Phase Acquires Leaf

[mcfoto]

Now Its a 2 player field? Looks like the Hy6 is gone? With Phase buying Leaf that is a bonus. Where Phase does make money is selling C1 SW to Canon & Nikon users @ $400 USD a pop.

Denis

[mcfoto]

deleted

[patrickfransdesmet]

or new company name:
Mamiya Leaf Phase

MALEAPHANT ...

[michael]

Voltman,

Your posting is so full of misinformation that I feel compelled to comment on at least a few of the points.

- Kodak purchased Creo ("Leaf") in 2005 for nearly $1B USD.  

This is only partially true. Kodak bought Creo. Period. Leaf was a tiny appendage that they were hardly aware of. In fact I happened to be at the Kodak sensor division in Rochester NY for a meeting the day that the announcement was made, and after a coffee break that morning one of the executives came back in and said that he'd just learn that they'd bought Creo. When I commented that Leaf was a subsidiary of Creo everyone laughed at the fact that the top brass probably hadn't realized that they were buying a company that used Dalsa sensors.

- Leaf management team likely didn't like the other suitors e.g. Sony, Nikon, and Canon, giving them the leverage to organize a walkout.

Kodak has been trying to sell Leaf for a couple of years. If someone other than Phase One had come along you can rest assured that offers would have been entertained.

- Along comes Phase One, reminded by Leaf management of what would happen if the Leaf team screwed off to one of the big boys (so now where will Sony, Nikon, or Canon get the technology to deprecate existing lines? or do they stick with FF 35mm equivalent lines and choke on their small mounts and optics?)

Nonsense. Nothing more. No further comment needed.

- Buckets of money and royalty agreements ensue - all happy that the MF digital world is safe from control by one of the bigger players.  All 100 Phase One employees, 150 Mamiya employees, and 25 from Leaf team stay employed - for now.  Kodak gets royalties from its IP moving forward and saves face as it best can with the shareholders. Phase One doesn't face competition so quickly from Sony, Nikon, and Canon. Everyone is happy about the business except the consumers and Sinar, who Phase One is determined to burden as the lone supporter of the AFI system in a good spirit of competitive non-competition. Adios to 6x6 digital.

More rubbish. The AFi / Hy6 is going away because Franke and Heideke is in the equivalent of Chapter 11. There are other issues between them and Kodak / Leaf, but these are not yet public. Nothing that you have conjectured is even close to reality.

- The Mamiya thing was certainly more friendly but got a bit odd in the end with Mamiya offering Leaf solutions, all the while outsourcing their own backs to Phase One in the end.  Could a Leaf / Mamiya deal inked a year ago played a part in forcing Phase One's hand? Or perhaps simply a one night stand to force the wedding?

Are you aware that the MAC group is the US distributor of both Leaf and Mamiya and that this is the reason for the bundling? This relationship exists nowhere else in the world other than the US. "Outsourcing"?!!

I know that web forums like this can be a free-for-all of opinion, misinformation and even disinformation, but at least a minimal level of verisimilitude is required here.

Michael

[Khun_K]

And gentleman, what about Hasselblad?  It is interesting to see how this developed and how quickly it will develop.  

Brgds/K

Voltman,

Your posting is so full of misinformation that I feel compelled to comment on at least a few of the points.

- Kodak purchased Creo ("Leaf") in 2005 for nearly $1B USD.  

This is only partially true. Kodak bought Creo. Period. Leaf was a tiny appendage that they were hardly aware of. In fact I happened to be at the Kodak sensor division in Rochester NY for a meeting the day that the announcement was made, and after a coffee break that morning one of the executives came back in and said that he'd just learn that they'd bought Creo. When I commented that Leaf was a subsidiary of Creo everyone laughed at the fact that the top brass probably hadn't realized that they were buying a company that used Dalsa sensors.

- Leaf management team likely didn't like the other suitors e.g. Sony, Nikon, and Canon, giving them the leverage to organize a walkout.

Kodak has been trying to sell Leaf for a couple of years. If someone other than Phase One had come along you can rest assured that offers would have been entertained.

- Along comes Phase One, reminded by Leaf management of what would happen if the Leaf team screwed off to one of the big boys (so now where will Sony, Nikon, or Canon get the technology to deprecate existing lines? or do they stick with FF 35mm equivalent lines and choke on their small mounts and optics?)

Nonsense. Nothing more. No further comment needed.

- Buckets of money and royalty agreements ensue - all happy that the MF digital world is safe from control by one of the bigger players.  All 100 Phase One employees, 150 Mamiya employees, and 25 from Leaf team stay employed - for now.  Kodak gets royalties from its IP moving forward and saves face as it best can with the shareholders. Phase One doesn't face competition so quickly from Sony, Nikon, and Canon. Everyone is happy about the business except the consumers and Sinar, who Phase One is determined to burden as the lone supporter of the AFI system in a good spirit of competitive non-competition. Adios to 6x6 digital.

