No viewfinder - how do eyeglass wears use screen

[DaveLon]

With the Olympus Pen E-P1 having only a screen and, yes I know, an optional 17 mm viewfinder, I am looking for help on how to survive in a viewfinderless world.

I need glasses for reading - +3 dopters - which can usually be adapted for in the viewfinder so on my Canon DSLRs it is not an issue.

With the screen only, I need glasses to see the image and the screen info.

So how do you cope with

1) seeing the screen as you move from inside to outside?

2) focus and framing on the screen and perhaps on a fixed screen so the camera cannot be held at the waist.

3) seeing the screen in bright sunlight - sunglasses change the colours on the screen (don't they?)

4) just seeing the screen with or without glasses. Ideally I would prefer not to have to have my reading glasses on all the time.

Any advice and guidance appreciated.

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/style_...fault/mellow.gi

[situgrrl]

1 - Depends on the quality of the screen and the ease of controlling it's brightness.  You can get accessory shades which help.

2 - Framing - what is shown on the screen is TTL and therefore in theory, it's the same as framing an SLR.  In practice, I'm no great fan of TTL viewfinders, preferring to see a bit around the edges so that I can fine tune composition.  Screens, I find, put one at something of a disconnect to the picture and therefore framing takes longer.  It's personal taste but many better photographers than I manage so I hardly feel it my place to bitch too hard.  As an aside, I'm hoping olympus will release another clip on vf, possibly like a russian turret one to work with the zoom at 14, 17,20/25, 35 and 42mm.  Cat's chance I hell I suspect, at least in the near future, but hope costs little.

2b - Focussing.  My only experience with live view mf was on a Panasonic FZ50.  Took a few minutes to get used to but I found it a deal better than MFing an APS DSLR - though not a quick method.  Growing up with MF SLRs with split screens and microprisms, it was a luxury to be able to make focus decisions again.  I was hoping the lenses would have a DOF scale for zone focus......please olympus?  

3 - Depends on your sunglasses.  Get some with grey neutral density lenses if you want to be sure.  Olympus AWB on their E1 blew everything else I've used to this day out of the water.  That camera was released how many years ago for them to have improved it yet further?  More important is glare.  Depends on the screen - accessory hoods help though can look silly.

4 - that's your eyesight. not mine - I don't think any of us except you are able to comment!

[stever]

this defeats some of the purpose of a compact camera (but so does the clip-on viewfinder), but you can use a hoodloop.  some people have devised ways of sticking it to the screen with velcro on the side.  i've made a bracket that clamps on to the L-bracket of my 5D2, but the bracket could just as well be screwed into the tipod hole

there are an explosion of attachments to view the screen on the 5D2 for video and this may well happen with the ep-1 as well

[stever]

sorry, Hoodloupe

[Rob C]

Growing up with MF SLRs with split screens and microprisms, it was a luxury to be able to make focus decisions again.

How come - no stop-down on your MF SLR? Or am I reading this back to front?
 
Rob C

[250swb]

For instance with the E-P1 you can zoom in on the focus area and use MF, or just rely in AF.

But pretty well the first real camera I used was 5"x4" format, and seeing things back to front and upside down on a dark screen made me pre-visualise the image I was going to get, and simply use the screen/viewfinder to frame the photograph and focus it.  Pre-visualisation carried on through all other cameras thereafter, I know what its going to look like as a print, so the actual detail within the frame is less important. I'm not entirely sure about only having an LCD screen on a camera, but so long as I know where the edges of the frame are in relation to the subject I'm fairly happy. The rest I know anyway, what the DOF effect will be, where to focus, etc. And the fine tuning you'd do in review mode like any other digital camera.

Steve

[situgrrl]

Rob - my point was simply that I never managed to mf a small sensor DSLR.  The lv focussing is on th one hand wierd because you are somehow a step removed by a video screen - but once you have the hang of that, it's amazingly accurate as long as the light is good enough.

[Rob C]

Rob - my point was simply that I never managed to mf a small sensor DSLR.  The lv focussing is on th one hand wierd because you are somehow a step removed by a video screen - but once you have the hang of that, it's amazingly accurate as long as the light is good enough.

I understand the problem with the small sensor dslr - that´s where I live with the D200. At first, I thought it was perfectly okay and, in practice, seemed to be. After some time, however, and the fateful moment when out of curiosity I elected to hold my F3 to my eye again, I was stunned with how huge the F3 made life look. That made me painfully aware of limitations I had ignored but could no longer deny because my eyesight is starting to be less than good at times.

Post retirement I cut my gear down considerably and for some time owned but three lenses for the 35mm format: 24mm, 50mm and 135mm, all manual focus and all quite good except for the 2.8/135 which I doubt is as good as the 3.5/135 it replaced, though still good enough, to use that slight condemnation. Then I bought my first autofocus and zoom - which lasted a very short time and proved to me why I had never bought a zoom all my pro days. Fortunately, I have been able to exchange it for a 2.8/180 which though autofocus, allows totally manual use, should I wish it, which I guess I do.

The point of this is not to list a short list, but to say that this focussing thing depends on factors beyond simply size of screen: that 180mm focusses beautifully, both manually and a/f. Were the other three lenses as simple to focus, life would indeed have a happy glow when shooting! I have added a magnifier to the eyepiece and though not hugely magnifying, it makes an appreciable difference for me and still covers the sides and edges well enough to know what´s going on there!

Hope the eyesight lasts as long as I need it!

Rob C

[John Camp]

For the OP --

You've put your finger on one of the problems with cameras using the back LCD to focus - it's tough for people with older eyes. I have a Leica D-Lux 3 which works that way, and I seldom use it anymore. The problem is that, unlike the case with a real viewfinder, you have two very different focusing situations at the same time. One (the LCD) is quite close, no further away than the end of your arms. The other one may be quite distant (the subject.) That's why when you see pictures of older people using P&S cameras, they often have the camera held at arm's length, with their heads tilted way back -- they're looking through the bottom of their bifocals. This can be really tiring and annoying after a while, can make it difficult to focus, hard to read screen settings, etc. I won't be buying the new Olympus for that reason, though I still have hopes for the next version of the camera, which supposedly will have an electronic VF.

[Dale_Cotton2]

One thing to bear in mind is that the EP-1's LCD is visible from extreme angles without the usual colour inversions. A bifocal user could hold the camera below eye level and take in both the actual scene as well as the LCD. And I assume one could get a bifocal perscription just for photographic use that's essentially clear glass (20/20) in the upper area but +3 diopter below.

If the prescription is right, I'd think there should then be no need to hold it out at arm's length. I've been holding my LX1 with my elbows against my side for stability and peering down at the screen through my (myopia) bifocals for years now without tilting the camera.

Not saying this is ideal; just suggesting the possibility.