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Author Topic: New Sony lenses announced. Weird stuff....  (Read 7371 times)

lattiboy

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New Sony lenses announced. Weird stuff....
« on: March 03, 2009, 02:29:16 am »

« Last Edit: March 03, 2009, 02:32:35 am by lattiboy »
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Yakim Peled

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« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2009, 08:36:34 am »

I liked the relative small size of the 400/4.5. I also like the idea of another serious DSLR manufacture.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2009, 08:39:45 am by Yakim Peled »
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BJL

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« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2009, 12:54:58 pm »

Quote from: lattiboy
 (4)DT 18-55mm F3.5-5.6
Replacement for the oft derided 18-70mm kitlens. Also signals a new APS-C body is not far off.
What was wrong with the 18-70, by the standards of a kit lens? All I know is its wider-than-average zoom range, which made it pair nicely with existing 70-300 zooms in the dominant two zoom kits. Maybe with a DT 55-200 zoom, it is considered better to downsize the standard zoom.

Anyway, four new DT lenses including two primes strongly suggests that Sony does not expect DT ("APS-C") to wither away or be reduced to entry-level only anytime soon.


P. S. I now read at DPReview that these are all just mockups of possible products, not actual announced products:
http://www.dpreview.com/articles/pma2009/Sony/
« Last Edit: March 03, 2009, 06:16:26 pm by BJL »
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douglasf13

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« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2009, 01:13:38 pm »

Quote from: BJL
What was wrong with the 18-70, by the standards of a kit lens? All I know is its wider-than-average zoom range, which made it pair nicely with existing 70-300 zooms in the dominant two zoom kits. Maybe with a DT 55-200 zoom, it is considered better to downsize the standard zoom.

Anyway, four new DT lenses including two primes strongly suggests that Sony does not expect DT ("APS-C") to wither away or be reduced to entry-level only anytime soon.

  The 18-70 killed the A350 in reviews.  It was a good kit lens until 14MP APS-C.
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Let Biogons be Biogons

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« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2009, 04:11:32 pm »

Interestingly, there are no new Sony/Zeiss "ZA" lenses being announced.  There were at least 2 rumoured.  A new $500 Sony "hybrid" camera (the HX1) also is without the Zeiss name on the lens.  Instead there is "G" branding (Sony/Minolta high-end designation) on the lens.  Is the Sony-Zeiss relationship deteriorating or merely being unwound?  What's going on?

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douglasf13

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« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2009, 05:39:54 pm »

Quote from: Let Biogons be Biogons
Interestingly, there are no new Sony/Zeiss "ZA" lenses being announced.  There were at least 2 rumoured.  A new $500 Sony "hybrid" camera (the HX1) also is without the Zeiss name on the lens.  Instead there is "G" branding (Sony/Minolta high-end designation) on the lens.  Is the Sony-Zeiss relationship deteriorating or merely being unwound?  What's going on?

  I don't think so.  I think Sony just needed to address the lower end and telephoto end first.  The ZA 16-35 just became available a few weeks ago.
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Brammers

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« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2009, 05:25:32 am »

It's a sensible release imo - got to remember that although it's the A900 that gets all the attention on the LL forums the vast majorities of Alpha DSLRs, and the reason Sony's number 1 in some countries and a distinct (if distant) 3rd worldwide is because of the A100-A700 range.  

First thing to note is that 4 out of these 6 lenses are going to be seriously cheap.  We've got plastic mounts and micro-motors across these 4 - this is why we've got a new 55-200 - it's got a micromotor in it instead of the old screwdrive.  They could be SSM motors, but I doubt it - Sony's always marketed its SSM lenses before and apparantly adding an SSM motor to a lens requires a re-design - you can't just shovel one in.

50 1.8 makes sense to me for the reasons lattiboy gave - you at the cost of irritating the a900 users you give the APS-C users a significant cost saving.  

It's more of a shame that the 30 macro is APS-C only - could have done with that on FF.  Why's it a macro instead of an f2?  2 birds with one stone - if it's sharp from wide open you won't miss that stop too much, the AF should be ok due to the low weight of glass and the macro capability will appeal.  Could well be 1:2 instead of 1:1 which would boost the walkaroundability even more.

New kit lens - old one was getting panned.  New 55-200 - micro-motor.  Lets sony do a D40 on us - hopefully not too soon though because the lenses are still lacking.

28-75 is disappointing merely due to the micro-motor, a lens like this should get an SSM motor.  Still, it forms a 3-way choice for Sony users.  Sony -> Sigma -> Zeiss - hopefully 3 distinct price brackets with clear advantages each time you go up a rung.  

Super-tele - great.  500/4 sounds sensible - it's long.  

Lack of Zeiss?  Biogons - I think you've spent too long looking for black helicopters.  Sony put out 4 ultra-budget lenses, a mid-range lens and a lens that's squarely in 'G' territory (Sony uses the G brand for their telephotos) and you're concerned that there's no Zeiss?  There's no 24-105/4 G SSM either, maybe this means that the a900 is being abandoned...  Give it a couple more rounds of releases, if there's still no Zeiss you might be on to something.