More rubbish. The AFi / Hy6 is going away because Franke and Heideke is in the equivalent of Chapter 11. There are other issues between them and Kodak / Leaf, but these are not yet public. Nothing that you have conjectured is even close to reality.

- The Mamiya thing was certainly more friendly but got a bit odd in the end with Mamiya offering Leaf solutions, all the while outsourcing their own backs to Phase One in the end.  Could a Leaf / Mamiya deal inked a year ago played a part in forcing Phase One's hand? Or perhaps simply a one night stand to force the wedding?

Are you aware that the MAC group is the US distributor of both Leaf and Mamiya and that this is the reason for the bundling? This relationship exists nowhere else in the world other than the US. "Outsourcing"?!!

I know that web forums like this can be a free-for-all of opinion, misinformation and even disinformation, but at least a minimal level of verisimilitude is required here.

Michael

[H1/A75 Guy]

I pack the AFI bodies and left them in storage for collectibles.

I'll keep you in mind if I need another AFi body!

David

[gwhitf]

This thing is kinda like an Agatha Christie mystery. It just makes you wonder, "What did Leaf own that justified that $19.95 price tag?"

You know that feeling, when you're kicking thru a dinosaur heap at an old camera store, and see Hasselblad 500C's for like $100, and you think "Wow, that's a good deal, I should buy that", so you do, and then you get it home, and you realize what you've got to do to actually get an image out of the thing, and you think "What was I thinking, buying this thing?". So you put it out in the back yard, and use it to hold the garden gate open, like a doorstop, when you're taking out the trash?

When Phase was in that back room at Leaf, and they were looking down at that same kinda pile, they MUST have come upon at least one jewel, to justify paying the lawyers and the whole mess of buying a company.

Sure wasn't the LCD, because a bigger bad LCD is still a bad LCD, in the end.

Wonder what that jewel was?

[Steve Hendrix]

Michael:

Verisimilitude?

Respect.  


Steve Hendrix
Phase One

[michael]

Watsamata Steve? Ain't ya got no skoolin?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verisimilitude

[Voltman]

Voltman,

Your posting is so full of misinformation that I feel compelled to comment on at least a few of the points.

- Kodak purchased Creo ("Leaf") in 2005 for nearly $1B USD.  

This is only partially true. Kodak bought Creo. Period. Leaf was a tiny appendage that they were hardly aware of. In fact I happened to be at the Kodak sensor division in Rochester NY for a meeting the day that the announcement was made, and after a coffee break that morning one of the executives came back in and said that he'd just learn that they'd bought Creo. When I commented that Leaf was a subsidiary of Creo everyone laughed at the fact that the top brass probably hadn't realized that they were buying a company that used Dalsa sensors.

- Leaf management team likely didn't like the other suitors e.g. Sony, Nikon, and Canon, giving them the leverage to organize a walkout.

Kodak has been trying to sell Leaf for a couple of years. If someone other than Phase One had come along you can rest assured that offers would have been entertained.

- Along comes Phase One, reminded by Leaf management of what would happen if the Leaf team screwed off to one of the big boys (so now where will Sony, Nikon, or Canon get the technology to deprecate existing lines? or do they stick with FF 35mm equivalent lines and choke on their small mounts and optics?)

Nonsense. Nothing more. No further comment needed.

- Buckets of money and royalty agreements ensue - all happy that the MF digital world is safe from control by one of the bigger players.  All 100 Phase One employees, 150 Mamiya employees, and 25 from Leaf team stay employed - for now.  Kodak gets royalties from its IP moving forward and saves face as it best can with the shareholders. Phase One doesn't face competition so quickly from Sony, Nikon, and Canon. Everyone is happy about the business except the consumers and Sinar, who Phase One is determined to burden as the lone supporter of the AFI system in a good spirit of competitive non-competition. Adios to 6x6 digital.

More rubbish. The AFi / Hy6 is going away because Franke and Heideke is in the equivalent of Chapter 11. There are other issues between them and Kodak / Leaf, but these are not yet public. Nothing that you have conjectured is even close to reality.

- The Mamiya thing was certainly more friendly but got a bit odd in the end with Mamiya offering Leaf solutions, all the while outsourcing their own backs to Phase One in the end.  Could a Leaf / Mamiya deal inked a year ago played a part in forcing Phase One's hand? Or perhaps simply a one night stand to force the wedding?

Are you aware that the MAC group is the US distributor of both Leaf and Mamiya and that this is the reason for the bundling? This relationship exists nowhere else in the world other than the US. "Outsourcing"?!!

I know that web forums like this can be a free-for-all of opinion, misinformation and even disinformation, but at least a minimal level of verisimilitude is required here.

Michael

Michael,

I think you may have missed the first part of my post where I said "...I basically came to the conjecture ..." ?? -)

--Brett

[michael]

This thing is kinda like an Agatha Christie mystery. It just makes you wonder, "What did Leaf own that justified that $19.95 price tag?"

