20D - B&W mode and RAW simultaneously?

[Alberio]

[font color=\'#000000\']Good question, and an excellent idea! Unfortunately, I think B&W is only available in JPG mode, but I don't have a 20D so I'll shut up now and leave the final word for Michael.[/font]

[dringoen]

[font color=\'#000000\']In raw mode, the 20D can store both the raw .CR2 file, and a .JPG. So, in the scenario I'm asking about, the camera would store the raw file same as always, but render the .JPG as a black and white image, and use that .JPG as the LCD display image. This is definitely possible technically, it just depends where in the firmware Canon chose to implement this feature. I'm hoping they chose to do it as a post-processing feature like white balance, which can be used on both raw captures and jpeg-only captures. (what you see on the LCD and the basis for the histogram on Canon cameras is based on what gets written to the .JPG. The Raw file is unaffected by any of those settings, except that the EXIF information describing them is written in the raw file.)


Dave[/font]

[font color=\'#000000\']That's about all it's good for – preview. It is an 8 bit "flattened" JPG, and therefore not much can be done with it afterward. I see it as more of a gimmic than a truely useful feature.

But I suppose some people will enjoy it.

Michael[/font]

[gmitchel]

[font color=\'#000000\']That's about all it's good for – preview. It is an 8 bit "flattened" JPG, and therefore not much can be done with it afterward. I see it as more of a gimmic than a truely useful feature.

But I suppose some people will enjoy it.

Michael[/font]

[font color=\'#000000\']I agree with you, Micahel.

One of the advantages of using PS for B&W conversion is that *YOU* control the conversion. If you want to emulate a red filter and darken the sky, you have lots of options.

With B&W film, you pop on a red filter. With the 20D, you ask the camera to simulate a red filter. With PS, you decide not only if you want a red filter effect but also which red to use for the filter. Darken the sky a bit. Darken it a lot. Etc.

You cannot simulate a polarizer in PS. Oh, you can darken sky. Knock down highlights. But the full polarizer effect -- no. Most other filters, not only can you simulate them in PS, you can do so much more with them that we could with film.

I agree that some will like the B&W mode. Folks who are intimidated by B&W conversion in PS or who really need a quick B&W head shot to DPOF -- passport photos, publicity photos, etc. Most of us will probably never use the B&W or toning features. For us, they're gimmicks.

Cheers,

Mitch[/font]

[dringoen]

[font color=\'#000000\']Michael,

I'm curious whether the new B&W mode can be used simultaneously with Raw mode. The reason I'm asking is I'm intrigued with the possibility of previsualizing the image in black and white on the camera LCD, while preserving all the raw processing options (including going back to color) for later.

Thanks,
Dave Ringoen[/font]

[gtal]

[font color=\'#000000\']If I understand it correctly, raw is just the digital readings from the exposed CCD which means it contains color information. Turning it into B&W will require processing of the image data which by definition is not raw capture.

Guy[/font]

[dringoen]

[font color=\'#000000\']I found out from a new 20D owner at dpreview. Here's his answer:

(click here for Ron's post at dpreview)

Ron Purdy wrote:
Yes, you can set it to RAW and either use the B&W jpeg or process it as color. Very usefull!

Dave Ringoen wrote:
> Ron,
>
> Great example pictures! Thanks so much!
>
> On the 20D, can you set the B&W mode on the camera and still
> capture Raw files (with the color in them, of course) and
> presumably the accompanying JPEGs in B&W (if saving raw+JPEG)?
>
> That seems like it would be a great feature for B&W
> previsualization, yet would preserve post-processing options.
>
> Dave

That's great news! What a helpful previsualization feature![/font]

[CrazyC]

[font color=\'#000000\']I think it is a great tool for the less visually skilled among us who cannot tell if a scene looks great in BW by just looking at it.

I would appreciate this feature very much, but am simply not willing to spend so much money on a camera - hey, I'm just a poor pupil after all  :cool:[/font]

[Northern Lights]

[font color=\'#000000\']The 20D does write the black and white settings into the raw file, so when you view the raw it is black and white and set to your parameters.  In the canon viewer, you simply click color if you wish to restore the file, much as you click black and white to see a color file that way.

The above information about the black and white file only being a low res 8-bit jpeg is thus incorrect.

And I am giving this info based on my own 20D pics.  This is one of the features I bought it for.[/font]