Good stuff Sony, keep it coming.  Some kind of mid-range portrait prime, 24-105/4 and Zeiss 24/2 before too long please.  And the 400/4.5 could create a cult following if you get it out soon - kind of like a Canon 400/4 DO but with fewer downsides.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2009, 05:26:47 am by Brammers »
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pegelli

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New Sony lenses announced. Weird stuff....
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2009, 08:45:40 am »

I think I've seen some information the long tele is actually a 500/4.5 G SSM

I think this is better than a 400/??, since the IQ of the 300/2.8 + matched APO converter is very good.

Other question: Are we sure the cheaper lenses are micro motors, other than the AF/MF switch I haven't seen an official confirmation yet they're dropping the screw drive on these (but that might be me not looking hard enough)
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pieter, aka pegelli

douglasf13

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« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2009, 06:25:53 pm »

Quote from: pegelli
I think I've seen some information the long tele is actually a 500/4.5 G SSM

I think this is better than a 400/??, since the IQ of the 300/2.8 + matched APO converter is very good.

Other question: Are we sure the cheaper lenses are micro motors, other than the AF/MF switch I haven't seen an official confirmation yet they're dropping the screw drive on these (but that might be me not looking hard enough)

  I've seen no conformation as to whether these are ring or micro-motor.  I read that someone asked a rep at PMA, and they said SSM, but who knows if Sony will brand SSM on everything with a motor in it?  I hope not.  For years, I've seen people complain about screw drive lenses on different Sony forums, and I've tried to explain that in-lens motors aren't necessarily a good thing if it's not a ring motor.  Hopefully, Sony is staying away from the micro-motor junk, but I doubt it.
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Brammers

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« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2009, 02:44:50 am »

Quote from: pegelli
Other question: Are we sure the cheaper lenses are micro motors, other than the AF/MF switch I haven't seen an official confirmation yet they're dropping the screw drive on these (but that might be me not looking hard enough)

AF/MF switch is the clue - we've never had them before except on SSM lenses.  Not confirmed, but the evidence is pointing that way.
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pegelli

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« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2009, 09:04:25 am »

Thanks douglas and Brammers.

I was afraid I had missed something.
I agree the switch is a clue but we'll have to wait a little bit longer before we know if it's screw drive, micro motor or ring motor.

Also agree with your comment about screw drive. I don't have any SSM lenses so it's all screw drive in my bag and except for more noise (audible, not picture) for instance my old heritage Minolta 200/2.8 HS and 80-200/2.8 HS are both extremely accurate and very fast. Even faster than the famous 70-200/2.8 SSM.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2009, 09:05:39 am by pegelli »
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pieter, aka pegelli

aaykay

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« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2009, 08:31:04 pm »

Quote from: pegelli
Even faster than the famous 70-200/2.8 SSM.

Yeah, but glacially slow when compared to the CZ 24-70 f/2.8 SSM's  or the CZ 16-35 f/2.8's focusing speed.    

I believe the 70-200 SSM uses an older version of SSM, unlike the super-fast implementations in the Zeiss lenses.  I just wish my CZ 135 and the CZ 85 also came with SSM, than the body-driven system they are on now.
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ErikKaffehr

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« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2009, 12:21:50 am »

Hi,

I have both SSM and normal lenses and I cannot really say that the SSM is a great advantage, except for noise. I have both the 28-75/2.8 and the 24-75/2.8 ZA and also the 80-200/2.8 and the 70-300/4.5-5.6G.

Best regards
Erik



Quote from: pegelli
Thanks douglas and Brammers.

I was afraid I had missed something.
I agree the switch is a clue but we'll have to wait a little bit longer before we know if it's screw drive, micro motor or ring motor.

Also agree with your comment about screw drive. I don't have any SSM lenses so it's all screw drive in my bag and except for more noise (audible, not picture) for instance my old heritage Minolta 200/2.8 HS and 80-200/2.8 HS are both extremely accurate and very fast. Even faster than the famous 70-200/2.8 SSM.
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pegelli

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« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2009, 02:06:40 am »

Quote from: aaykay
Yeah, but glacially slow when compared to the CZ 24-70 f/2.8 SSM's  or the CZ 16-35 f/2.8's focusing speed.  

For a hobby photographer like me there will always be things to keep dreaming about  

I've never seen or held any of these two new lenses, but that might change in shortly as there is a meeting of Minolta/Sony A-mount photographers planned in Dordrecht (Netherlands) in a week and a half where some of them might be brought by others for testing.  
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pieter, aka pegelli

Brammers

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« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2009, 12:09:09 am »

Quote from: ErikKaffehr
Hi,

I have both SSM and normal lenses and I cannot really say that the SSM is a great advantage, except for noise. I have both the 28-75/2.8 and the 24-75/2.8 ZA and also the 80-200/2.8 and the 70-300/4.5-5.6G.