When Phase was in that back room at Leaf, and they were looking down at that same kinda pile, they MUST have come upon at least one jewel, to justify paying the lawyers and the whole mess of buying a company.

Sure wasn't the LCD, because a bigger bad LCD is still a bad LCD, in the end.

Wonder what that jewel was?

I asked this question of Phase's CEO when I interviewed him by phone yesterday and his answer was that Leaf is one of the oldest company's in the MF back business and has a considerable amount of IP that's worth having and melding with what Phase already has. In combination, their IP covers a lot of ground, and though there's obviously some overlap, there was considerable value at Leaf.

There are also people that are a tremendous asset. There just aren't that many highly experienced engineers in their field with state-of-the-art experience, such as those within Leaf and Phase. To add a few more along with the IP and a competent management staff, unfettered by a large corporation's neglect (my words, not his) is definitely worthwhile; especially for "$19.95".  

Michael

[bcooter]

is definitely worthwhile; especially for "$19.95".  

Michael

Leaf should have advertised on craig's list.


BC

[gkroeger]

Ahhh... now I get it.  This IS a remake of that other film.

Same plot: expensive electronic product with low volume, high development costs (hardware and software) and expensive sales model against large volume commodity product that is less capable but getting more powerful every day.

And this is the point in the film where DEC buys Apollo to compete with Sun.  If I recall, everybody dies at the end.

[jimgolden]

and no upgrade path?

what upgrade path? - it already is gone -  if P1 is promising an upgrade path how can you trust them?

fleabay?!?

[antonyoung]

So, what's the new name going to be?

Pheaf

Lase

Phameaf

Lephamiya

Lease

PHASE TWO. Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated.

[Leonardo Barreto]

Can someone make an adapter Rollei-mount-to-Mamiya-645AND fully leaf shutter operational?? I am sure that there are a lot of frustrated photographers out there that have invested large amounts of resources in Rollei optics that do not want to see them going to paper weight duties.

Or for the Hasselblad mount. I don't know if it is technically possible, and if Hasselblad or Mamiya are interested in the idea since it would mean competition to their own lines of lenses.

[jing q]

Phase bought into Leaf because Leaf makes a good product. Leaf has years of experience in working with Dalsa chips, a large LCD touchscreen, great color and innovative IP. Now, if photographers buy either Phase or Leaf backs, Phase wins. In these tough times, when DSLRs are getting packed with more pixels, you have to have a platform that is reasonably priced. The leaf shutter in Hasselblad lenses are useful for some photographers but it prices them so high that their system become way too expensive for the guy trying to make the leap to medium format. Try making a list of the most commonly used lenses of the two systems. at the end of the day, you will have a lot less money in your pocket is you bought Hasselblad.

I don't think Haselblad is the winner here.

hasselblad was the first to drop their prices. And the used lenses are pretty much a steal if you know what you want and stick to it. great deals can be had on ebay or KEH

ultimately Phase One ends up having gotten a competitor's IP and product line...but they still have a crappy camera.
Makes me glad I got that H3d for a steal..a camera system that actually works out of the box, with software that connects out of the box, with leaf shutters.

[AlanG]

Well there are always used 6x6 SLR systems that could be fitted with digital backs. So what if they don't have all of the bells and whistles of an H3?

[Leonardo Barreto]

I was LoLoud when I saw that photo Alan.

This translation from the German by some robot is also funny ...

A look back: When the Hy6 to photokina 2006 was presented, she wanted to appear to any medium-format manufacturers have.  And there was great confusion about this painting.  Jenoptik). Leica Sinar wanted to take over (what else but not worked, the company finally landed at Jenoptik).  in turn, initially available exclusively at Sinar booth presented surfaced during the fair in several places with different types of designations: Hy6 Rolleiflex, Sinar Hy6, Leaf Afi. It seemed the camera system of the future. Mamiya und auch Phase One . Mamiya and Phase One was fairly stupid since then: a future without a camera system and also sold, with the other backs, but without cameras.. And Hasselblad began its system to foreign backs off.  The signs were good for a new, modern and open medium format system.
 The - apparent - losers of the past are now better off: in particular Phase One makes the medium format wide.

The once great Rollei is filleted and parts verspeist.  There remain the Rollei GmbH and its buildings in the Salzdahlumer road, which are rented out, and their patents and trademark license rights, which can be sold.

 And there remain Franke & Heidecke with largely empty-handed, and the question of what to do next.

(thoMas) (Thomas) http://www.photoscala.de/Artikel/Bei-Frank...ern-die-Lichter

I think that what they want they probably want to say is that at the time when Hasselblad closed their system "Hasselblad began its system to foreign backs off. .." Phase One was left out of that best seller platform, so there was the need for a Hy6 ...

Well there are always used 6x6 SLR systems that could be fitted with digital backs. So what if they don't have all of the bells and whistles of an H3?

[tho_mas]

Now that so much competence is assembled at Phase maybe someone will strike the idea to write the new firmwares for the P45, P30 and P21 so that we can tether to Windows Vista.