses. And daring charges of heresy, I suggest that a great proportion of compact camera users have come to prefer two-eyed composing on the rear screen, and do not care in the slightest about bracing against their foreheads while peering one-eyed through a VF in pursuit of maximum stability. So the absence of a one-eyed VF may be a concern for you and me, but not for most target customers. Also, they are mostly not inclined to buy more than one or two lenses: even the great majority of SLR users do not go beyond two zooms these days. And for those who do want more lens choices, all Four Thirds SLR lenses are usable on the E-P1 via an adaptor, with slowish AF.

There may be a test of my "one-eyed vs two-eyed composition choice" ideas coming: if the rumored Panasonic GF-1 does indeed arrive with an EVF as an optional accessory rather than built-in, I predict that it will sell well, but a great majority of GF-1 customers will not bother to buy the EVF. Then again, Olympus is hinting in interviews of a second Micro Four Thirds model later this year with built-in EVF, and offering the EVF option through a separate model seems better to me than an protruding add-on EVF. I would go for such an EVF model so long as the body stays considerably slimmer and more "jacket-pocketable" than the G-1, GH-1 or any DSLR.


And the persistent talk of the E-P1 not being significantly smaller than a DSLR is almost bizarre: look at the side-by-side photos, or the weights. An E-P1 with standard zoom retracted is closer to an LX3 or G10 in size than to a DSLR with standard zoom attached. Perhaps this size complaint is because so many men have the idea that a camera is only "usefully small" if its fits in a pants pocket. Instead, for many what is more important is the comfort of less weight on the neck strap when carried for hours, or fitting in a jacket-pocket, or a back-back outside pocket, or in a large purse or handbag ... But forum conventional wisdom seems to almost ignore women as camera consumers! Olympus advertising for the E-P1 and recent small SLR models instead shows a strong targeting of women as potential customers.
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David Mantripp

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« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2009, 05:32:09 pm »

Well I dunno. I've yet to see an E-P1 in the wild, and I live in a highly frequented tourist zone. Plenty of tourists of all shapes and sizes from all over the world, most with cameras. And yes, the men tend to carry big heavy DSLRs (quite ridiculous since clearly most of them are never going to use 1% of their capabilities). But I also see men with small cameras, and women with big ones (5Ds are not uncommon). I think photography has become somewhat more equalised these days. Take a look at Flickr - not much evidence there for an overriding "good little woman with her itsy-bitsy pink camera syndrome".  Most women I know who would consider spending an E-P1 amount of money on a camera would realise its shortcomings and buy something else.

But when I'm talking about comparisons, I mean E-P1 against E-4x0, and frankly, lens extended or not, there's no significant difference in my opinion.  Neither is pocketable, both are eminently "stowable". And all major DSLR companies have similar sized models these days.

I take your point about viewfinders and lenses, but then, really, what IS the point ?  Seems to me that in many typical "tourist shot" cases the E-P1 is actually less capable than the average higher end P&S, and the P&S will have a far greater zoom range.

I can understand a lot of people talking themselves into believing that the E-P1 is the "affordable digital range finder" or whatever, but clearly it's really an E-620 with top sawn off and painted silver.

I'm totally with Michael on this one - Olympus snatches defeat from the jaws of victory yet again.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2009, 05:37:11 pm by drm »
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BJL

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« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2009, 02:16:05 pm »

Quote from: drm
Well I dunno. I've yet to see an E-P1 in the wild, and I live in a highly frequented tourist zone ... not much evidence there for an overriding "good little woman with her itsy-bitsy pink camera syndrome".

But when I'm talking about comparisons, I mean E-P1 against E-4x0, and frankly, lens extended or not, there's no significant difference in my opinion.  Neither is pocketable, both are eminently "stowable".

Dave,

    the E-P1 is doing very well in the Amazon list of top selling DSLR's: http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/elect...ref=pd_ts_e_nav
For some weeks now, it has been between 10 and 16 and the best selling from any brand other than Canon and Nikon. And this despite being in and out of stock at US dealers, due to supply not keeping up with demand. Your failure to have yet seen a camera that has only been on the market for about a month does not show much: even if it sales were a stunning 10% of all DSLR sales (doubling all of Olympus DSLR market share in recent years), the E-P1 would so far only account for less than one in a thousand of all cameras sold in the last year, and an even smaller fraction of cameras in use.

I am not sure what your "pink camera" comment is about; I was simply pointing out that "stowability" (great description!) is important for many camera buyers, perhaps women more so than men, in part due to the great likelihood of them carrying their stuff in a bag rather than in their pants pockets. And the difference in depth between the E-P1 and the E-450 (both with zoom) is quite substantial in that respect, which is potentially quite significant for stowability. See the photo here: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympusep1/

Of course, that E-450 is the smallest DSLR+zoom combo out there; a size/depth comparison to any of the market dominating APS-C DSLRs with their 18-55 standard zooms would be even more one-sided.
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Bill VN

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« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2009, 12:59:54 am »

Quote from: michael
No, I doubt it.

The GRIII doesn't really interest me. It's simply an evolution of the previous models with not much to make it exciting. Fixed lens (though fast), small sensor and no video.

To my mind the Panasonic Lumix ZS3 (TZ7) is the sweet spot for pocket cameras at the moment. The E-P1 is another Olympus "could-have-been" with substandard autofocus, no viewfinder and it's not even that much smaller than the GH1, which is a far superior camera in every way.

I'm hoping that Panasonic has a new small 4/3 sensor camera before the end of the year.

Michael

Mike,

Partially due to your recommendations, I have been using the Panasonic Lumix ZS3 (TZ7) for a while. Since you may have the ear of some of the manufacturers, I am very frustrated that there are no hyperfocal options with all of the point-and-shoots I have used: Fujifilm, Nikon or Panasonic. You mentioned in one of your essays the old standard for portability, the Rollei 35, which required "zone" focusing. It would be great if these new cameras had a "zone" focus setting, which would lock the lens into a hyper-focal distance dependent on the F/stop chosen. Maybe, you could start a petition. Frankly, I am tired of trying to take landscape shots with cameras whose autofocus hunts all of the time, and to be blunt, old Kodak folders did a better job of focusing.

Thanks,

Bill V.
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Ben Rubinstein

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« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2009, 04:39:16 am »

No one going to mention the new G11 and S90?
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barryfitzgerald

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« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2009, 12:03:26 pm »

Shocking that Canon reduced the megapixels for the new camera! Great, seems the message sinks in. S90 looks too dated already, esp for those who want HD video, (and even I might like that for a non DSLR)

EU prices are bad though, not sure what Canon are on ;-)
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BJL

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« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2009, 12:04:18 pm »

Quote from: pom
No one going to mention the new G11 and S90?
Check out this thread: http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=37045
It seems that Canon has joined Michael Reichmann (essay on 12MP being enough for most), Panasonic (LX3, of "only" 10MP), Olympus (interview saying that 12MP is enough for most needs of most photographers, so that increasing pixel counts will be a lower priority in Four Thirds from now on) and Nikon (12MP max in all its DSLRs until you get to the D3X) in recognizing that a lot of photographers do not want the extreme pixel counts of many recent products, and prefer camera designers to concentrate on improvements in other aspects of image quality, like avoiding blown highlights.

Will there be an EOS-60D with only 12 MP?!
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