Best regards
Erik

Full time override.  If you're ever in a situation where AF is struggling and starts to hunt you want the ability to just grab the focus ring and get it back to where it needs to be.  The AF/MF button under the thumb is a cludge.  

Big AF/MF switches on the lens.  I thought this was irritating until I was out in NE China with temps of -40 and where I couldn't take my gloves off for more than about 5 seconds before my hands were in too much pain to use the camera.  The AF/MF button just doesn't work with thick gloves - the big switches on the lenses do.

C-AF refinement - less brutal power, more subtelty.

Without trying to sound too patronising (and totally failing) screwdrive works just fine for simple needs.  It's when you try to do something closer to the edge that it starts to become an inconvenience.  Yeah it's fast, maybe even faster, but it isn't half as refined.
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pegelli

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« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2009, 02:16:12 am »

Quote from: Brammers
Full time override.  If you're ever in a situation where AF is struggling and starts to hunt you want the ability to just grab the focus ring and get it back to where it needs to be.  The AF/MF button under the thumb is a cludge.  

Big AF/MF switches on the lens.  I thought this was irritating until I was out in NE China with temps of -40 and where I couldn't take my gloves off for more than about 5 seconds before my hands were in too much pain to use the camera.  The AF/MF button just doesn't work with thick gloves - the big switches on the lenses do.

C-AF refinement - less brutal power, more subtelty.

Without trying to sound too patronising (and totally failing) screwdrive works just fine for simple needs.  It's when you try to do something closer to the edge that it starts to become an inconvenience.  Yeah it's fast, maybe even faster, but it isn't half as refined.

I get your point but not everybody has the money to spare for this refinement and secondly there is still no 200/2.8 SSM. However isn't the situation you describe one where the DMF setting can help as well? I've never encountered a -40 with thick gloves and the AF/MF button under my thumb still works with my thin HH gloves I use during colder outings. However if that wouldn't work I'd probably try to see if DMF would work before going to full MF.
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pieter, aka pegelli

Brammers

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« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2009, 10:13:22 am »

Quote from: pegelli
I get your point but not everybody has the money to spare for this refinement and secondly there is still no 200/2.8 SSM. However isn't the situation you describe one where the DMF setting can help as well? I've never encountered a -40 with thick gloves and the AF/MF button under my thumb still works with my thin HH gloves I use during colder outings. However if that wouldn't work I'd probably try to see if DMF would work before going to full MF.

Nope - DMF frees the focus ring when you've locked focus.  If the focus is hunting then it's still locked.  If there is a new 200/2.8 to come it had better be SSM!  And the 2 Zeiss primes at least should have been, as well as the 16-80.  The budget stuff can be forgiven (even though Nikon doesn't use micro-motors), but this new 28-75 probably should be too...
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pegelli

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« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2009, 10:44:20 am »

Quote from: Brammers
Nope - DMF frees the focus ring when you've locked focus.  If the focus is hunting then it's still locked.  If there is a new 200/2.8 to come it had better be SSM!  And the 2 Zeiss primes at least should have been, as well as the 16-80.  The budget stuff can be forgiven (even though Nikon doesn't use micro-motors), but this new 28-75 probably should be too...

OK, should have thought of that. If it doesn't lock AF it doesn't free the focus ring  

I'd like more SSM lenses as well, even though I'd probably be hard pressed to justify upgrading for my hobby use. On the other hand the more "complete" the system gets the more chances are that it will continue to live and prosper  
« Last Edit: March 13, 2009, 10:47:40 am by pegelli »
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pieter, aka pegelli

aaykay

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« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2009, 11:36:57 am »

Quote from: pegelli
I'd like more SSM lenses as well, even though I'd probably be hard pressed to justify upgrading for my hobby use. On the other hand the more "complete" the system gets the more chances are that it will continue to live and prosper  

It is only when one starts using ring-USM or SSM extensively that one realizes how much kludgy and primitive is the screw-drive AF.  Sony should, as soon as possible, eliminate the screw-drive from all of the premium lenses and relegate it solely to the lowest-end kit lenses (if they cannot avoid it entirely).  

Sony is definitely smart enough and I doubt any future premium product would appear with last century's kludgy screw-drive AF.
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Yakim Peled

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« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2009, 02:38:54 am »

Quote from: aaykay
It is only when one starts using ring-USM or SSM extensively that one realizes how much kludgy and primitive is the screw-drive AF.  Sony should, as soon as possible, eliminate the screw-drive from all of the premium lenses and relegate it solely to the lowest-end kit lenses (if they cannot avoid it entirely).  

Sony is definitely smart enough and I doubt any future premium product would appear with last century's kludgy screw-drive AF.

I can't agree more. A few years back, when I switched to digi, I hesitated a lot if to stay in Canon or switch to Minolta with the fabulous 7D. After a few months of pondering I decided to stay in Canon for this very reason: Abundance of ring-USM in the system.

I simply can't understand why Sony released the 135/1.8 without SSM.

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